The Sex Reimagined Podcast

Dr. Marguerite Rigoglioso: The Hidden Sexual Spirituality Of Mother Mary & Mary Magdalene | #158

• Leah Piper & Dr. Willow Brown • Season 3 • Episode 158

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What If Ancient "Virgin Birth" Was Actually the Ultimate Tantric Experience? Dr. Willow and Leah sit down with scholar Dr. Marguerite Rigoglioso, who's spent decades researching something most of us never learned in history class: sacred sexuality was central to ancient spiritual practices, and figures like Mother Mary may have been tantric masters, not celibate virgins. Note: The historical interpretations presented in this episode represent the guest's research and theories, which may differ from mainstream academic consensus. 

WHAT WE DIVE INTO:

  • Why "divine birth" was actually a profound sexual/energetic experience
  • How ancient priestesses used sexual energy as spiritual technology
  • The real meaning of "virginity" (spoiler: it's about sovereignty, not celibacy)
  • What really happened at the Eleusinian Mysteries in ancient Greece
  • How temples used sexual healing practices for returning soldiers
  • The role of priestesses in teaching sacred sexuality

LINKS & RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE CAN BE FOUND HERE


AWAKENING THE GODDESS IN CRETE! Leah & Willow want to take you on an all-woman's tantric pilgrimage to Greece Oct 5-12, 2025! Join us for a trip of lifetime. 

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Willow:

In ancient times, stewarding sacred sexuality was a path of deep training passed through mystery schools and held by women known as priestesses. Today, the word priestess is rising again. But what does it really mean to embody this role and bring sexual healing into the world? Was Mary Magdalene herself one of these great priestesses? In this episode, we're going to explore the powerful resurgence of divine feminine teachings and how the sacred union of Mary Magdalene and Jesus or Yeshua can activate your own dormant sexual power with our incredible, amazing guest, Dr. Marguerite Rigoglioso. I am Dr. Willow Brown and I'm here with Leah Piper. This is Sex Reimagined and we're so grateful for all your likes, shares, and subscribes. Keep them coming.

Leah:

This is really exciting you guys. This is gonna be something that really kind of goes back into some deep roots, so tune in, turn on, and fall in love with Marguerite.

Announcer:

Welcome to the Sex Reimagined Podcast, where sex is shame-free and pleasure forward. Let's get into the show.

Leah:

Welcome to the show, Marguerite. Yeah.

Marguerite:

Woo. We're here finally.

Willow:

We're here. Tell us about your journey into, um, this work and, you know, the, the deep teachings and the deep trainings. I mean, you've been studying for decades now. You've written books. I read your book. It was amazing. And, um, I'm just so curious, like what, what early on got you, got you headed down this road?

Marguerite:

Yeah. You know, um, well, if you're talking about the road of Magdalene and the sexual healing of humanity, uh, that's kind of more recent. But if you're talking for me, you know, like the last couple of years since I've, I've taught a course on this, but, um, connecting with the Magdalene happened decades ago. Um, I'm trying to think, you know, 35 years ago, something like that. Connecting with Magdalene, connecting with Mother Mary, and then understanding what they were about sexually. Yes, that goes way back. But it started for with me, for, with understanding about the nature of, um, you know, divine birth, divine birth as like actually a sexual act.

Willow:

mm.

Marguerite:

So unlike how we have been led to believe about it, um, where it's, it has to do with virginity and, and, and lack of sexual feeling. It was actually a profoundly sexual act to engage in parthenogenesis the way Mother Mary did, the way her mother did, the way her Aunt Elizabeth mother of John the Baptist did. And the way, you know, numerous women throughout time priestesses have engaged. So that's a whole topic in and of itself. And then there's the topic of, you know, and I I, I've been at that, like I said, for decades.

Leah:

Well, let's start there. So,'cause I'm really curious about what led you to study that? How did you find these understandings where these teachings come from,

Willow:

and also when you say divine birth, you're, you're basically, talking about like immaculate conception and there's, there's sort of, a lot of people aren't familiar with the fact that it wasn't just Mother Mary who had that experience, that there were others in the ene lineage, which was a whole, um, spiritual, I dunno what to call it, a spiritual cult or sect. Sect, I would say. Yeah,

Marguerite:

Yeah. yeah, Well, you know, um, divine birth is what I call it.'cause immaculate conception is sort of a confusing church, uh, a confusing church doctrine and blah, blah. I won't even go there. But what I call it is divine birth. And there were various ways in which it happened. Some were partnered. Some were not partnered. So the not partnered part was Parthenogenesis where the woman had to be such an advanced adept with her sexual energy that she was able to be yin and yang within herself and literally conceive a very high level being. And the way I describe this as being sexual is her experience was ecstatic. It was like becoming one with the universe itself. It was, it was like the universe making love to itself would be that kind of experience of divine conception. Right? So powerfully erotic. And as I've investigated this, especially with Mother Mary, I realized, oh gosh, you know, she had to draw on her Kundalini heat. She had to draw on her inner womb fire. She had to, you know, draw on the, the powers of the universe and in order to have this conception happen at these quantum physics levels, we might call it. Right. And the way I can, I think some people might be able to understand this, is if you've ever had an altered state experience where you suddenly feel like you are one with the universe or you suddenly feel like you're one, some people have a, um, experiences of sex with Gods or things like that. It is, it's profoundly erotic. Right. And, and I've had that kind of experience. Like I really understood that how the Delphi Oracle received her oracles was to receive the energetic phallus of Apollo.

Willow:

Hmm.

