The Sex Reimagined Podcast

Kevin Anthony: What 90% Of Men Get Wrong About Female Desire | #168

• Leah Piper and Dr. Willow Brown • Season 4 • Episode 168

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Why Do Women Stop Wanting Sex? A Deeper Look at Desire and Partnership - Most men arrive at Kevin Anthony's practice with a familiar question: "She used to want sex, but not anymore." What they discover challenges everything they thought they knew about female desire, masculine presence, and what it actually takes to sustain passion in long-term relationships. In this conversation with certified sexologist and Love Lab podcast host Kevin Anthony, we explore the nuanced landscape of sexual connection—from the art of being truly present to the daily practices that maintain erotic energy between partners.

WHAT YOU'LL DISCOVER:

  • Why "showing up" sexually requires more than physical presence
  • The visual stages of female arousal most couples never learn
  • How keeping small promises becomes relationship lubrication
  • When taking sex off the table actually increases desire

LINKS & RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE CAN BE FOUND ON THE WEBSITE - CLICK HERE

LAST 10x LONGER. If you suffer from premature ejaculation, you are not alone, master 5 techniques to cure this stressful & embarrassing issue once and for all. Save 20% Coupon: PODCAST20. 

THE VAGINAL ORGASM MASTERCLASS. Discover how to activate the female Gspot, clitoris, & cervical orgasms. Save 20% Coupon: PODCAST 20

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Willow:

What does it really take for men to master their sexuality and create extraordinary relationships? Such a golden question. And today's guest, Kevin Anthony, has spent over a decade helping men, women, and couples unlock the best sex of their lives. He is a certified sexologist, Tantra counselor and the host of the Love Lab podcast. Such a good name for a podcast, and he's here to reveal the secrets behind stamina, confidence, and true sexual mastery. I'm Dr. Willow Brown. I'm here with my dear. Partner in crime, Leah Piper, and we are the Sex Reimagined podcast. Thank you so much for all your amazing like shares and subscribes. We are truly grateful for your wonderful presence and attention, and we're so thrilled to have Kevin with us today.

Leah:

Uh, yes. We are thrilled to have Kevin. There's so many great things we're gonna dive into, so please tune in. Oh, baby. Get turned on and fall in love with Kevin Anthony.

Announcer:

Welcome to the Sex Reimagined Podcast, where sex is shame-free and pleasure forward. Let's get into the show.

Willow:

Welcome.

Kevin:

Well, thank you for having me. You know, you commented on the name of my podcast and I wanna say that Sex Reimagined is awesome also, because what we're gonna be talking about today is helping people reimagine what sex could be. This is such a huge part of what I do with men. It's like shifting the mindset about what sex really is and what it can be. So I'm excited to have that conversation.

Willow:

Well, where do you begin with men? Because I know from our work with men, you know, we get men from all walks of life and some have been on the journey, the sexual expansion, revolutional journey, and some are just just getting started. So what do you, where do you begin with somebody who's like fresh on the path and they're like, I don't know, but something's gotta shift.

Kevin:

Well, if they're really fresh on the path, like they're, if they're at that point of like, I don't really know what I don't know, but I know something has to happen. We gotta really start from the beginning. And from the beginning really is explaining to them what sex could be. So here we go. Let's talk about what your sex normally looks like, right? What it's been like your whole life. And now let's talk about the potential that sex can have, right? And so we, we have to sort of wet their appetites and get them to see that they could be experiencing something so much more than what they're currently experiencing. Now, you know, a lot of times when men come to me, they're kind of like, yeah, you know, I either I wanna last longer or, you know, she doesn't wanna have sex anymore. And, and you know, we used to have good sex, but not really anymore. And so a lot of times for those guys, I really have to tell them something they don't want to hear,

Leah:

Uh oh,

Kevin:

which is if she's not interested in sex, it's most likely because she's not getting the kind of sex she wants. It's literally that

Willow:

ding, ding. Oh my God. Did you hear that? Everybody, men and women alike. All genders. All orientations. Yeah. It's like if we're not enjoying it, then we're not, we're not getting what we would enjoy. And a lot, for a lot of women, they don't know what they would enjoy. So it's hard for them to guide or orient their partner in the right direction. So how do you, how do you take men down that road?

Kevin:

Well, it, like I said, it's something that they usually don't want to hear, right? Because they think, ah, I was, I thought I was doing good. Right? What do you mean? You know, she doesn't like the sex. I just thought she wasn't that into sex. And it's like there's this misconception out there that women don't want sex as much as men, that women aren't as horny as men are. And that is complete BS when women.

Leah:

people. Total myth.

Kevin:

Absolutely. When women are having great sex, they want it. They want it, and they will come for it. They will ask for it. They will jump on you, right? They will spontaneously pull your pants down and initiate, right? It will. So if that's not happening in your relationship, there's a reason for it. Now, obviously there can be lots of reasons. There can be built up resentment and relationship problems, but one of the main reasons is the men have never truly learned how to show up in the bedroom and give her the kind of sex that makes her want more. So how do we start? Well, we gotta start by defining for men what is it that she's actually looking for? You know, I had this conversation on another podcast recently where the host was kind of indicating, well, most men just really don't care and they just want what they want. And I said, well, you know, that's true for some men, for sure. But that's not what I see mostly. What I see mostly is they just don't know. They don't have a clue. They've never been taught. Right. And so they're just going on, you know, what they learned from their buddies or what they learned in porn. Right. And it's like, we all know porn sex is not real in any way, shape, or form. Right. So, oh, you know, Mr. Plummer walks in and suddenly she's all over him and she loves everything he does.

Leah:

Yes. Every woman loves to be railed

Willow:

And Yeah, And it's super fast and furious and there's no lead up. There's no warm up. Yeah.

Leah:

Yeah.

Kevin:

exactly. So we need to, we need to rewrite that whole narrative and we, we need to go back to here's what she's actually looking for. And you know, I would say most of the men I work with are open to that. When they hear it, they go, oh, oh, I didn't realize that. Okay, well how do I do that? Most men that I work with are in that place, but I do occasionally get men who are in the space. Yeah, that sounds like a lot of work. Like really, like that's what I gotta do.

Leah:

Mm.

Kevin:

To which case I say, uh, you just have to be okay with that. You just have to get used to like, if you wanna have sex with women, this is the way it has to be. And if you're not willing to do that, then just, you know, be celibate. Have a great masturbation practice, or go have sex with men because you know,

Leah:

Or pay for it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Save your money, baby. So, all right. Well then demystify this. What is it that women want that they're not getting? What would make having sex worth it for women?

Kevin:

Okay. We will start first with presence with his masculine presence. This is one of the biggest things I hear women asking for is they want him to be present. Now the funny thing is, is when you say that to guys, well, of course I'm present. I'm right there

Willow:

right here.

Leah:

Mm-hmm.

