Leah & Dr. Willow: Don't File for Divorce Yet - Could Your Hormones Be Wrecking Your Relationship? | #180

Tantric sex educators Leah Piper and Dr. Willow Brown pull back the curtain on the trending phenomenon now being called 'meno divorce' — the wave of women in midlife who are initiating divorce at the exact moment their hormones shift. But this episode goes far beyond statistics. It's an honest, shame-free exploration of why this happens, what it means, and how couples can use this pivotal transition to actually deepen their connection.

EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS

• Why divorce rates spike for women aged 45–55 — and the real hormonal reason behind it
• How your estrogen and progesterone levels directly affect your tolerance in relationships
• The 4 hormonal seasons of your cycle — and how to track them in menopause using the moon
• Why adrenal health is the missing piece most women never hear about
• How tantric practices can reset — or bring honest clarity to — your relationship
• Evidence-based solutions: bioidentical HRT, herbs, peptides, and lifestyle shifts that actually work

EPISODE LINKS AND THE VIDEO VERSION CAN BE FOUND HERE

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Transcript

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Willow: 0:59

Hey everyone. Welcome to the Sex Reimagined podcast. Did you know that 73% of women blame menopause for the breakdown of their marriage? Nearly three out of four divorcing women say menopause played a central role in ending their relationship, and yet nobody's really talking about this. Today, we're talking about it on our show, sex Reimagined. I'm Dr. Willow Brown and I'm here with the one and only Leah Piper. So tune in, turn on, and fall in love with us as we discuss perimenopause today and stay until the very end because we're gonna tell you about an amazing free gift, which is Qigong for perimenopause.

Announcer: 1:38

Welcome to the Sex Reimagined Podcast, where sex is shame-free and pleasure forward. Let's get into the show.

Leah: 1:47

I never knew this, that men live longer when they're married and women live longer when they are single.

Willow: 1:55

I know it's amazing and now we're looking at like divorce rates are, you know, 70% of them are happening while women are going through peri or the middle of, of menopause. and it, you know, that's, it's because these hormones are declining in a woman's body. And even if she gets on HRT, I think the endogenous hormones and the hormone replacement therapy do act just a smidge differently in your body. But the capacity that a woman once had when she was younger, before perimenopause sets in is diminished. Like she's no longer okay with the things that she used to be okay with. There's a lot of enduring that goes on during marriage as any married person will tell you. And, the ability to endure diminishes due to hormones.

Leah: 2:44

Right. I was gonna say, my understanding is the relationship between progesterone and estrogen. When you are fertile, you are a little more accommodating, right? You have this vessel that may be carrying life, and so it is a natural instinct to be more accommodating, and then you start to go through menopause and perimenopause and those. Levels drop and all sorts of things happen. One, you're not as accommodating. Your sex drive isn't what it used to be. Sex is often painful. We'll go deeper into those symptoms, but what an interesting correlation to the fact that women and initiate divorce more than men. I think that's throughout, but I think it gets even higher during, uh, menopause statistically.

Willow: 3:31

Yeah, it definitely does. I mean, this is, you know, there's studies done in the uk, there's studies done in America, and we're just really seeing, yeah, mostly they're initiated by women between the ages of like 45 to 55, which is that exact window of huge life transformation because everything that once was is no longer. And you have to be able to, um, be, uh, really tuned into yourself during this transitional phase. When we're in our fertility years, meaning we're still having a menstrual cycle that, that half of the month we've got estrogen dominance, right? That first bit of the, from your cycle to the time that you ovulate, estrogen is the higher hormone and estrogen is the hormone that makes you wanna go out and connect and talk to people and get creative projects done. And you have more energy. It's more of a, um, yang hormone if, if you wanna look at it through the lens of Chinese medicine. So you know that hormone helps. You to, to sort of project your energy out. And then after ovulation, you go into your luteal phase, and that is when your, uh, progesterone is higher, and that's the hormone that makes you wanna turn inward, be more, um, calm, cool, collective, little more reclusive, do some more journaling, drinking tea, you know, that kind of thing. So, ha half the month we're, we're putting our sexes on and going out to the, you know, to the see the people and then the other half the month we're putting our jammies on and we're hanging out inside the house. And so that is one of the reasons I think it's so crucial for women to really understand the ebb and flow of their hormones because it absolutely 100% relates to the ebb and flow of their sexual drive, their emotional capacity, um, what kind of sex they wanna have. You know, there's gonna be like, let's get it on Fast and furious. Let's have a quickie at one point in the cycle. And the other point in the cycle is gonna be like, I need a lot of foreplay. Like I need about an hour of foreplay. Be before I'm gonna be ready to open. And so not only is this such incredible important information for women to understand. For men to understand as well. And that's one thing that I've long since longed to do is like teach a group of men about women's cycles so that they are actually not only reading for their own benefit, but supporting their partners for their partner's benefit. And that's like the real attunement that creates a union that's gonna last a long time.