Marguerite:

And, and that was like, whoa. You know, that's why they, these women had to be celibates at the time in terms of, they're not. They're not cavorting with men, human men. They had to belong to the God for that process, which, which was a sexual experience that would then open up their Oracle channel. Right? So there are many ways in which sexuality has been expressed and used in the ancient and modern worlds that we don't think of because it's been suppressed. Um, we don't look at, we don't look at it. We also don't look at, for example, in the ancient mysteries, why were the baskets that these initiates of would carry? Um, when they were going through like the Ellucian mysteries and so forth, why were they phalluses? You know, why? And there were, there were representations of vaginas, like pretty much life size, you know, what was that all about? So I'm the one who's lifted the lid on when people experienced the Ellucian mysteries in ancient Greece, which was an experience to have oneness with the goddess Demeter and, and the goddess for Persephone um, it was a, it was a sexual act that was initiatory for them. They, they would literally would have to insert a dildo into themselves while they're in this high altered state with the medicine that they were drinking in order to understand this sexual journey that they were gonna be on. That was akin to Persephone being abducted, quote unquote raped, quote unquote, into the underworld. Right. So the, I'm just giving you a little taster of all of these, many ways that sexuality has shown up in the ancient world, and, and we don't understand that. So, you know, going back to Mother Mary, having a profound cosmic orgasm when she is conceiving Jesus, that's what I think happened. And then there's a, a lineage of, of, of this Tantric conception that goes from Parth neurogenesis what Mother Mary did, all the way up to the sacred marriage rights that the kings and queens or kings and priestesses would engage in, in like, for example, ancient Egypt, where we have the stories that, oh, the pharaohs were born by the union of this priest king and this priestess coming together. That was a high Tantric activity. It was a kind of a divine birth because of the energies they were pulling in for those conceptions, but of course, very, very sexual, right? So there's, you know, there's sex has been hidden by the church, by academia, and along comes me and I'm like, wow, you know, not only is divine birth. Virgin birth real. But it is something that, um, had had a, a very deep sexual component. And then of course, if we look at Magdalene and Jesus, Magdalene and Yeshua, theirs was definitely the lover type, the sacred marriage type of sexuality, and would've had to have been very high Tantra for what they, the, the types of beings they wanted to bring in.

Willow:

So it's interesting, my mind kind of, I wanna, I wanna get our listeners kind of on the same page as us. My mind goes to, you know, we've talked about like in Tantra, there's, there's white Tantra where you're in practice, you're in union, you're self cultivating with, uh, nature or with the universe or with, um, yourself. Yeah. It's like, it's your own cultivation practice and solo practice. And so we talk about white Tantra is really important to, um, to bring. A fuller cup to a red Tantric practice, which is where you're practicing with another. So that's basically kind of what you're talking about. And Yeah, and I think it's, um, it's so, uh, profound to, you know, to, to think about. I mean, that's one of the things we're doing here on Sex Reimagined, is reimagining what is possible within sexuality and the energetics of sexuality that go far beyond the physicality. Um, I myself have had those experiences where it's like, I am just fucking the universe or being fucked by the universe and having like these incredible orgasmic, expansive, rapturous experiences haven't been able to, conceive through those, thank God, because I don't want to conceive, but, what a higher level of adeptness that, you know, that those women were practicing. And also they were in a time where it's like that's what they were doing. You know, they were living together in sisterhood, in union to really cultivate such deep profound and ancient sexual practices. You know, we talk about in the Taoist, tradition, you know that a lot of the, there's a practice called turning back the blood where you can actually stop your menstrual cycle and you stay that age, whatever age you stop it at. But you know, you gotta

Leah:

kind of like the equivalent of semen retention, but

Marguerite:

my God. I

Leah:

a female perspective,

Marguerite:

That

Willow:

But you know, in order to be able to do that, you gotta be living in the monastery, you know, eating with all the other women and just doing tons of

Leah:

lots of purification practices.

Willow:

stress allowed, no sugar allowed, you know,

Marguerite:

makes so much sense to me that I'm, you're like blowing doors wide open in my mind. Like these were the original, um, holy orders for women, right? They were hardly repressive. They were, in fact, very much the woman was controlling, learning how to control her powers, learning how to activate, you know, and then it degenerated into lack of sexual feeling, shutting off of the sexual feeling, virginity as an, a asexual path, anti-sexual path. And we all have these past life disturbing memories of that, right? And then the church really capitalized on that because they need to shut down women's wombs so that we can't access that power. That's how these patriarchal forces that are governed by negative interdimensional beings, if you will, um, you know, control the planet. They've shut down all the sexual centers of women and men, but especially women because women do not need men in order to have their womb opened and be able to do these empowering things from impregnation all the way to sending out lines of healing through the universe, um, you know, healing others, uh, sending out forces of creativity and manifestation, right? So they have, they have wanted to shut that down. And, and this is why also Sri Klei, the late Hindu saint, was gathering all these materials, these mantras and these yantras, these drawings from the ancient palm leaf manuscripts to say, Hey, there's a whole ancient empowering practice that the seven rishis, the rishis were keeping undercover for all of us, um, that have to do with the holy womb chakra system of the womb as its own chakra. Right? And so, a lot, you know, I've been teaching this, I've been using this, I healed myself. I've numerous uterine things with this um, I've, I've seen it with others. Um, I mean, there's just so much, so many angles we could talk about here. I'm, I'm just trying to give out some, you know, splats.

Leah:

I think it's really interesting that there is this ancient energetic technology that us as modern people are very ignorant, even exists. People still have a hard time believing that energy even exists, was kind of boggles my mind. I'm like, we're we're just these really fast moving molecules that are filled with energy. We are energy, we're electromagnetic fields. How can energy not affect us? But because we can't see it, we have a hard time believing it. Until you start to feel it, then it becomes unquestionable. What's coming to mind for me is, uh, Theresa Avila, St. Teresa of Avila, who also had her own spiritual experiences of feeling the seven internal castles and feeling the serpent rising very reminiscent of Kundalini awakening and the, the association with Chakras is really fascinating. Here. We have an ancient Catholic mystic who is having these experiences of making love to Jesus on an energetic level, and her priest as she believes, it's like I'm something's wrong with me. And the per priest thinks it may be the devil is telling her, you just need to fast more. You just need to fast more. Well, what's fasting gonna do, but bring on more spiritual, energetic

Marguerite:

That's right. That's right.

Leah:

prayers.

Marguerite:

Well, I love, I love women. These angles that you're getting, I mean, you're, you're coming in from various perspectives and looking at Theresa of Avila or the nun hoods or whatever. I mean, this is amazing. It feel like, I feel like it's worlds coming together just in this conversation, validating one another and understanding on so many multidimensional levels, what you both have been talking about for years. And what I have, I mean, this is very cool,

Leah:

Now I do have a question about, and I, for some reason, my Midwest tongue has butchers this every time Lium say the temple

Marguerite:

the Ellucian Mysteries from Lucius

Leah:

Yeah. So we've been there. I've been there. Have you been there?