Kevin:

right here, like

Willow:

dunno what that means

Kevin:

showed up reporting for duty. I'm like, that's not what we mean by presence, right? What we mean by presence is that you are actively engaged with her, right? So that might look like, uh, you know, looking into her eyes rather than closing your eyes and just being lost in your own fantasy or pleasure, uh, that might look like actually communicating with her. That might look like paying attention to all the little signs, you know, to see where she's at. Is she warmed up enough yet, you know, are her cheeks flushed yet? Is she making eye contact? Is she making noises? What's her body doing? Is it tense? Is it relaxing? You know, what's happening in her genitals? There's a, there's a whole module I teach with my clients where I literally have pictures of the stages of arousal of women's genitals to show them like, this is what it looks like when you've done nothing. Here's what it looks like when you've done a little bit. Here's what it looks like when she's really ready to go and it blows men's mind. And then they see that, they're like, I never realized there was such a difference.'cause I point out things like you can see the color of the outer labia change. You can see that they get engorged and swell. You can see that the clitoris will actually get engorged. You can see that the inter lips will open up a little bit. You can see that some wetness is starting to form. There's like a, there's a lot of stuff that you can see that can give you some clues as to where she's at. But if you're too focused on what you want and getting to your orgasm or being stuck in some fantasy, whatever it is, or, or sometimes it's even just, I'm trying not to come yet. Right. You know, all of those things keep you mentally distracted and you're not there. And one of the things I tell men all the time is like, the second you check out, she feels it. She knows it. It's, you could be looking straight in her eyes, but if you're mentally checked out, she's like, Where'd to go?

Willow:

feel,

Kevin:

Where'd to

Leah:

we can feel it in your touch. Your touch starts to feel clinical, um, when you're thinking too hard about what to do next. I would also add that a lot of women haven't seen these pictures, so a lot of women don't even know what they look like. They don't even know how to associate the changes in their arousal with their changes in their vulva and'cause guys, let me tell you, if we knew, we would tell you. So this is also like a call to the women who are listening. Hey, check out your own vulva when you're touching yourself. Look at it when it's roused, and then, then turn it on some more for five minutes and then look at it again, and then keep touching for another five minutes and then look at it again and see how much it changes. Because there's a real mind body connection that will change the sensation of your arousal when you can see the proof of your arousal.

Willow:

Yeah. And I think another thing too that happens for a lot of guys is they're, they're check, it's funny, they're, they're, they think that they're focused on the woman. They're like, I'm present. I'm here. I'm going to. Make her feel a certain way. I'm going to do this hand movement the way that I've seen it in pornography, because that I know makes a woman feel good,

Leah:

That'll make her squirt.

Willow:

performative thing. So it's like they, they, they, in, in their experience, they are really present, they're really focused on her. However, they're still not attuned to her, right? The, and, and also not attuned to, um, the themselves and, and the, the shakti or the divine feminine essence that is alive in all of us. Um, so there's so many layers, you know, for, for everyone.

Leah:

You, you know, if I can just bring up one more thing. Maybe you can comment on this, Kevin. It's along the same lines that we're talking on, and I almost say it actually happens way before, like the actual, we're gonna get it on moment. It's kind of like when she's telling you something and you're looking at your phone. And she can tell you're not present, even though you could repeat back to her what she just said. Because what you do is you're looking for facts and data, but you're not actually attuning to her. You're not actually being with her. You're listening from a different place than when you're being intimate, and that's a higher level of presence. It's like, you're really with me. I have your attention. Your attention isn't split. And I think what causes some women to like maybe shut down or not be as interested in sex, it's having that experience over and over and over again where they feel like you're not really with me even when you're with me.

Kevin:

Yeah, absolutely. And it definitely starts before it's time to get it on. And that brings me to another thing which is similar but yet different, which is, you know what I call connection, right? So there's presence, right? But you could be completely disconnected. You haven't sat down and, and checked in with each other all day long, and all of a sudden you show up, you go in the bedroom, it's like, okay, now I'm giving you my presence. But, but you know, ladies, and I'm sure you can comment on this too. It's like, okay, great. You're present with me now in this moment, but I needed some connection before we even got to this moment. Right? So you're right it starts beforehand. It's like, take some time to sit down and connect like, how was your day? How are you doing? Give, give each other a little something to like get that feeling of, oh, here we are together again. Right. Then you can transition into the bedroom, then you can give presents.

Leah:

Yeah. You know, uh, Esther Perel says that foreplay starts after the last orgasm. So once you have an orgasm, we're back to foreplay baby.

Kevin:

absolutely. So that, that's exactly, there's something I teach that I call the constant state of arousal. And, and that's that whole, that's that whole thing of where it, you know, it's the little things you do day in and day out to stoke that arousal to keep the fire going, right? To keep some desire happening so that you don't have to go from zero on your arousal scale to a five when it's time to have sex. But part of that is as soon as sex is over, you go right back to the beginning of that constant state of arousal and it's this constant loop that you keep running all the time. That's how you keep things hot and going.

Willow:

Hmm.

Leah:

wonder, do men get kind of scared when you hear them say that? Like, oh my God, I have to think about arousal. Like I've gotta keep my arousal up

Kevin:

I mean, for, for men, I think most of'em are like,

Willow:

They're like, I'm already always aroused. I'm walking around with this cock between my legs all the time. It's ready to go. Well, I think, I think it's more like how, you know, how do you, how do you impart to men how to keep that arousal alive inside of their, you know, female partners?

Kevin:

Yeah. And that's what it really comes down to.'cause I think as we just joked about, for most men, they're like, I'm either always aroused or I get, they're like, that, it's not really a problem. But where, where they do have a problem, when you start to introduce the constant state of arousal thing is, oh my God, once again, that sounds like a lot of work. Like, I, I gotta do what? Like how do I, like, how do I maintain this? How do I do this? And so we really start by breaking it down and trying to make it simple and letting them know. It doesn't require big, grand gestures to happen all the time. It's just the little things. The little things. Here's, here's one that, that stokes the fire really, really well. And it's really simple. Keep your word when you say you're gonna take the trash out, when you say you're going to, you know, whatever it is that she asks you to do. That, that's lubrication right there. Every time you say you're gonna do something, you just follow through with it,

Willow:

Oh, follow through. Yeah, because it builds so much trust, and trust is really what a lot of vulva owners need in order to drop into vulnerable intimacy.

Leah:

Yeah. And it's, it's what a lot of them actually don't have, you know? And it might not be because of the person she's with. It could be because of an accumulation of experiences with the opposite sex that has distorted trust. It could also be that there's a part of her that she doesn't trust herself. So I think keeping your word is, uh, such great advice. Not only does it build trust, but I think it builds respect.

Willow:

Mm-hmm.

Leah:

And I think men need respect. You know, like there's that other thing

Kevin:

well, we, we want

Leah:

completes itself. Uh,'cause yeah.

Kevin:

Yeah, we, we want respect, but a lot of times we don't realize why we're not getting

Leah:

Yes.