Leah: 6:10

Yeah, I think when you consider all the generations where this has just been kept silent. For generations, menopause was like a change that nobody talked about, and women just suffered quietly. Their marriages have crumbled. The legal system, the medical system, and their own partners had no idea what was actually happening. And I think about even my mom's generation. There was really very little hormone support to help regulate, um, the nervous system. So that, I mean, the mood swings that happen, the brain fog that happens, the fact that you wake up in the middle of the night and you can't fall back to sleep, there's so many symptoms that dysregulate you. Um, and then you've got the sex situation. Where I can't tell you how many stories of women that I've been in contact with who just don't wanna have sex anymore. They believe it is done and over, they could care less. And there's, I think, two things happening there. Not only like the thing like lubrication changes and the tissue changes, desire and libido changes. Um, but there's that inward focus where there's an attitude that arises with the drop of these hormones that goes, you know what? I have sacrificed for everybody in my life at this time. Now it's about me. And if you don't like it, there's the door. Um, and I kind of feel like that's kind of what it comes down to. It's like, I don't gotta put up with it anymore. The kids are out of the house. Sometimes that can contribute to what's going on, the sadness of being empty nesters, the depression that can arise from that.

Willow: 7:52

Yeah. However, the couples who, who take the time, take this pause this mental pause. Men are going through it too. They're going through Andro pause, right? There's a pause in their hormones as well. There's a big shift that's happening for them. So it's an opportunity actually to totally reset the relationship. And it's about kind of like letting, you know, moving through and letting go, releasing all the old grievances, forgiving both self and other, forgiving the, um, the structure and the ideology of what a marriage should be, right? Which we could. Point to patriarchy, but we're not gonna go down that rabbit hole. But basically like learning how to come into presence and discover yourself and your partner in a way that, um, like you're looking at it with brand new eyes. You know, we call it like the curious mind or beginner mindset. So I've, I have actually several couples in my practice right now who are in that phase and they're like, oh my God. It was, we were about to get divorced and then we went down the Tantric rabbit hole and we started to learn more about how to be present, how to bring vulnerability forward, how to be in truth with where we're actually at. And they are like, I feel like I'm in a completely different relationship.

Leah: 9:11

I'm really glad you brought it to that because that's been my experience too in my private practice, is that Tantra gives people tools to restructure how they play with intimacy, where they're now meeting each other at a whole new level. And so sexual intimacy ends up being something that is, it's not just filled with more consciousness, but it's like we're meeting each other for the first time, and that's really important, is to be flexible and adaptable enough that you can go through different stages in your relationship where you allow change. Your partner's thoughts, feelings, belief systems, how they feel about their body, what their body's actually going through, whether that's your partner who's struggling with maintaining erections or your, you know, lover is just feeling the, the decline of their sexual expression that is different. They don't recognize it now because it needs to take a new shape and a new form. And I love this opportunity because you get to really reinvent what does sex mean to you now? And I think it's a precious opportunity to start looking outside the box versus going, okay, this is the way I've done sex my whole life. It's penetrative, it's we do this, this, and this, and then it's done. You get to go, well, sex is actually I mean full body massages and you know, remembering how to make out again and bringing a sacred tone to the environment.

Willow: 10:45

Absolutely. I mean tantric practices can absolutely save marriages, and they can also point to the reality that this marriage is done, it's time to move on. You know, and, you know, this whole thing about divorce is happening right during this transitional pivotal point in a, in a woman's body, in her, in her journey as a woman. I think, you know, it also begs the question of like, well, was the marriage really solid to begin with? You know, or did you just get into that because it was the expectation of your family, your society, and you wanted to have a baby and a sense of security? You know, um, so it, it. It really highlights, I feel like it's, it's not just a hormonal thing, right? It's the connection. It's the relationship. What are the protective patterns you guys have been running? How are you being in a ping pong match of just being in your pattern versus like coming back to essence, coming back to your true self and meeting each other face to face and nose to nose and like really being in love. I mean,'cause I think there's this thing about, you know, falling in love with somebody where it's, when you fall in love, quote unquote, you often are falling away from a part of yourself, like a core part of yourself, because you get so oriented to the other and how they make you feel and what they do for you and who they are in your life. And, and so it's this time where we get to come home to like, you know, what is my, my true, authentic core self wanting out of this situation right now? And can I show up in that rather than in my layers of protection?