Marguerite:

Yes.

Leah:

so my husband's obsessed with this. Uh, we're Willow and I, uh, are taking a group of women to Greece. We're taking

Marguerite:

Oh my God.

Leah:

um, to, uh, Santorini on a pilgrimage of the primordial goddess. And so we're really excited to do that. I wish we had time to take them to the temple, but we don't. but my husband and I will visit it again. Well, we're extending our trip a bit. And so I'm curious how you felt when you visited this, this holy site.

Marguerite:

Alright, well first of all, recommendation suggested reading. You might wanna get my book called Virgin Mother Goddesses of Antiquity,

Leah:

Okay,

Marguerite:

and the whole second half is the chapter on Demeter and Persephone. The Thes Euphoria Mysteries. The Ellucian Mysteries, and my whole analysis of what went on and how sexual that was,

Willow:

Mm. Cool.

Leah:

I

Marguerite:

scholar has even been able to address it because they can't, it's so well argued that they can't shut it down, but they just ignore it. Because I'm telling, I'm saying that, well, the people use dildos and

Leah:

I mean, they have those in museums. It's, it's not like

Marguerite:

They're all

Leah:

don't exist or that women are somehow un sexualized. We still have this really archaic belief that women's sexuality is basically male sexuality only the light version, which could not be further from the truth.

Marguerite:

That's right. Especially'cause in this mystery, it was the opposite. Male sexuality had to become the female sexuality. In the, in the right, the men would insert the phallus in their anus. And it was, um, so the, the normative was the woman receiving the phallus in the vagina. So secondarily, the men would have, because it was a whole women, women mystery, the mother daughter, goddesses, Demeter and Persephone. It was there, it was the shakta universe that was being accessed there. So the men had to come in line. And in fact, the, the Caesar, one of the Caesars had to take on the feminine form of his name after he had this initiation be, and the, the sacred priest, the y infant, would have to be symbolically castrated by drinking hemlock as part of this ritual. He had to become a woman. So this was a whole woman, woman thing, right? Finally, yeah. You know, the, the, the female sexuality was, was the baseline for this experience.

Leah:

Now, how did you come about this information? How'd you, is this something that you've channeled? Is this something that you've researched through academia? What's been your

Marguerite:

I just researched it. I just researched it. That El Mysteries piece. I researched it, uh, I looked at all the pieces and even the virgin birth stuff, I researched it and I realized I put a, now it initially came as a flash of insight. Oh my God. Virgin birth is real. You know, one day I was in my brother's apartment in 2001, I was like, boom. I had read this book and I was in this open state and I was like, my god, virgin birth is real. And then I was looking at all of this information about ancient priestesses of Egypt uh, of Greece. And I started finding boatloads of information to support the idea that virgin birth was real. That it had been going on in the ancient, ancient Greek time, the Egyptian time, you know, all over ancient Sumer, et cetera. And, um, so it was like. It was like the intuition was the spark that put hydrogen and oxygen together and created water, for me. The water was the truth of virgin birth and the whole analysis of the Priestess Hoods, right, or what was going on at Lucius. Right. And, and it all started coming together. It made total sense of disparate pieces of information that no scholar had really been able to make sense of. And all of a sudden I come up with this theory that is like the complete theory of everything, and that even the Ellucian mysteries had a very strong divine conception and birth process associated with it. That was part of the ritual as well. The high priestess would be periodically conceiving a child, which is, um, the, the Dion Isis, the little, the little Dion Isis that would come out of this, uh, this

Leah:

ritualistic sex.

Marguerite:

Um, well, not really, because the high priest was castrated through hemlock. So he didn't have an erection presumably during this thing. She's basically engaging in parth, neurogenetic, um, con

Leah:

par Parto genetic.

Marguerite:

parthenogenesis comes from Parnoss, which means virgin, Virgin or maiden and gni to be born. So parthenogenesis to be born of a virgin or a maiden. But really it was the title of these sacred priestesses who were schooled in divine conception technologies originally.

Leah:

Okay.

Willow:

Hmm.

Marguerite:

And so that's why Mother Mary is called a parnoss in the Bible and so forth.

Leah:

So I wanna also, um, talk about what is virginity

Marguerite:

Yeah,

Leah:

we, you know, when we look at virginity means has not been penetrated by a penis. Men, boys can be virgins, girls can be virgins. Though many times women are going to be penetrated with something other than a penis before they're penetrated by a penis. Um, also we can be penetrated by dildos. We can be penetrated by fingers. What does that mean for our virginity? Then we have the misunderstanding of what a hymen is. A hymen has no biological function. It is not the meaning of virginity like we teach it. Um, a hymen is actually one of these leftover pieces when between, um, like we've got tissue that biologically makes no sense. For instance, men having nipples. There is no biological function for male nipples. They're, they don't nurse right? By and large. We do know

Willow:

in some

Leah:

I know, I know. But it's very, very, very, very teeny. It's not a widespread biological thing and there's a lot of things that have to do to make that work. A lot of biological circumstances. In any event, the hymen is the same thing from my understanding um, from the book, come As You Are, the hymen is actually something that was connected to the male prostate, which has no function in a woman and a woman having a female prostate, which actually comes before the male prostate, which is what we now consider the G-spot. The hymen also can be perforated. It can be partially there. Women who are post menopause can still have their hymen. So the hymen as a symbol of virginity is a total construct. It it, it is meaningless. Um, and so I'm curious, when you use the word virgin, what exactly are we referring to? And is virginity even real, if I imagine virginity to be real, it's like this weird, a, a penis has to go into a vagina for the first time, and we've got all sorts of people who are not attracted to the opposite sex. So, or do they remain virgins their whole life because they've never been penetrated by a penis, so on and so forth.