Willow:

right, right. What's another, what's another good like lubrication tip for

Leah:

Yeah. I love lubrication tips. These are great.

Kevin:

The other one that I often teach in the constant state of arousal is, uh, something called the appreciation game, which is just making sure that every day you take a little bit of time to share something that you love and or appreciate about your partner. Just little things, and this is another one where they go every day because I usually tell'em, I go every day, you gotta share three things that you love and or appreciate about your partner. And at first they're like, oh my God. And then, you know, I'll assign that to them, uh, as their homework. Uh, after like the first couple of days they go, yeah, that wasn't so bad. After about a week, they're like, I'm running out of things. I don't know what to do. And that's why you say. Don't over complicate it. It's little stuff. It's like, I loved the way that, you know, you put that extra spice in the meal that you made today. Right? Or, you know what? Just the little things. Just notice the little things. I, I love that you did something slightly different with your hair today. Right? Or your, even if she did nothing different with her hair today, just say, your hair looks really good

Leah:

Mm-hmm.

Willow:

Yeah. and you can repeat too. Don't, don't be afraid to say that every day. Your hair looks great today, honey.

Leah:

or or if she tells a story, be like, God, I really love the way you tell a story like that, or, I really appreciate how you responded to your colleague. You know, or, you know, it can be, there's so many things, but yeah, you have to kind of coach your mind to look, I think I'm back to listening again. You know, like you're listening with your eyes. You have to listen with your whole body.

Willow:

Yeah. Well, and then if you really wanna get to her, you, you appreciate her presence that she brings, and she's gonna be like, wow, you must be present to see my presence. Hello?

Kevin:

Yeah, that's a great one too. I mean it, you come home from work as a man and you want to talk about your day and she listens to you. You can simply say at the end of that, you know, I really appreciate how you, you really gave me your attention and you really listened to, to how my day was today. It literally could be that simple and I think the problem is men way over complicated and they're like trying to think of like all these different things. I'm like, just keep it simple. If you spend enough time with your woman, you will have plenty of little things that you can share.

Leah:

You know, I often tell,

Willow:

go ahead.

Leah:

I was gonna say, I often tell women, find one thing he's doing right and like bring it to his attention because we spend more time telling men what they're doing wrong and people thrive under positive recognition. People don't really thrive over criticism and negative confirmation. So I think, you know, it's an, it's basically saying the same thing, just a little bit different.

Willow:

Yeah. And another thing that I like to orient people to, couples, especially who've been together for a long time is like, what are, what are your core values? What are your top two core values? What are the things that are so important to you, you know, and to, and then to orient your appreciations around that.

Leah:

Can you give an example of that just for, for people to orient around what, what our values are like what would be your top two?

Willow:

Like my top two are, one of my top ones is understanding, you know, like to, to be understood. And so if there was, uh, you know, a partner who was like, God, I just, I love the way that you take the time to be present and really like, understand, uh, the way our kid is, you know, dealing with stuff, stuff at school or, or the way you understand, the way you know what I'm going through at work or the way you understand your patients or whatever it is. Um, and then also, like another example, an ex of mine, one of his top core values was follow through, which, you know, is such an important one. And I see the value in it. It creates trust. But it wasn't a value that I really oriented to because I was like, people don't follow through. Like, you just can't. That's the way the cookie crumbles. That was kind of the message I grew up with, you know? So, um, so, but if I could go back to that relationship and, you know, orient my appreciations, like, gosh, I really thank you for, you know, doing what you said you were gonna do and texting when you said you were gonna text and showing up when you said you were gonna show up. Like, it, it really allows me to drop into a deeper state of trust with you, which I did have in that

Leah:

Mm-hmm. All right. You got more lube. You got more lube for us, kevin, what else you got?

Willow:

more.

Kevin:

Well, so, okay. Other than those types of things, then we can start moving a little bit towards like, the physical type stuff, right? So, you know, hugging each other frequently, uh, taking time to cuddle maybe, uh, when you wake up in the morning for a few minutes or maybe at night before you fall asleep. Um, here's what I was sharing with a couple, I was coaching recently and I said, you know, just every time you walk by, grab her butt. And then I said, hold on. I said, but you gotta make sure you know what she likes. If she doesn't like her butt grab, don't grab her butt. So ask her, what, what types of little, you know, uh, physical affection would she actually like and would turn her on and, and is no sooner did I finish saying that? Then she goes, yeah, I don't like when he grabs my butt. But then, but then she came back and she said, but the reason why I don't like when he grabs my butt is because he grabs it too firmly.

Willow:

Ah,

Kevin:

And I said, there you go. All you have to do is adjust the way that you touch

Leah:

Hmm.

Willow:

the grab.

Kevin:

Yeah. So little things like that, you know, you're just walking by and, you know, grabbing her butt in a way that she likes, or, you know, uh, wrapping your arms around her and giving her a hug, giving her a passionate kiss. Little things like that spread throughout the day go a long, long way.

Leah:

Yeah, I love it when my husband kisses the tip of my nose and my third eye. I think he's gonna go for my lips, and then he goes somewhere else, and it's like, I don't know if it does something on the inside that makes me feel giddy and sweet and a little like girl, like, I don't know what it is, but I, it does it for me.

Kevin:

I hear most, most women also say, um, they really would like their men to kiss them more often. That's a big one that I often hear. So that's something that can be done that's fairly easy. Now, of course. When women are saying that they don't necessarily mean, you know, the peck on the lips or the peck on the cheek, they, they want an actual kiss that's more passionate. Yeah.

Willow:

Right.

Leah:

you know, I often hear women wish their partner kissed differently. And it's like, can you teach'em how to kiss? And I'm like, well, the best way to learn how to be your partner's best kisser they ever had is to pay attention to how they kiss you and then kiss them back the way they kiss you. And then you'll start to feel, oh, okay, that's their style. All right? Not too much tongue in the beginning and then deepen, and then where they like the nipples. All those things can really help you. Again, listen for how your partner likes to make out. And I think one of the key things with couples, long-term couples especially, is they forget to make out, you know, they forget to kind of be those teenagers. Um, when you could pay attention long enough to like make out for an hour. I mean, I don't remember the last time I even made out for an hour. I ever put that on the to-do list.

Kevin:

well when we were younger we used to make out for an hour.'cause a lot of times that's all we could do.

Willow:

all

Leah:

That's right. So maybe take some things off the table and then see how long your

Willow:

I still, I still get into the makeout for an hour or more period. I think I had a makeout session the other day for like four hours, right? Because we're like, let's hold off on the, on the sex, right? And so it's like, we're only gonna take it so far and it's fun

Leah:

Yeah.

Willow:

it does take you back into that like, like younger, more like, oh, it's, it's naughty if we go any further, you know, it's like, it's not being able to, to take things further does kind of like create more charge and more,

Leah:

Yeah. More like sexual tension.