Leah: 12:32

Now we're just gonna take a pause right now in this episode to remind you if you're enjoying it so far, please hit the subscribe button and follow us. Yeah, because I think it's a mistake. For us to take a look at menopause and then blame it for divorce as if menopause is something to be ashamed of. So now it's the woman's fault because she's having her, you know, it's like, it goes back to like, oh, she's on the rag. Oh, she's

Willow: 13:02

Right, exactly.

Leah: 13:03

it's menopause. You know, it's like, it gives, um, a scapegoat. Uh, and I don't think that's fair. You know my, I had a teacher who once said menopause is just a pause. And, andopause is a pause. It is a precious initiation in life that allows you, if you take it, the invitation to press pause and to consider and, and reflect. Look at my life so far. Look at the things that I've accomplished. Look at the things that I've loved. Look at the things that have brought me pain and grief. Look at the things that I have to look forward to. You know, who am I now? Compared to who I was as a younger person and all the stages of maturity, the inflection points that shape your character and what matters to you. And I think in so doing, you have an opportunity to gain clarity about what you want these next last chapters of your life to look like, to feel like to be expressed by. And so therefore, I think, there's almost a spiritual opportunity to take a bigger picture of, uh, of who you are now. And I think by doing so, you get clarity. I think clarity is one of the most important words that if we are in inquiry, menopause can give us.

Willow: 14:24

Yeah, I mean, everything that you're speaking to in my, in my Chinese medicine brain is going, oh yeah. So this is where I wanna bring in, like one of the things I've been teaching women is to look at their fertility cycle, the. Four weeks of the month. So as those four phases of their monthly cycle as seasons, right? So when they're on their period, they're in a winter season. So period and pause. These are both winter seasons, these are times of recalibration. Who am I Who do I wanna be now? Like where, what is my truth? What is my essence? And this is actually in the cycle of the seasons. It's probably one of the most undervalued seasons. Everyone's like, oh, winter, when is this

Leah: 15:12

Oh fuck. Winter.

Willow: 15:13

this snow gonna be done? Like, fuck winter's lasting forever, you know? And then, and then in seasons in our life too. I mean, I just went through a year and a half long winter of just like, I'd cleared all kinds of shit and now including like, you know, loves of my life full on communities, places that I live, like clearing, huge, huge things, huge clearing. Took a long time. And then I sat in the stillness of now what, for a year and a half, and it was super uncomfortable. It's the reason that it's such an uncomfortable place and pause in life is because, um, it's not valued. You know, what we do value in our society and this yang dominant society is we value productivity. What did you get done? What's your status? What do you have? Who are you in the world? And so, um, but this pause, it's actually the most valuable part of the seasonal flow. Of the monthly cycle and of life. And so, when we actually take the time to go in and hibernate and like regenerate, we're, we're rebuilding not only a spiritual reconnection to spirit, but also we're rebuilding our adrenal glands. And, you know, in perimenopause, one of the things that happens is your ovaries, which have done a lot of the producing of your sex hormones, your estrogen, progesterone. They are taking their final bow. They're exiting the front of the stage. They're moving to the back of the stage, and the adrenals and the gut. The adrenals are the ones who primarily kind of step up to that front of the stage, though they don't take quite the same role that the ovaries took, but they are the ones. And so if somebody is heading into perimenopause with adrenal burnout, adrenal fatigue, already just riddled with anxiety, living at a sympathetic dominant state, which means living in fight or flight all the time. Then they are heading into this pause, this winter phase of life with not a lot of energy to even really be in the winter. So, when a woman's in her fertility years still having a menstrual cycle, she has her winter time when she bleeds. That's her pause every month, so she gets to recalibrate to who she is and what her truth is each month. I'm in that phase today, everyone just. You know, um, so I'm in my winter and I'm just like really trying. There's a been a lot of movement and a lot has happened over the last month, so it's also a time for me to physically clear and cleanse everything that I've processed over the last month. So there's winter, and then we start moving into that week after you bleed, where estrogen is really at its peak. So after winter comes spring. So that's when the energy is starting to rise again. And when that estrogen starts to rise again, it's an opportunity to get out, go out, connect with people, you know, have conversation, do creative projects, and then we ovulate and we see switch gears into the summer phase. That summer phase is all about. Um, okay, now what am I cultivating? You know, I've moved through a creative phase. Now what do I wanna cultivate in this next summer season? Like, how do I wanna show up? How do I wanna shine? What do I wanna radiate? What fruits of my labor do I wanna pick and eat and digest? And then we move to that week right before the period. So that is the fall phase. And this is actually the week that women are, you know, being blamed or she's, oh, her period's coming. She's on the rag, she's cranky, she's got PMS. Her mood is all over the place. And that's because in the fall phase, most women don't actually clear that week of the month, which when we look at the bigger picture of menopause. We can see like, okay, they've been handling, they've been enduring, they've been in this marriage, they've been in this relationship, they've been handling, but they haven't cleared. They haven't cleared in a long fucking time. All of a sudden, their winter hits and they're like I can't do it anymore. They implo, you know, they explode, implode, whatever. And it's time to make a radical shift. And even then, a lot of women will run right into another relationship or run right into something else that makes them feel safe and secure and not take the time to really be in that recalibration point, that winter season.