Marguerite:

Yeah. I mean, these are great questions, and in my very first book, the Cult of Divine Birth in Ancient Greece, I talk extensively about the meaning of virginity and the meaning of that word parnoss, you know, and parth neurogenesis. And, and what it means. And what it comes down to is that these parnoss refers to a woman who had chosen the path of, um, inner Tantra. Okay. Now she would need to refrain from having sexual intercourse with a man. Um, as a part of that, because the insertion of the phallus would disrupt her whole si whole, her whole sovereign system for this particular type of practice, right? So these women would be celibates for various periods or various periods of time. And celibacy, virginity was renewable. And that's one thing we learned of from the, the, the, uh, goddesses, statues, like Herra would have her virginity renewed every year. It literally, like in India, Nandu Menon would talk about Hi in Kerala. His aunties would restore a woman's virginity after rape. Like there are energetic techniques to release all that energy and all also the holy room chakra mantras that I talk about, they release any previous energy that you've had from anyone, touch insertion, whatever it is, phs, whatever. So, um,

Leah:

like you can sort of be born again

Marguerite:

yeah. Yep. You can be ified, reified, and, and these women would sometimes engage in high sex rights and then they would restore return to their virginity. Okay. And then they would res, you know, do it again. But they weren't like having sex all the time with male partners or, or things like that. And there's a whole, I talk about in the cult of divine birth in ancient Greece and virgin mother goddesses of antiquity, that there were these. Sisterhoods, these priestess hoods that were lesbian in, in sexual orientation, the ones that were associated with Artemis and the ones that were associated with Athena, and particularly Artemis, suggesting that these girls would learn sexual feeling, sexual energy in groups with other girls as part of

Leah:

the sexuality between the the priestesses

Marguerite:

As part of this priestess training? So they learned sexual energy, but they connected it with women, you know, so they connected it with women and, um, it was a whole thing related to, to these goddesses that were like, we don't want the phallus anywhere near us, because those are connected with the negative reptilian forces, and we don't want that.

Leah:

Oh, that's too bad.

Marguerite:

Well, you know.

Leah:

imagine that there were male devotees there to also service the priestesses and all the pleasures that they could have

Marguerite:

Potentially, yes.

Leah:

different, maybe different periods of time,

Willow:

Well, but it does make, it does make sense that, you know, women would learn about their sexuality since it is such a different style of sexuality from other women who, I mean, that's kind of what we're doing at our Greece retreat. We're not having like lesbian orgies, but we're like helping, you know, women who, who are not very, um, far along their sexual.

Leah:

Or who are,

Willow:

and relationship with themselves. We're mixing those with people who are really far along their journey and have a very close relationship with themselves and, and the expo with the expectation that like it's going to infuse. I mean, I just, a total side note, the other night I went to a hand pan drumming party with like 15 people and some are super fucking good. Like they really know what they're doing. They have$6,000 handpan and I'm like a beginner, you know, but like just being in the field and drumming with all of those other people, while it didn't sound good for like the first half of the time, you know, by the end there was some synergy and I started to like, just things

Leah:

Find the rhythm

Willow:

me.

Leah:

knowledge being passed to your system.

Willow:

So I mean, we say it all the time, like if you want to uplevel your system in some way, whether that's in sexuality or, or financially or, or health wise, in any way, put your body next to somebody that you know has that, and it just transmits.

Leah:

right.

Marguerite:

that. That is so amazing. I feel like, wow, we just went down roads upon roads. I don't, I don't know where we began in the, in the conversation, but um, that is so interesting to me and I love how you're going to be in Greece working with women in this way. Oh my god. You know, like, I wish that, that's amazing. Um,

Willow:

Yeah,

Leah:

Yeah, it's exciting. I think when women can turn towards their own bodies, and especially into their own womb space, to discover a felt sense towards their own inner guidance, to their own wisdom portal, because through this shared womb experience as Volvo owning bodies, we can tap into an ancient. Wisdom that we've got access to it's just most of our mothers didn't know that and didn't know how to turn us towards that so that we can start self-referencing instead of other referencing to really find the answers that are the most authentic path forward as we are encountering obstacles in our life, hardship, um, pain, suffering, but also bliss and joy, and learn how to amplify that bliss and joy and run that system through our bodies so that we can then run that to all sectors of our life. I think we're all literally sitting on a well of power and a spiritual insight that we just need to learn how to tap into and, and then we can

Willow:

your yoniverse.

Marguerite:

That's right.

Willow:

open it up.

Marguerite:

what you, what you women are saying. I mean, what you're doing is so amazing. I mean, this is definitely new compared to what was going on 30 years ago. I could tell you that much. It makes sense is like these next steps and you're figuring it out. You've put it all together. You've received your own information on this. You're pulling from different parts of the Akashic Records library. It's just extraordinary. I mean, we so need this.

Willow:

Yeah.

Leah:

Yeah, we do need a return to this ancient wisdom that these mystery schools, uh, knew so much more about and had so many more decades and generations practice. Now, my understanding is also in the Tantric, school, more in the Indus Valley perhaps than in, than in Greece, is that it was also these priestesses that taught men the sexual arts. So the training actually passed down from the priestesses to the boys so that they could understand the art of love, because most people are gonna be householders, most people are not gonna be serving in the temples, they're going to be having families. And, and so how do you prepare how to have this high active love making, so that everyday people can also have an experience of a rich spiritual life. And so, you know, Tantra being one of the only yogas that saw sexual union as a permissible part of spiritual evolution. And so I'm curious what you know about how the priestesses served the community.

Marguerite:

Right. First of all, that's amazing. I mean, what I personally know is, is in recent decades, you know, I, I knew at least one or more African American women who felt that they came from matriarchal cultures and heritages, um, in ChemED and other parts of Africa and so forth. And they would say to me, oh yeah, we, the older women initiate the younger men into sex. Because

Willow:

so much

Marguerite:

yeah, because of exactly what you're saying. So this is like a long time matriarchal practice in the sense of matriarchy not being like an abusive female oriented system, but rather a system of balance that has women at the center. Right.

Leah:

is it balance if we're trying to take men and have them operate sexually from this feminine perspective? I mean, I'm certainly all about anal penetration for men and their pleasure, but, um, in terms of how is that balancing. Versus complementing.