Willow:

Yeah. So you can always play with that too, I think in long-term relationships where it's like, okay, well I'm gonna, I'm taking this off the table for the next, you know, day or two or whatever, just to kind of like create more longing and desire in charge.

Kevin:

Yeah, that's part of the constant state of arousal is, is to create that charge. And one of the things, you know, I tell men all the time, like, if you want your woman to give you more blow jobs, then you have to make sure that you don't require her to continue until you finish.

Willow:

Yeah.

Kevin:

cause that's how a lot of men still view it. It's like, oh, well, you know, you started so now you gotta finish me and now I have to ejaculate. And it's like, you know, sometimes she might not want that. She might want not wanna do it that long. She might not wanna deal with you ejaculating all over her in her mouth, wherever it is. Right. But if you take that off the table, yeah, she might be willing to give you a blowjob for a couple of minutes here or there. Right. Which means you'll get them more frequently. And if you're not finishing, and this is what made me think of this, is this idea that you're gonna walk away from that both of you are gonna be turned on and you're gonna have that, that energy that you can carry through the rest of your day. It creates that anticipation. Like, Ooh, when can we get back to that? Right.

Leah:

Yeah. That's great advice.

Willow:

it sounds like with your guy, with your men that are coming to you, you're really just turning everything on its head, right? You're really just, uh, enlightening them to a whole nother orientation around what sexuality could be.

Kevin:

Yeah, well if they're coming in with more of the default, you know, sort of view, masculine view of what sex is, then yeah, we are radically changing

Willow:

and how does that change, like everything else in their lives, all the other sectors, you know, their career, their relationship to their family and their home, and their health and their kids.

Kevin:

You know, if they can really embody this and really make it part of who they are, they will see that first their sex life is transforming. And instantly when their sex life is transforming, when she's wanting more sex, when she's asking for it more often, when she's, you know, providing more, you know, little blow jobs here and there. When you know she's having bigger orgasms, maybe more orgasms, instantly he feels more confident. He's like, I am the stud. Look what I can do. Right?

Willow:

Mm-hmm.

Kevin:

So he's feeling that. And then, you know, obviously the relationship dynamic is gonna improve because she's happier now. Her needs are being met, right? She's getting a lot of the little things that she wanted, the appreciations, the recognition, the presence, and the great sex, right? So now they're relating in a much better way, right? So now his stress is reduced. He's feeling like Superman because of all this. And then he can literally take that out everywhere else. So instead of showing up to work the next day, being all angry and pissed off because he hasn't had sex in a month, right? Um, he's showing up and he's happy and he's like fully in his power and he's confident and he's going into that meeting and he's saying, here's what we need to do, right? Um, it, it can, it really does have the power to transform every part of your life. Everybody knows what it's like when your relationship is not going well. You know how it makes you feel. You know how down you feel. You know how grumpy you are. You know how you end up snapping at other people. Well, the reverse is also true, right?

Leah:

Can you say something about, um, you know when your partner just feels so obligated that they kind of shrug off your touch like constantly, whether it's sexual or nonsexual. She's gotten to the point where her nervous system just gets nervous because any kind of touch makes her feel like she's gonna be obligated to finish something. Like even just your affection makes her, um, tense because if she gives you an opening, it means you're gonna wanna go all the way. And I see this happen in relationships that have had this dynamic for a long time where you know her, she keeps on rejecting him more and more and more because any sign of affection means I want something and you have to give it to me. So does that dynamic, uh, show up in your office?

Kevin:

Oh, absolutely. This is exactly what I was talking about in the beginning when I have to tell men something they don't want to hear, which is if she doesn't want sex, she's not getting the kind of sex that she wants. This is absolutely related to that same thing with constant state of arousal and, you know, her being willing to give blow jobs. Like it, it's, it is exactly that dynamic is that when she feels that she's obligated to do something that she either doesn't wanna do. Or doesn't want to do for, you know, the same amount of time, or doesn't wanna do in the same way, then yeah, every time there's something that shows up like that, like a touch or an advance of some sort, she's gonna have a negative, you know, stimulus to that, right? It's like, ooh, ah, no, that means I'm gonna have to do this thing I don't wanna do. And whether she's conscious of that reaction or not, it's going to show up, right? And so this is where we have to rewire men's brains and be like, you have to realize that you have to create an environment where she feels like she's not obligated to do anything. And so the perfect example is what I was just talking about with the blow jobs. If you want to get blow jobs more often, then she has to know that she can do it whenever she wants for however long she wants. She doesn't have to finish you. It can just be a minute, it can be five minutes, it can be 20 minutes, it could be whatever it is, as long as she knows she's not obligated to do something. Because let's face it, if, if starting a blowjob means you have to finish him and he has to ejaculate in your mouth. How often are you really up for that?

Leah:

Well, I'm even, I'm sort of thinking of the guy who, she's not even having sex. He hasn't had a blow job in six years. Like all of sex and blow jobs are actually way off the table. She's gone to the place where she's like, I'm not fucking you. Um, so like, he's actually gotta start way further away. And I'm just kind of curious, like, is it differentiating, affectionate touch versus sexual touch? How do you help him on the path when like that door has been closed and he, he's lost probably 95% hope that she'll ever open the door back.

Kevin:

Okay. So yeah, that, that's, that's a whole other story. It's one thing to have her not want to, uh, go along with it all the time because she's not always in the mood for whatever he thinks has to happen. But it's another thing if the door is basically closed. the door is closed, you have to figure out why that door got closed and most likely, yeah, it probably does have to do with the way you touched her and that sort of thing. But I, I would say probably 90% of the time there are even bigger problems than that in the relationship. There are a whole bunch of things that are not happening. You're not keeping your word, you're not connecting, like there's a, there's some sort of thing that's really in the way that's caused you to be really disconnected. So you gotta start by, by bringing that connection back together again. It's like you were saying before, take some things off the table. Like if the door is already shut, sex has gotta be off the table. Like that can't even really come into the picture until you've reestablished a connection where you're feeling like, oh yeah, I actually enjoy being with this person. I feel connected to them. I'm starting to feel some of that love and affection that we had, you know, way back when. when That's gotta happen first before you get anywhere near. How do we have sex again?

Leah:

Yeah.

Willow:

what you're speaking to is like for, for them to find another style of intimacy, maybe like in emotional intimacy or in a creative project together, some other

Leah:

Hmm.

Willow:

of intimacy where they can come together and they can find a connection point. And, but then still the question I have is like, how, how can men in that, in that sphere that they're in with their partner, how can they provide a sense of no obligation? Like, how can they impart that? Like, hey, let's go do this, you know, swing dancing class together, or something totally off that they haven't done before. Pattern interrupt. Like, let's go do this thing together, um, just to do it. You know, without, without the obligation of like that this has to lead to some other form of intimacy that I know is off the table for you.