Leah: 21:03

Yeah, that is so fascinating and I love, the lunar significance to all of it, and that it gives, I think, an interesting creative structure to how we can be intentional with our cycle. Now, I'm in perimenopause. I haven't had a period in I don't know, maybe nine or 10 months. Um, so what does the seasons mean for me? Because even though you're in menopause, you still have a winter season, even if you're not having a period. So I don't know, what are we in this first week of the month? Uh, how does it work when you're in menopause?

Willow: 21:40

When you're in menopause, it's much easier. You just follow the moon in the sky. So we just had a big, full moon. So, and for men too, you know, this is like, we all have these, um, we all are being pulled by the, the, the waters in our bodies. Right? Which in, in esoterically water relates to emotions. So the emotions, the fluids in our body, you know, because we are earthlings and the earth's waters are pulled by the lunar cycles, our body of water is also being pulled by the lunar cycle. So when you're in your, um, still having a period fertility years, you are. Tracking both, right? You're tracking the bigger outer lunar cycle, but then you're also tracking your lunar cycle in your womb, your moon cycle. and so when you're in that almost through, like you're close, you're almost through to the other side of menopause, it's 12 months of no period. Then you're officially in Meno. and that said, you know, some people still will have a bleed here and there after that period of time, but, but yeah, when you stop having the period, then you just follow the moon in the sky. So we just had the full moon. So right now that would've been like ovulation time for you. So now you're in your summer phase. So it's,

Leah: 22:58

Summer or spring. Oh.

Willow: 23:00

summer.

Leah: 23:01

So the full moon would be ovulation, which

Willow: 23:04

Mm-hmm.

Leah: 23:05

Right.

Willow: 23:05

Yes. And the New Moon would be the time of winter darkness. So, so the, the new moon is dark, so think about that as like winter, and then it starts to, it starts to wax from, from new, from darkness. It starts to grow into brightness. It's waxing that spring, and then it's starting to come to its peak. So it's, and then it hits that peak ovulation point. That's the full moon, and then it starts to wane again. Yeah, exactly. And as it

Leah: 23:38

Okay, cool.

Willow: 23:40

Yeah.

Leah: 23:40

All right. So, um, join me, folks out there who are at the sta same stage as me, perimenopause, menopause. You're not having those monthly periods for, uh, a different kind of signal. And this is gonna be easier to track.

Willow: 23:56

If anyone out there is like, wow, this is fascinating. I really wanna learn this more there, there's a, a whole body of work. My entire body of work is this. So I've got an entire program just laid out for specific. Qigong moves that you can do for each one of your phases, whether you're falling the moon in the sky or the moon in your womb. Um, you know, specific yoga practice, specific foods to eat based on the ebb and flow of your hormones at that time. And it's really, um, you know, a delicious way to live your life because then you're living in the way. This is the Taoist piece of it is like you're living. In flow with the natural ebb and flow of what's happening in your body and in the world

Leah: 24:44

And so if pe, if people wanna learn more about living sexology, uh, that being the primary program, yes.

Willow: 24:50

Yeah.