Marguerite:

Right. Well, first of all, I mean, this goes into the whole discussion of what is matriarchy, and I've studied this extensively. Okay. But, um, matriarchy is not the reverse of patriarchy as we know it. Patriarchy is an abusive system governed by yang and oftentimes male forces. Um, who are out of control, out of balance in themselves, suppressing anything that isn't male and isn't, you know, of a certain culture, whatever down the line. And then suppressing native peoples and animals and children and all this and that. Okay. That's kind of how we've grown up with patriarchy. But matriarchy as it as it is originally in, um, informed and, and practiced, and there are still matriarchies around the world, is a society of peace. It's a society of balance. It's a society of complimentary roles. You know, it's not like, oh, in matriarchy all the women are driving, you know, the tractors and no, you know, like they're doing their role. The men are doing their role, but there's no problem there. Okay. Um, because everything is in balance. Everything is in harmony. It's a whole different to social structure where the children are raised in group fashion, you know, all this. So in certain matriarchies it would be natural for, well, sexuality is far more frank and there may not even be anything such as marriage or such as certainly not nuclear family marriage, monogamous marriage, you know? Um, and so if right now we, because of how patriarchy has distorted our sexuality so much, you really can need the balancing of the female initiat to the young men to under, for them to understand.'cause otherwise, where are they gonna learn it? We know where they're learning it,

Willow:

in, in more recent history, you know, it was, it was pretty traditional for, for fathers to bring their young boys to the, you know, to the prostitutes in order to learn about sexuality. And there, and there was like, there was sacred prostitution and there was profane prostitution. There's, you know, all these different

Marguerite:

exactly. To get back to your, your question, Leah, about the priestessing. Yes. There is some evidence that there was sacred prostitution. WW were sacred Tantra, you know, um, not prostitution. I mean, there were, there were these women and men actually in the Hebrew temples, you can find that in kings and, you know, various places in, in the, the Hebrew Bible. Okay? There was sexual activity in these temples, and then there is, um, evidence that that certain priestesses of Aphrodite might have been practicing this kind of thing. There is potential evidence that there were women in the Roman times who would soothe the soldiers who came back from war in these ways. Okay. And whenever in, in the academic world, you know, when I was in academia and trying to, um, promote this idea, oh my God, that the amount of hostility that that I'd be met with was, was really quite something. But, um, it really feels like, you know, these, these priestesses of Aphrodite in particular were involved in this kind of thing and, and hopefully there's been updated scholarship on this to really look at what was going on. But yes,

Willow:

Yeah. One of the,

Marguerite:

is part of spirituality. Big deal.

Willow:

one of the things you just mentioned, I, I wanna highlight, which is that, you know, men would come back from war and before they could go home to their families and their homes and their communities, they would go through the temples and be cleansed by the sacred sexual rights. Right. They would be healed, they would be cleansed, they would be

Leah:

In order to be fit for society again. Yeah. And return to their

Willow:

imagine if we did that to soldiers coming back these days. What a different

Marguerite:

God, you know,

Willow:

I mean,

Marguerite:

Yes, exactly. And you know what? And here's the thing. Even if you can't make the historical case that that was happening, it's such a wise great idea that it's something we do need to do. We know that it would create healing.

Willow:

Yeah, absolutely. How much better do you feel after you have an amazing orgasm? How much more open, how much more smiley, how much more connected? Like you've got oxytocin flowing through your body, all the, cortisol is out and you're ready to receive the gifts of the universe? I think even in, um, in marriage, like way back in ancient times, the, the, the women would go and they would have to go through these sacred sexual rights to prepare their bodies. Like instead of going into marriage as a virgin, you would have to go have a sexual rights experience in order to prepare your body for this sacred act of marriage and union, which I think is fascinating.

Leah:

Yeah, you learn about having some orgasms, so you actually have orgasms when you get,

Willow:

when you're

Marguerite:

Well, you know, I mean,'cause that's a whole big thing, you know, and all. And also, I mean, well there's just been a lot of interference with our orgasms on a lot of levels by a lot of different types of beings. And one thing we haven't actually even talked about yet is what's in the gnostic gospels. About the origin of, of sexual misery with humanity at the inception of the splitting of the sexes, the splitting of the original androgyn into Adam and Eve. Okay? That was a nice little trick of these negative forces, so that this idea of of eve coming out of Adam's rib was a garbled way of describing that these negative forces had taken the whole human body and had split it. Okay? That's in a number of different traditions into male and female when we used to be one whole, okay? So then that created a problem. They split the sexes into male and female, and then these beings, these negative angelic forces raped both of them. Eve got raped, Adam got raped. It started pity, and it started rape on the human family that is in the gnostic gospels.

Willow:

Mm.

Marguerite:

So we

Willow:

that very

Marguerite:

No, you don't.

Leah:

well, you don't get to hear about the gnostic uh, gospels very often. That's probably why.

Marguerite:

that, that's right. You know, like it's all in there. It's all in there. And I'm like, that's, you know, the course that I taught about sa Sacred Sexual Healing, and the, the gift that I have for everybody here is teases all that out so you can find out what was said. Where, how, oh my God. You know why? I mean, because this is even in the Greek tradition that the sexes were split way back.

Willow:

Yeah, I wanna talk a little bit, I was just getting into your free gift, um, earlier this morning and I, I wanna kind of talk a a little bit around, maybe kind of go down a different road, slightly around, um, how the union of, of Mary Magdalene and Yeshua, like, like, and their, their Tantric union and, and even the fact that they didn't get to be together their whole life long. Right? They were often doing their own priestessing and priest work out in the world, and then they would come together and they could do energetic love making as well, so they didn't have to be together in order to be in union with one another. And I personally have had some really profound experiences like in the carow keels of Ireland. I was, I was out in the middle of, of nowhere. Um. Looking for these caves, these space, basically these ancient burial tombs and, um, you know, got lost and couldn't find my way and had no fucking cell phone and nobody knew where I was. Just me and the sheep out in the middle of fucking nowhere, right in

Marguerite:

a lot of them over there.

Willow:

of sheep yacht. And I, and I

Leah:

about biblical.