Kevin:

Well, you know, the way I look at any relationship, it's a team. It's a team effort, right? And so you always wanna approach anything that you're gonna do of like, you know, what's in the best interest of the team. And if you can see it from that point of view, then you realize like, if it works for me, but it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for the team, right? So from that perspective, it's like. I, I can't obligate you to do something because if it's not working for you, it's not working for me, ultimately because it's not working for the team. So there's a mindset shift around that, which is like, you have to understand that we're approaching this as a team. How can we get our relationship back on track? Which means you both have to be open to whatever that takes, and realizing that, you know, you might have to compromise something that you think, you know, should be a requirement or an obligation. Like you just have to let go of that. Like, I'll use the analogy like if I'm teaching a couple communication, the first thing, the very first thing on the list of all the communication best practices is you have to create an environment where you both feel safe to show up and talk about anything. Anything, it doesn't matter how potentially triggering it is, if you don't have that in your relationship, then every other thing down the chain of communication is gonna be compromised to some extent. You have to be able to show up and talk about anything, right? In a safe environment where you feel like your partner's not gonna jump all over you or, you know, have a crazy reaction or judge you or anything like that. And it's kind of the same thing with like, how do we get the relationship back on track? Okay? We are a team and we're working together for the common goal of reconnecting as a couple and, and, you know, uh, enhancing our relationship. We need to be open to all the possibilities that that incurs. And that means if something doesn't work for you, then we, we put it aside and we find something else. And we work together like that over and over until we find what works for both of us.

Leah:

I have a question. I don't, I don't know if you have an answer for this, but, um, it's, it is known in a lot of therapeutic communities that men don't get oftentimes as much out of therapy than their partner does, where they, a lot of men report that they feel like the therapist sides with the woman and then couple's therapy becomes less effective. Um, I'm curious what sets apart like you as a male coach and do you have any, have you, have you tuned into any of this? I, I'm just kind of curious that I think a lot of men might actually find working with someone like you or, or a male therapist maybe, maybe that'd be more successful than working with a female therapist. Do you have any insight on that?

Kevin:

Yeah, I mean, I could see, I could, I mean like everybody has their own biases, right? So if you're seeing a female therapist who has her own history of trauma in relating to males, granted she's supposed to put that aside and stay professional. But let's be honest, that's a very difficult thing to do. You know, it's like when we tell people like, well, you work for the government so you're supposed to leave religion out of it. Yeah. Except if you really believe in your religion, every decision you make is based on your beliefs of your religion, right? So like these things can be hard to separate out for most people. Um, I would say for me, when I'm working uh, especially when I'm working with couples is I'm happy to point out the problems that they're both doing, like an equal opportunity call you outer, right? Like I, you know, because that's really, you have to do that. This is the only way you're going to get to the core of the issues and everything is a co-creation. I almost never see a situation where the behavior that one person is doing is a hundred percent them, right? So even, even if somebody's doing, let's say she's being, you know, really, really bitchy towards him constantly, like snapping at him, complaining, criticizing all of that stuff, okay? That is her behavior. But what is that in response to? It's probably in response to something that he's doing on his end, right? So this idea of saying, well, you know, it's all her fault, or it's all his fault. I, I rarely find that that's the case. There's usually some dynamic between the two of them where you could point out and say, okay, yeah, he did this, but if you reacted to it this way, it would shift, right? And, and so we worked together that way.

Leah:

Yeah.

Willow:

Then, then once again, you're reorienting to the team. So I, I feel like when you're, when you're talking about the team, you know, this is such age old wisdom, but it's like there's three people inside of a relationship that is two people. You know, there's you, there's them, and then there's the third party, which is the, the union of you two. And to, um, I think it was like Tik, not Han who, who talks about like, when you get into your car, you are your car, right? It's not like your car is one body and your body is another body. It's like you are getting into a union with that vehicle. And so it's the same like when you get into a, a relationship where it's like, okay, the we are together. This is a relationship. It's like you're stepping into a vehicle and now the, the you that is your own sovereign being and sovereign self has this other vehicle to get into. When it comes to relating to the union of, of the two of you.

Kevin:

I think it's such a simple concept, this idea of a team. And yet, I mean, most of the time when I teach it to couples, they kind of go, I never thought about it

Willow:

Right. It's amazing.

Leah:

Well, we live in, we live in, a culture that prizes individualization. So like it's all about the individual. I mean, you look at everywhere and it's kind of about me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me. How am I feeling? What am I doing? What am I

Willow:

Even just the, the word of the, the iPhone and the iPod and the eye candy and the, I, I I I, I, you know,

Leah:

even the word sovereignty, it's all about me. It's about what I need and what I want. And I have to live by that truth at all times.'cause then I'll be sovereign. I mean, even some of our language that we use to empower people also, kind of, if you feel a little bit more into it, that's not a word that inspires, um, partnership. It's a word that inspires personal empowerment.

Willow:

Right, right. So. So that's a good question for you, Kevin. Like, like where do those two, how can those two be married and live together? Like, how can you carry sovereignty or personal empowerment and still be in relationship in union with, uh, beloved or partner? Mm-hmm.

Kevin:

that's a great question. I, I did a, uh, summit not too long ago where I actually talked about that, this idea of, you know, how do you be part of a team and like really be part of a team, like a hundred percent in we are a team and yet still maintain, you know, quote unquote your sovereignty. And, you know, honestly, I don't think it's that hard yet. A lot of people do struggle with it. So the first thing is. You have to be a hundred percent in on being part of the team, right? So be part of the team. Commit to this. Like, if I want to be with you in an intimate relationship, I'm making a choice that we are a team and as men, like we're sort of designed to compete, right? That's what we do. That's like testosterone is like fuels us to compete. And we compete with our male friends. We compete in the workplace, we compete everywhere. But you know, where we don't wanna compete is in our relationship. We want to come home from competing out in the world, and we don't wanna do more competing when we get home, right? So we wanna really be a true team, but we have to commit to that a hundred percent, which means we have to show up as men and do our part in that, right?

Willow:

Mm-hmm.

Kevin:

Committing to the team, there's, there's no problem with that. And you don't lose your sovereignty unless you start compromising yourself and your own values and your own needs repeatedly.

Willow:

Mm-hmm.

Kevin:

Right to the other person in the team. That's when you have a problem. But as long as you can stay solid in yourself and who you are, and as long as you can show up to that team and say, honey. I am 100% on board, but here's like, here's a need that I have and this is important to me. And you're able to voice that. And then you get to work together to, you know, like the, the classic example of that is, you know, when we talk about, uh, men and women and, and sort of how they replenish their energy, right? And we talk about oxytocin versus testosterone and we say, you know, women, when they need to replenish, it's helpful for them to get together with other women and talk. Or do, you know, self-care days and things like that. Things that boost their oxytocin levels and then they feel relaxed, right? And then they come back. But for men, it's like we need to do things that restore our testosterone levels. And for that, it's like cave time. It's sitting there watching the game for an hour for some men, or you know, hanging out with their buddies and doing something physical, working out, building something,

Leah:

Being alone in nature. Yeah.