Leah: 24:51

you're referring to, how? How

Willow: 24:52

Yeah. Living sexology. Yeah, I would say go to my website, dr willow brown.com and actually just book a, a free call with me so that we can talk about where you're at and get a little bit more clear.'cause it's a more robust program, takes three months to go through. And, um, and yeah, I wanna just make sure that it's a good match for you and that you're, you know, that you're on board and excited about it. Um, and that said, I got a little free gift for all of you who maybe you're like, well that sounds intriguing. What is Qigong anyway, and how would that make me feel better? So we got a little free gift for you. It's Qigong for perimenopause, and it is, um, a piece of that program. So it's just a little piece taken out of the full three month program that you can start too experience in your bodies and in your tissues. Like if all these women who are reaching for divorce actually reached for Qigong during perimenopause, I wonder how many less divorces would happen because again, there's no room in their system and Qigong really creates more room in your system to be with what is.

Leah: 26:01

I love that. I wanna share, uh, that URL with you. It's a little long, so we'll also have it in the show notes, but it's Dr. Willow Brown coaching.my Kajabi. Kajabi is spelled K-A-J-A-B i.com/. Qigong, which is spelled Q-I-G-O-N-G. And hook yourself up baby. It is free. Um, you know, one of the things I wanna segue into is what are some of the evidence-based solutions, because most of us would just soon not go through an expensive divorce. Thank you very much. We've dedicated years, maybe decades to this partner. We've got family and finances and everything is interwoven and there's a lot of pain and stress, um, frustration, anger that goes into divorce. It doesn't just hurt the two people who are divorcing. It affects the extended family. Friends have to pick a side. There's all sorts of casualties when it comes to breakups, and I do believe, that it's worth. Looking at some interventions, both, um, medically and spiritually and Tantric to see what can shift and change, uh, so that you are even better than before. you know, one research paper said that studies show that couples who do, hormone replace therapy together, both of you, can reduce divorce rates by up to 50%. That's a, that's amazing.

Willow: 27:36

huge. That's huge. Yeah. So I mean, hormones are a huge part of it. Like that evidence right there, points to hormones are a huge part of it. There are so many layers to it, but yes, because hormones are little messengers that run up and down your blood extreme right. And they tell different parts of your body, different glands in your body to function in different ways. And so if there's a a, um, if they're being diminished right, due to just natural aging, then they're not telling these glands in your brain to produce serotonin, to produce, you know, the happy hormone to produce melatonin, the hormone that helps. You sleep. Like if you're not getting sleep, you don't have capacity to be with life, you know? And so there's all these, um, we wanna think about hormones also as synonymous to how we feel physically and emotionally.

Leah: 28:31

Yeah, just for instance, hormone replacement, can help deal with symptoms such as, vaginal atrophy, lubrication, the thinning of the lining of the tissue. Your bones and your muscles, that starts to decline. You wanna keep those really healthy, the brain fog that can happen, not just to, not just the sleep that Willow mentioned, and they're safer than ever. You know, there's been bad studies that gave us the opinion that bioidentical hormones or the hormones that are synthetic are somehow bad for you, but for the general population, their health will improve with hormone replacement.

Willow: 29:13

Absolutely. It's better for bone density. It's gonna save your heart for much longer and gonna save your brain, your cognitive function for so much longer. There's a book called Estrogen Matters. If you're somebody who likes to kind of study and be in the know about this stuff, the book, estrogen Matters, I would recommend a lot because it's a compilation of all these different studies and really demystifies the original studies that were really pointing negatively toward hormone replacement therapy. Now, I am a huge proponent of using bioidentical hormones because they're also going to be closer to your biological function. Um, I'm a huge proponent of using herbs in addition to, you know, your hormones, because that's gonna support your system to actually metabolize the bioidenticals that you're taking. Huge proponent of doing peptides in addition because it's going to, again, help you metabolize those hormones in a different way. And, um, we did a great interview with Dr. Rosensweet. Right?

Leah: 30:20

Huh. Yeah, we'll link that. Yeah. He gave great information. Mm-hmm. And Dr. Liz also.