Willow:

Yeah, totally, totally. And I was like, where are these things? And I got off the trail and then I couldn't, and I was like, okay, spirit just guide me. And spirit guided me a direction that I didn't think was the right direction, but I just kept going that way. And I found this church and, um, I just stood there. It was like a, a ruins of an old church. And so I just stood there for a long time and just listened and, and felt, and until the spirit was like, go this way. And so then I went this other way and I, I was, and it was getting dark and the rain was starting to come down and like I was just, I should have figured out where I was gonna, I was gonna get back to the car, you know? And, um, and so finally I did find the ancient burial ground. And at that point it was pelting rain and, and it was getting really windy and dark and, and it was cold. Yes.

Marguerite:

cold

Willow:

It's always cold in Ireland.

Leah:

that's gonna be my first question, and

Marguerite:

Yeah. I know. I'm vada and it's just like, oh my God, this sounds like a

Willow:

Yes, totally. Oh Yeah. I'm always cold. I'm freezing all the

Marguerite:

I am freezing

Willow:

why I moved to Santa Barbara so I could have warm feet, you

Marguerite:

yeah. Good for you.

Willow:

so so there I was. I like, I finally found it and I was like, gosh, should I, should I go in and you have to kind of like, get on your butt and scoot down and get dropped down into this ancient tomb. And so I did. And, uh, and I, and at first, like my heart was pumping, it was pitch black, couldn't see a thing in there, my heart's pumping and I just felt. Fear, like so much fear. And then I started to breathe more deeply and like calm myself and just started to touch the walls of this ancient tomb, right, with like all this energy in it. And you know, I'm such an energy whore, so I was just like feeling it. And then I started to sing and the singing really calm my nervous system. And then I just sat down on the ground for a long time and this was probably like a two hour event. I sat down on the ground and I just. Listened and felt. And eventually, um, Inana came to my back, who's always been one of my goddesses. You know, one of

Leah:

One of your OGs, geez.

Willow:

one of my OGs since before I knew what a fucking goddess was when I was a kid. I don't know where she came from. She's always been with me. So she came to my back and she was just like, I got you. I'm holding your back a lean into me. And so I started to just like have these cre waves of orgasmic bliss and pleasure, which basically opened my legs, opened my yoni, opened my womb, and then I felt this like warm penetrating ballas of energy up through Myoni and all the way up through my whole Shana Nadi, which is the chakra line. And, um, and, and I was like. What is that? And it was, and it was, and it just, Yeshua was what came, you know? And so it was like I was in a cosmic yab yum. With Yeshua and Anana running the microcosmic orbit. I mean, it was one of the most profound Tantric experiences of my life. And so I know the value of like, you know, being in union with these, um, like primordial forces, but I want you to share with our audience what's possible through your teachings and what could open up

Leah:

Yeah, for like the modern day person, what's possible?

Marguerite:

yeah.

Willow:

not modern at all.

Marguerite:

You know, neither am I really, apparently.

Leah:

are of the modern. You live in the modern age, which you know, by definition makes you a modern person, even if you are an old, ancient

Willow:

Sold.

Marguerite:

that's right. I, I remember it all from the past. Um, well, unfortunately there's nothing in my classes that's gonna give people that kind of experience. However, um, it might be able

Willow:

information Yeah.

Marguerite:

and, and for prepare people. For that, because sometimes the knowing is like 50% of the way to those orgasmic waves. And then, you know, mantra practices and that I off also offer through the holy womb chakra teachings. I, I really believe in it. I mean, it will clear you out, you know, it will clear out heartache, clear out all that unwanted touch, you know, everything. So there, there are stages of preparation and, and I think what I offer are more the initial stages of preparation and what you ladies clearly, amazingly are doing and experiencing are the actual, um, you know, orgasmic, uh, journeys, right? That you're, that you're helping people to go on, which is the needed part of it. We do need to actually then physically get into our yonis and do it right. So, um, you know, that's what I would say, but I, but I think there is so much information we need to have, and that's why I, I have that gift, meet Magdalene and Jesus as your sexual guides. if, if people end up taking the sacred relationship in sexual healing with Magdalene and Jesus course, there's also an amazing, um, workshop that's part, it's a bonus seminar called The Travesty of Sexual Abuse and Abduction, and How to Clear It from Your Field and the Human Matrix. Okay, so all of this, what I was talking about earlier, so all of this stuff goes together and I just love how, you know, there are, there have been, and there are especially women of younger generations now taking this stuff into the actual physical practices. No more just Yantra mantra practices. No more just thinking about it, but actually getting into our wombs, doing these things, having the safe touch, you know? So I really honor you for that. It's so, so needed.

Willow:

Yeah. Well, I wanna honor you for like really bringing this information forth because I wouldn't have had that experience if I hadn't gotten, if I hadn't read books and gotten that, you know, some, some

Leah:

the insight of what exists.

Willow:

all of that previous to that experience. And so when I was reading your book that you sent me, um, the one that was so deep on Mother Mary, oh my.

Marguerite:

of Mother

Willow:

This secret life of Mother Mary. Fuck. I fell in love with Mother Mary all over again. It was really powerful. And for someone who grew up in the Catholic religion, you know, in the, in the Christian and Catholic church, like my dad is a Mr. Bible, you know, Mr. Catholic man, and my whole family, my, my grandparents had 15 kids.'cause they didn't believe in birth

Marguerite:

Whoa.

Willow:

big fucking Catholic family and like in a small town, you know. And so I, but the whole time I would sit in the church, I'd be like, this is wrong. Like this isn't right. Like my cells could feel it, you know? And, and I've been able to go down the track like a spiritual track and an opening and an awakening track to like, oh, there was truth here, but it's just, it's this other, this is what it feels like to me. This is what feels like truth to me. And so it feels like all, like I can relate to my dad in this really cool, unique, special way. I have to keep certain things under wraps, you know, but like we can still, um, bond over that, like over Jesus, you

Marguerite:

that's right.

Willow:

the power of Jesus.