Kevin:

Yeah. Being alone in nature, whatever it is, that is the thing that works for you. But the point is, is that how you maintain your sovereignty is you have good boundaries and you say, okay. I work a really high stress job. When I come home, I need 30 minutes of my cave time to do my thing. And once that's done, I will come back. I will show up. I will give you a hundred percent of my attention.

Leah:

Yeah, I got some oxytocin for you.

Willow:

Well, yeah, I love that. That's a great comp like compromise because it's basically, it's it's self-care. It's like, let me go resource myself so that I actually have a full cup to bring to this union that we're in

Kevin:

I just did this the other day with with my partner as well. I was out all day long. I had a really stressful day. I show up to her place and she's starting to make dinner and usually we make dinner together and I just looked at her and I was like, I got nothing in the gas tank. Like I know I usually help you with this. I know you don't wanna do it all by yourself, but I need to go sit down for like half an hour. And I did. And then I came back and I'm like, okay, now I've got energy to do this.

Willow:

Uhhuh.

Leah:

Yeah, that's great. That's also really shows, um, a willingness to be responsible for yourself and for what's going on with you and to be able to communicate that. You know, I think so much of the time we get in the habit of mind reading, you know, where we make assumptions about our, how our partner's feeling and we're not communicating what's going on with us, or maybe we're over communicating what's going on with us and our partner doesn't have room for themselves to also sort out, you know, what's happening with them. I know in my relationship, um, I'm a fast processor and my partner is a slower processor, so sometimes I can take up all the processing space. He just needs a little bit more patience, a little bit more time to sort out what's happening with him. Um, so, you know, noticing that about yourself and your partner to go, do you have a different rhythm that you need to respond to so that everyone can get on the same page? Age? What do you think women could be doing differently in having better relationships with men?

Kevin:

Ooh. We talked about something earlier that we kind of went in a different direction and we didn't have time to really address. But you mentioned something earlier about sort of acknowledging men and the things that they do. This is really, really big for men. We want to feel seen, we want to feel acknowledged for the ways that we do show up. It really, really helps. So, you know, we were talking in the context of the, the appreciations men can give to women and how much that relaxes her and, you know, gets her turned on. But, uh, in the other direction, it's really, really effective also, because a lot of times, you know, especially too, if, let's say you have kids, right? And you just, like, you're out working all day long, you come home, the first thing that is expected of you is you gotta help out with the kids or the house chores or this or that. And a lot of times men just feel like they're slaves. Like it's just they're nonstop working, right? And the reality is these things do need to happen, and it does take two people to do it.

Leah:

Mm-hmm.

Kevin:

But when you don't feel like you're being acknowledged for how hard and how stressful it actually is for you, resentment builds,

Leah:

Mm-hmm.

Kevin:

So for her to simply say, I see the way you show up. I see how hard you work, and I really appreciate. It's huge. It's huge. And it's something a lot of men don't get.

Leah:

Right. We take each other for granted so much.

Willow:

Appreciation goes so far. I think, you know, one of the things that humans, all humans really, really want is just to be seen and appreciation is that, you know, it, it is like taking the time to say, I see you and the effort that you're putting out and how you're showing up, and, and, it's change, it changes my experience. So, so not only like, thank you and I see you, but like, here's how it's affecting me and my experience.

Leah:

I think too.

Kevin:

more too. If

Leah:

Okay, great. Yeah.

Willow:

More lubrication. Yes, please.

Kevin:

Well, because your, your, your question was what can women be doing? And there's, there's something that my wife used to teach all the time, uh, when she was with us and, and she called it the four Cs. And they're basically four things that women shouldn't necessarily be doing. And they are complain, criticize, compete, and control, right?

Leah:

Ding.

Kevin:

if we look at those and we reverse them and do the opposite of those things, so what's the opposite of complain and criticize? It's share the appreciations, right? Um, and then, you know, just take the opposites of each one of those and do those things. And they're really not that hard.

Willow:

Mm-hmm.

Kevin:

But, you know, when you've got maybe years of resentment built up, right, it then becomes challenging because it's hard to share appreciations or, you know, acknowledge him for the things that he does when you feel like he hardly ever does anything, or nine times or eight times outta 10 he doesn't do, or whatever it is. So, you know, you might have to start with resolving any of that past resentment before you can really get into a space where that works. But if you can just do the opposite of those four things, well stop doing those four things and then do the opposite of them. That's really all you have to do. We will instantly respond to that. That takes us men from, yeah, I'm in a relationship to, with her, to I want to f marry this

Willow:

I wanna

Leah:

yeah.

Willow:

with her.

Leah:

I think too, we have, like, we all, uh, all of our brains are pro programmed for a negative bias. So what we tend to do is pay attention to all the things that are disappointing us and we forget to amplify the things that are going right. And so you actually have to really train your brain to observe differently. I mean, they say it takes, I think it's, um, f four positive things to take one negative thing out of your awareness. So you really have to like work harder to make it a habit to, to amplify all the good in your world so that you're not just, uh, consumed with all the times you're disappointed and every time something doesn't go right and why can't you just do it the way I've asked? You know, you do it. For the last six years, you know, why can't we get this figured out? Well, those things are so much easier to adapt when we're also being seen for our gentleness and for our generosity and for our compassion. And you know, for all the times we do pick it up.

Willow:

What do you, what do you call it, Leah? You call it like the, uh, emotional capital or the bank account or

Leah:

Well, yeah, I mean, I think when we can really trust somebody, we're building emotional capital with people all the time that we're letting into our life. And one of the things that I've noticed is that I will act out more of my patterns with people who I have a lot of emotional capital with because we've established you love me, you like me. And so some of the more sharp parts come up to the surface when we have more emotional capital. So we have to remember that not to take that for granted and, uh, and hopefully get good at cleaning up our messes when we've made a mess. I think that's a part of adulting. Um, give us something else. I, I think you had a, a few more things on the list in regards to what women can do. You said the four C's, but the only one I really, um, got in was complain, criticize.

Kevin:

So, so compete is another one, right? So I was mentioning before we compete all day as men. We don't want to come home and compete so.

Leah:

let's collaborate at home,

Kevin:

Yeah, exactly. Collaborate. Let's collaborate. So in other words, it's not, when I come home, it's like, I need you to do this, and why don't you do that? And like, there's this sort of adversarial, like I'm stepping in and being your boss and like, then there's this competition over who's in charge kind of thing that doesn't work at all, but work collaboratively. How can we work together? Remember team, this is team.

Willow:

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kevin:

there's that. And then, and there's also the opposite of control, right? So a lot of times, in fact, I, I just heard you say something, uh, a moment ago, Leah was like, you were emulating some, but a woman who was not happy and she was saying, you know, how come you never do it the way I want you to do it? Right. And this is, this is a really important thing that I know a lot of women struggle with. They have an idea of how they want something done, right? And so they want him to do it exactly the way they want it done. But that's not what's important. What's important is the end result. Does it get done and does it get done appropriately, right? And so when it comes to controlling, women wanna kind of micromanage and they want to tell you gotta do this, that, and the other thing that drives men insane.