Willow: 30:28

So that particular interview totally turned my whole mind around. It was fantastic. And, um, you know, and he talked a lot about, you know, starting the bioidenticals earlier than actually until, you know, not waiting until you're in the throes of it, and you're like, I've already got, you know, 15 extra pounds around my belly. I can't think at all. Like, what was I just doing? Why did I come in this room? You know, and all like, I'm sweating at night. I can't. Sleep, I'm waking up, you know, all those symptoms that come along with perimenopause to actually get ahead of them and to use bioidenticals more, um, preventatively as well. So that you don't have to go through such a horrific experience in perimenopause. I had a, um, Chinese medicine teacher. Chinese guy and he used to be like, man, my, my grandma and my mother, you know, old school China, like they were living on the land in China. They went through menopause in like one or two years and had no symptoms. Totally fine. Because what were they doing? They were doing Chinese herbs. They were eating organ meats, something that we just don't do anymore. And they their microbiome was a. Amazing because they were living on the land and they were eating from the land. And so, and they weren't using, you know, disinfectants every other time they wiped down the counters. And so all of these things really take down our systems over time. So this is why we're in a point in time where peptides and bioidenticals are actually such a huge blessing because we're already living in such a deficient environment. Especially when it comes to like the most important part of what it is to be a human, which is our microbiome. And nobody even really thinks about that, but it, it's who we are. We are just a series of bacteria, just a big conglomeration of that.

Leah: 32:24

I think too, some interventions that can really help relationships is getting educated because when you've got compassion and understanding to what's happening to your partner biologically, it depersonalizes the conflict and you're able to come to, the table. With a more healthy, happy, not happy, but a different perspective that allows you to be more understanding and have compassion. I also think, you know, we mentioned rebuilding intimacy with new approaches, so you should seek out some psychological support or a coach, specialists, uh,

Willow: 33:02

Or one of us a Dini or a Tanika, you know, we have so much wisdom to, to offer and to help you have more fun again, and to like laugh with each other again and play with each other again.

Leah: 33:17

And find more meaning in your sexual connection. And that might mean, like we said, reshaping what your sexual connection looks like. There's so many ways to give each other pleasure that doesn't have to, always be penetration in a way that's actually painful. There are things that you can do to strengthen that tissue and also just bring more variety and spice to your life. I think, some psychological support regarding optimism and self-esteem, because sometimes body image issues come, like a force as we get older and having to sort of grapple that. Getting some help with being able to acco, you know, find some grace around the fact that we're changing. A lot of women feel invisible as they start to reach these ages, and I'm sure a lot of men do too. So finding a way to have a different perspective and find different meaning and belief systems, I think is really important to, to finding some happiness in this stage. And then lifestyle interventions. I know we're all sick of hearing it, but exercise, and sleep and stress management, to me are the number one thing to start first. It is an all natural, pretty inexpensive way to, as a biohack, it just works. The research

Willow: 34:42

just works. Yeah. You can't go wrong with, with adequate sleep and, you know, I, I wanna put a plugin for water as well. Most people are not getting enough water in their day to day environment, and so I. One of the leading causes of depression is actually dehydration. And so you know, simply drinking enough water could be a game changer for your sleep, for your ability to think more clearly and for your ability to show up to your life with more of yourself.

Leah: 35:13

And then here's the other thing as we start to close for today, and that is not all these doctors are up to date with the latest interventions that your body might respond to the best. I can't tell you how many, regular family doctors, don't have the answers. They put you off. they wanna wait until you start having all these other symptoms. The doctors that we've spoken to, they've all recommended do not wait until you're in perimenopause to start taking a look at interventions, get ahead of the game, and if your doctor doesn't have those answers to those kinds of questions, start to get a couple more opinions. I've had to switch doctors three times to get the type of medical support that felt right, especially with all the researcher that I had been looking at.

Willow: 36:05

A hundred percent, and you're always welcome to book a free consult with me anytime, and I can support you with many, many things along the journey.

Leah: 36:15

So I think in short, you know, women's bodies and women's pleasure and women's transitions have been dismissed minimized and silenced for decades and decades and decades and decades. And we want to be a new voice as re reimagine, especially what pleasure can be for women. So please share this episode, especially with anyone you know who's in midlife. And with that, if you have enjoyed this episode, please comment. Yes, subscribe. We are here

Willow: 36:48

And share

Leah: 36:49

Yes, and we love you.

Willow: 36:51

much love

Announcer: 36:52

Thanks for tuning in. This episode was hosted by Tantric Sex Master Coach and positive psychology facilitator, Leah Piper, as well as by Chinese and Functional Medicine doctor and Taoist Taxology teacher, Dr. Willow Brown. Don't forget your comments, like subscribes and suggestions matter. Let's realize this new world together.