Marguerite:

I know because of the work that I'm, the work that I'm doing is really allowing people to reclaim the true EE essence nature of Mary Magdalene, of Mother Mary, of Yeshua, the, the stream, the eternal stream that's under all those, you know, religious formations that, that started ensnaring us and everything. You know, so if people can meet you down there, then you know you have something to talk about and Right. People come in from all different angles though. Um,

Leah:

Yeah, I have, I have to, I have to say Willow, it's always so sweet. Like I feel the emotion in you like rising and like the real tenderness that this lives inside of you with like the connection to your dad. And I think that's just so beautiful. I just want, I'm just having this moment of just like being utterly in love with you right now. Feeling all the love that's like swimming in your system, in relationship to like your dad who's like really the first guy we ever get to fall in love with. And you have such a special connection to yours. And so I'm just like letting you know, I'm feeling all your feels. It's like really yummy. Uh,

Willow:

I had such a deep experience this morning.

Marguerite:

Oh,

Leah:

You wanna share about it?

Willow:

kind of. But I'm just gonna be weepy the whole time.

Marguerite:

Uh, but see, this is part of the healing. this is part. of the healing of the feminine and the masculine. So, you know, these

Willow:

was just doing my normal beach walk this morning with my little dog river in Montecito. I'm waking up in Montecito these days daring, and it's very posh and lovely. So anyway, there I was and I was like, man, what is this fear? You know, fear, where is, it's in the pit of my stomach. And I did a whole somato emotional release on myself, and underneath the fear was like this longing, which was a shadow. The, the shadow of longing is not having Right. And it was like,

Marguerite:

Hmm.

Willow:

it was, it is just so deep. It was like the, the, the, the not having of of partner of man right In my life. Yet. And so

Marguerite:

that.

Leah:

Yeah.

Willow:

and so, um, so I went to that longing, which like the, the true longing is just aeros, it's drive, it's desire. It keeps me going. It keeps me reaching, you know, and exploring. And, um, and so this, uh, this longing, I started talking to it and it was like, well, you have everything you long for already.

Marguerite:

Hmm.

Willow:

And, you know, and then my dad came in, which is like, you know, I have like the best dad in the world.

Marguerite:

Oh, bless

Leah:

amazing men in your life.

Willow:

Yeah, amazing brothers, amazing dad.

Marguerite:

gorgeous.

Willow:

And then like, I had just been with my dad for two days and we had just been talking about like how, you know, God loves his children. Like, so he wants to give them everything that, that they want, you know, that they desire, that they have arrows for, so it's a cycle. Actually, the longing is, is just, it's the, it's the, that you have it already, so there's actually no lack shadow to it Anyway, I was just walking on the beach crying and like this

Marguerite:

so,

Willow:

deep

Leah:

ecstasy,

Willow:

Totally.

Leah:

pleasure all wrapped up in one.

Marguerite:

I know. You know, the gnostic, uh, sacrament, there was a gnostic sacrament called the bridal chamber, where the woman, the each person would have to come and feel their wholeness. They would, they would come to that feeling of wholeness, so that they were walking around feeling whole, which is the actual meaning of virginity. It's feeling whole. Being whole, being sovereign is being complete. Right. Not half, but being whole, getting the opposite. That was split when Adam and Eve were split apart. So it sounds like you're doing all this play and work for yourself, and that that fragrance wonderfulness of partnership is just gonna come to you at some point. You know, if you've had it, you'll have it again. Right. You know? And so just the, right now you're in the longing phase, but, um, how wonderful that you're just sort of mining it for all of its juice.

Willow:

I was like, siphoning out. I was like, okay, what I feel is like this big, vast round thing. And I was like, oh, it's a cauldron. And it's this cauldron of sorrow of not having, of all the years of longing, of being with the wrong partner, of the lineage of that, of my, you know, women who came before me, of all the women of all the world. I'm, you know, living in a, a situation with a couple women right now. And it's like the, the, the not having and the longing and all the story around it or being with the wrong partner and all the sorrow and I was just like pulling all this layers and layers of sorrow out and underneath all of that was like, if you long for something, you actually have it

Leah:

Yeah, I think, I think what's so interesting and what's so ironic is, and just the art of longing, right? Because there is the light side of longing that has all that aeros in it, and for those people who are in relationships who could use some longing to sex up the juice right in the relationship and who manufacture longing through sometimes cheating and jealousy and some of this other stuff that leaks out because what they really wanna feel again, is the yearning.

Willow:

for

Marguerite:

Yes.

Leah:

yearning. And so how can we bring more consciousness to cultivating longing?'cause longing is also built on anticipation. And sometimes the best part of sex is the anticipation of sex. I think a lot of, for vulva owning bodies, it's like, oh God, make me beg for it. Like, get so close that I just wanna rip your head off if you don't touch it. You know? But like, really expand that, that lengthen that out for me so that I can crawl out of my skin instead of feeling like you're coming at it so fast that I gotta back up and there's no longing to sink into. So isn't it so cool that longing means so much and it's sometimes it's an obstacle that we have to overcome in order to fully indulge. And sometimes it's a thing that we have to cultivate in order to expand. And other times it's a thing that we have to grieve and get lost in. It's just, it's so rich as a

Marguerite:

My God.

Leah:

Um. You know, one of the things, if I can just pivot just a little bit, uh, as we wrap up today, is the use of sacraments, right? Because I think a lot of people do have these god transcendent experiences and sex, and when they have them or if they've had them, it's been under the influence oftentimes of a psychedelic. Um, I probably, my last experience of feeling this, if we were gonna call it a, a virgin birth, happened to me when I did Bufo. And through the experience of DMT, I went into that letting go into that medicine with the realization that I was fucking God. And as I was coming out of my experience fully and full rapture with the divine. And thankfully somebody videoed me, uh, in this experience, you can see my body in the full movement of this crazy epic sex, which then as my conscious awareness grew more lucid and more lucid, then I was in the throes of giving birth to God. So I had this full

Marguerite:

There's Mother Mary.

Leah:

God and then ending the journey, giving birth to God, and then just weeping like sobs of the earth coming out of me at the end of it, having found a certain kind of wholeness, uh, in the letting go of something really painful. And I didn't have all the, didn't have the full narrative of the story of whatever was being shared. I just trusted that whatever I was letting go of was of epic proportions.