Willow:

It's nitpicky and annoying. Don't do

Leah:

It's the worst and it's such a bad habit to break.

Kevin:

it, it is a, it's a very difficult one for a

Leah:

Yeah. Wow.

Kevin:

But so the opposite of that is giving him a task, telling him, here's what I need done. And then letting him figure out how to do it on his own. And then if he does a good job, you reward him for that by appreciating him and saying, wow, that's really cool that you figured that out, and you did it in a way I never even would've thought of. Right? Too many women get attached to, you didn't do it exactly the way that I wanted it done. And it's like, did it get done? Why? What's the end result? What? What's the complaint about?

Leah:

this is where I think women don't take enough responsibility for the partnership because we have this idea that my way's the best way. And then we get fixated on that. And then we drive everyone crazy when they don't do it to our, to the way our method would've done it. And then we're tired and we're pissed that we're tired and we wonder why we never get

Willow:

Create our own. Hell, man.

Leah:

then we're in like the martyr saboteur of our life where we're looking around going, why am I angry all the time? Why don't I get any help? And it's like you're sabotaging the support that you're asking for, um, when you become controlling. So true.

Kevin:

And, I will add to that, ladies, like, I get it. Sometimes it's painful to sit there and watch him go through this process as he stumbles and bumbles,

Willow:

He's doing it all wrong.

Leah:

Yes. Yes, totally.

Kevin:

but it's, think of it this way, you got, I, I don't wanna compare men to children. That's not what I'm trying to do. But, but if you think about it this way, sometimes with children, the best way for them to learn is to watch them make mistakes as long as they're not gonna end up with a permanent lifelong injury. Right? Or, or, or, you know, disability, it's like sometimes you just gotta let'em do it, figure it out and stumble a bit, and then they really learn how to do it. There are going to be those circumstances ladies, where you know exactly the way it should be done and you want him to do it that way, but just let him figure it out on his own. You know, as long as you're not gonna lose a ton of money, no kid's gonna lose an eye. Like as long as something like that is, there's no real serious consequences. Just let him figure it out. He will come back feeling so proud of himself that he figured it out. And the problem is, is that when you start doing the controlling thing, not only is he annoyed by it, right, but you end up getting into like the worst position you can possibly be in when it comes to polarity, and that is being his mother.

Leah:

That's right

Kevin:

taking the mother role and it is just death to a relationship

Leah:

to sex. That is for sure.

Willow:

yeah. Unless you're in some kinky situation, you're doing mommy

Leah:

Yeah.

Willow:

role playing

Kevin:

that's

Willow:

But yeah, that's totally different

Leah:

that's a different kink. But, um, and I think too, like, uh, when he does it even better than you have a moment of being like, humbled Yeah. For that and just going, you know, let that, let that talk back to the part of you that thinks that your way is the best way. And it can be a moment of real tenderness and sweetness. And I think it also blossoms more respect that you can have for your man. So like a make space for that to exist and then be delighted by it. I think, I think this piece around when a woman parent parenthesis, I'm gonna parent things, um, their partner, uh, nobody wants that. I mean, and then you, and then he loses his confidence. You know, and that comes back to the criticism. It's like when you're controlling and having to do everything a certain way and then he is gonna fail over and over, that knocks his confidence down. How is that gonna be sexy? We wanna lift our guys up.

Willow:

Yeah, I mean from a, from a yin and yang perspective, you know, we, we live in such a yang dominant culture where productivity is what's valued and getting shit done and what's your status and all those things have value, whereas like, just being and resting and receiving and allowing the yin side of life is, is less valued. And it seems to me that, you know, everyone is, is racing in this yang dominant society. So women too are like, well he's gotta do it this way. This is what needs to get done. And I always have to micromanage because he doesn't know how to do it right. So she's like kind of stuck in her yangness, which leaves no room for his yang to come forward. And when I say yang everybody, I'm talking about masculine energy and feminine energy. And so I think this is such an. An incredible opportunity for, for all genders to, um, to, you know, find their polarity within the relationship

Leah:

That leads me to a question I wanted to ask you, Kevin, which is, okay, where does the masculine and feminine and polarity come into your teachings if it does?

Kevin:

Well, it definitely does, I guess, I mean, I use the word polarity, although these days sometimes I try to kind of consciously leave it out just because there are so many people out there in the space right now teaching polarity stuff and you know, some of it's good, there's some people out there teaching some good stuff, but then there's a whole lot of BS out there when it comes to polarity. And so I, I say that word and then like some people are like, yes, and other people are instantly triggered by it. So, but the reality is, is that polarity does exist in relationships. There is no denying it. You know, the entire construct of the reality that we live in is based on opposites or duality or. Polarity is another word of saying it. Right? So the masculine and the feminine is just one microcosm of that macrocosm, right? It absolutely exists. And to deny that it exists, I think there's a big disservice to men and women when we try to tell'em, you know, everybody's the same. We're all on equal footing. We, you know, try to smooth it all out and make it all the same. It it's really not good. So we have to of course, acknowledge that polarity is a thing and that establishing healthy polarity is of benefit to both parties in the relationship, right? But then we have to talk about what does healthy polarity look like? And that's where the conversation really gets off the track in a lot of spaces out there in the, you know, people are coining the term manosphere, right? You know, there's, there's some really unhealthy teachings around what that

Willow:

I haven't heard that

Leah:

Mm.

Willow:

The manosphere.

Kevin:

And that's all the people that are out there that are just teaching all like the man stuff. Like how to be a man, you know? And I don't, I'm not gonna mention any names of people who are out there doing it, but some are good, some are really not good. But it's that idea of, okay, what does that even mean? Right? To be like, if we're talking to men specifically, what does it mean to be a healthy masculine man? And that's, that's a whole, that's a whole conversation, a whole several sessions probably in and of itself, just to really work through what that means, because. I, so the way I teach it, and I, I won't go into the whole thing, but just to kind of, uh, talk about it a little bit, is I, I basically talk about the three stages of the masculine, which is, you know, the old school sort of macho asshole masculine, who doesn't care about her needs and thinks of her as property and it's controlling and all of that. And then the response to that was to swing to the other end of the spectrum, which is this sort of softy new age guy who, you know, is just, oh, what, whatever you want, like, doesn't really have a backbone, doesn't really step up, doesn't really lead, doesn't really. You know, uh, step into the role of provider or protector and wants everything to be equal and all that. No polarity there, right? And so then, then the next stage in that is realizing that you can take the best pieces of both of those and bring them together, which is why I call it the integrated masculine, because you do realize that as the male, it is your responsibility to be the protector, right? Because nature made you physically bigger and stronger that that job falls on your shoulders whether you want it or not, right? Um, so you realize, yeah, I need to be the protector. I need to be the provider for my family, right? I need to step up and lead and take charge and make sure things are happening, right? But at the same time. I also want to, uh, take her needs into account, her feelings into account. I'm not here to dominate and control and say, that's it. You're, this is the way it's gonna be. I'm here to say, Hey, I have an idea. Here's what I think we should do. Will that work for you? No. Okay. I got another idea. How about we do this? So I'm leading, right? But I'm taking your feedback into account and then I'm helping bring that into reality. That's one of the things that we're best at. Like, I mean, obviously women can bring a lot of things into reality also, so don't get me wrong on that. They bring like the ultimate thing into reality, which is us. But, but this idea that, like I've noticed at least in my own relationships, that a lot of the women have really been sort of the muse. They've been the inspiration and the idea behind a lot of either what we created together or even what I created on my own outside, like they were the spark for that. And then me as the masculine, you know, just, and not to say that we're not grounded in reality, but me as the masculine grounded in reality, it's like then I make it happen, right? And I figure out how to make it happen. It doesn't mean I always do it on my own. I might need, you know, help in, in doing that. But, um, those are ways that we can take all of those things together, right? Bring them together into what I would call an integrated or more healthy type of masculine. And if you can do that, if you can show up in that way where you are being a healthy masculine, that creates safety, which is what we talked about earlier. And once, once she feels safe that oh, he's got that role, then she starts to soften and relax and go back more into her feminine. But this is the, this is a wonderful thing about women, but that is also sometimes challenging, is that in the absence of a healthy masculine presence, you will just step in and fill that role. Watch any single mother you've ever known. Right, because they have to. Right? There's no man to step up and do the man stuff. So they just do, they get in there masculine and they do it because they have to.

Willow:

Mm-hmm.

Kevin:

But the problem is, is that because they've had to for so long, they get stuck in that role, right? And then they have a hard time letting go and getting back into their feminine. So one of the ways that the man can help with that is be that guy. Be that best version of yourself, that healthy, integrated masculine, create that safety in the relationship that signals to her. He's got this, I can let go.

Willow:

Mm-hmm.

Leah:

Beautiful to the integrated masculine. Mm-hmm.

Willow:

All

Leah:

on that note,

Willow:

someone to follow. You know, I'm always telling my, my male clients, I'm like, you need a man muse. You know, somebody like you could, they could be someone in the that you don't know someone in the movies or they could be Kevin Anthony. Kevin Anthony is a perfect man muse model, everyone.

Kevin:

wouldn't have thought of it that way, but yeah, absolutely. If I can, if I can at least inspire a few men to be better versions of themselves, I feel like I've done something

Willow:

Then you're doing it right? Yeah. So where can people find you?

Kevin:

The best way to find me is to go to my website at www.kevinanthonycoaching.com. That is the main portal for everything that I'm doing, uh, from my coaching programs to the Love Lab podcast, to my YouTube channels, and a whole bunch more stuff.

Leah:

Yeah, uh, check out the website. You guys we're gonna have in the show notes, all the links for Kevin, including some of his great courses and how you can, uh, work with him and coach with him also. Uh, I've been on the podcast, the Love Lab podcast, so I will link that episode and thank you so much, Kevin. We can't wait to have you back. Uh, there's already so many streaming questions I have for you. I wish we had more time.

Kevin:

I would love to come back. And I also wanna say, Leah, your, uh, appearance on my show was a really highly watched show. It

Willow:

Ooh,

Kevin:

really well pe people really loved it, so thank you.

Leah:

hmm. My, um, was my honor. All right. Y'all don't worry. The show's not over. We still got the dish coming right up, so stay tuned.

Announcer:

Now our favorite part, the dish.

Leah:

Okay,

Willow:

Kevin Anthony, what a love, what a sweet man doing such good work in the world. And he has been through some pretty deep intense things in this world, and I think that really, you know, talk about an integrated man, like he is really integrated a lot of shadow, dark, hard, you know, bottom of the ocean kind of experiences into

Leah:

I wish we would've asked him more about that.

Willow:

Yeah. Who he is as a coach and as a guide for, for the masculine and,

Leah:

I know he's been very open about, you know, the passing of his wife, who I think he started all of this work with. Um, he brings that up a lot on his show. Um, I don't know the full story of that yet, but

Willow:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I just love, you know, also just the, the tangible examples that he gives and like the things that he's really sharing with the audience around how to, um, how to create more trust within a relationship. How to create more safety, more of a container, more, more of a, um, a landscape for the, the partnership to thrive.

Leah:

Yeah, and I love his dedication to the turned on woman and inspiring men to investigate and to gain some skills and to broaden their awareness and to realize that there's lots of ways for everyone to get their needs met. It's all about shifting, um, the nature of the question and then putting some things into action that again, like you mentioned, generates safety, generates trust, generates openness. Um, I, we just, we just tapped the very, uh, tip of the surface when it comes to like really great practical things he's providing, uh, to men in particular. Yeah.

Willow:

check out his podcast, the Love Lab Pod. Love Lab podcast. And um, yeah, he's just got so much. He was on our most recent summit. We might have him back again on another summit. We'll definitely have him back again on the podcast. We are actually in a, um, a group called The Intimacy Alliance, which is a whole bunch of experts over 50 sex experts at this point. And he is one of the few men. There's only like. Two or three, and he just holds the masculine so beautifully in that container of like lots of feminine and Shakti. So it's very cool.

Leah:

Yeah. Speaking of which, you guys stay tuned to some announcements with dates that we're gonna have coming up. We're gonna be doing a series of summits. We've, uh, been inviting a collection of amazing experts to teach to you. Some of their tips and tricks we're gonna be having each month is gonna be like a different theme. Then in January it's gonna be all about, you know, being intentional with the new year. How do you wanna have better intimacy, better sex, uh, coming up in 2026. And then for Valentine's Day, it's gonna be about romancing um, either the beloved, if you got one or how to experience Valentine's Day on a whole different level as a single person. So we've got lots of good things in store. And don't forget, if you're in the Santa Barbara area, uh, Willow is having regular Tantra speed date events, uh, for all of you who wanna get a little taste of Tantra.

Willow:

Mm-hmm. It's very good. Tantra 1 0 1 at those events

Leah:

Mm-hmm. How can people find out about the Tantra speed date?

Willow:

Go to Tantra speed date.com and you can type in any city. There's over 58 cities around the world. We're international now. So, um, yeah, you go to Tantra speed date in, uh, in Portugal. It's a similar kind of event you'd see in Santa Barbara. So there you go.

Leah:

Nice.

Willow:

Much of love.

Announcer:

Thanks for tuning in. This episode was hosted by Tantric Sex Master Coach and positive psychology facilitator, Leah Piper, as well as by Chinese and Functional Medicine doctor and Taoist Taxology teacher, Dr. Willow Brown. Don't forget your comments, like subscribes and suggestions matter. Let's realize this new world together.

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Dr. Willow Brown

Host
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Leah Piper

Host
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Kevin Anthony

Guest