Marguerite:

it was, I mean, both of you, like all of us, you were doing work for the collective, you know, for like timelines and amazing, you know, and I, I kind of, that's what I was saying at the very beginning. It's kind of a good way to conclude, you know, that Mother Mary had something of that. You know, I, I've often thought of writing a blog or something called Mother Mary's Orgasm, but I

Willow:

Ah, I love that. That sounds good. Yeah.

Marguerite:

right. That's the way. Um, yeah. Uh, but because I, there had to be such a cosmic explosion, um, or implosion, really. It

Leah:

this interview Mary. Mother Mary. Mother. Mother Mary's orgasm.

Marguerite:

Do what you'll, I write whatever you think is best. You are the ladies to do it clearly. Um, but yeah, you know, that. And then how, how interesting

Leah:

flash all of a sudden.

Marguerite:

well, you know, uh, I'm gonna sit around you two, you know, like you were saying, be around people that are your mentors. Okay. You guys, you ladies, you women are my mentors. Um. But, um, but it's so interesting to me how like right as you were having all of those waves, then all of a sudden you were giving birth to God.

Willow:

Yeah,

Marguerite:

Parth Agenesis right there.

Willow:

is, yeah,

Leah:

yeah. ding.

Marguerite:

So we've come full circle in a topic that you didn't know if it was off

Leah:

I didn't even know the name.

Marguerite:

it's just like, no, we can, Gar Roxy And I are like, we can guarantee you it's gonna be on topic. There are so many topics.

Leah:

God. I love it. So tell us, uh, please give us the titles of your book so that people can

Marguerite:

Okay. So the most recent is as, as you were mentioning, Willow, the secret life of Mother Mary. And that's, that's just

Willow:

Great.

Marguerite:

taking the veils off of her understanding who she was really and who she is now still for us. Right. Healer, mentor, spiritual guide. Prior to that was the mystery tradition of miraculous conception. That's about what is this virgin birth business all about? Who was doing it and how was Mother Mary involved in this? Which was a huge tradition that had been going on for thousands of years. Alright, and then prior to that, are the two academic books that I mentioned, the Cult of Divine Birth and Ancient Greece, which talks a lot about what is virginity, who are these virgin priestesses? What were they doing in Greece? I don't even talk about Mother Mary there, who are the Vestal virgins? And then Virgin mother goddesses of antiquity, where half the book is all about the Ellucian mysteries, that death rebirth experience as a very sexual one that also had a divine conception process in it. So those are the four books as of right now. And

Willow:

they can all be found on your website or Yeah, on

Marguerite:

They can all be found on Amazon. The last two are inaudible. Yes. The first two, no, they're, they're high, you know, more academic, very readable and interesting. But the, the second two are very, very readable. Like they're very grounded, but people can read them like ch ch ch and it's, it's opening up doorways for people.

Willow:

That's

Leah:

will have all of these links in the show notes, which you can find on our website. So, uh, if you're listening to this episode right now, maybe you're on Apple, maybe you're on Spotify, maybe you're listening on YouTube, uh, just click on the show notes. We'll have a link directly so you can get all these goodies and including a link for the free gift.

Willow:

Yeah, That's right. This free gift is amazing. Don't let it go.

Marguerite:

Yeah. That

Leah:

if you've really, if you've enjoyed this episode, this is your moment right now, look at your phone and click subscribe. Click like, and give us a comment. What did you get out of this program today? What are you excited about? What is this making you think of? How is your upbringing different than all the information we just, uh, laid down for you today? Because it is, if it's like ours, it's a real, we didn't grow up with any of this stuff, so it's kind of, it's interesting, right? So share with us what you know about some of these mystical sexual realms and, uh, let's keep the conversation going. Now, remember, the show is not over. Stay tuned because Dr. Willow and I are gonna do the dish and we're gonna dish it up folks, thank you so much, Margurite, for being our guest

Marguerite:

Oh, thank you so much for having me. I mean, we had so many obstacles to this happening because of the intensity. They're like, no, we don't want that information out. And now it's like, oh my God. Connecting up religion and sexuality. I don't know. here we are. are. what, it's where we're going.

Willow:

Yeah. Thank

Marguerite:

And blessings you on your amazing work. Wow.

Leah:

Okay, love, love, love

Marguerite:

Bye

Leah:

cia.

Marguerite:

bye.

Announcer:

Now our favorite part, the dish.

Willow:

Okay, here we go. So Marguerite Rigoglioso Yso. It's a very Italian name. Yeah. And I loved it. Rigoglioso. I,

Leah:

Yeah.

Willow:

I loved it at the end when she got all, um, Jewish, Italian

Leah:

Uhhuh.

Willow:

ma New York Mama

Leah:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Willow:

Um, yeah, I mean, what a fun conversation for me. You know, I'm such a geek about all this stuff. I've been following the, the Rose codes and the Magdalene lineage for, for decades it feels like. And, um, and have read so many books that have really lit up my relationship to Tantra through the.

Leah:

That lens.

Willow:

Through that lens. And I think also, you know, being raised Catholic and, and then making sense of, and just being like, oh, they're just like, a lot of ahas and a lot of moments of like, oh yeah, okay, there's the truth. I mean, you can feel it when something is true in your body. You feel it and you just know that's, that's

Leah:

That's what you

Willow:

Yeah.

Leah:

I really wanna read

Willow:

a matter of perspective. I know you should, I wanna read the Ellucian one.

Leah:

yeah, yeah, yeah.

Willow:

I was going with you guys to that

Leah:

I know. Well, you know what? We have time between on the 16th when we get home'cause we fly really early to Athens. So we could, we do have time. To go to the temple. And I was thinking of that because I think Usia,

Willow:

Would love

Leah:

would be really, really

Willow:

Cool for her.

Leah:

Yeah. And then Matt gets to shine

Willow:

Okay.

Leah:

share all the things. And there's a beautiful cafe right next door

Willow:

good. Let's do it.

Leah:

it's just, it's a 45 minute cab ride. Or we can maybe take the train

Willow:

So back to our dish.

Leah:

back to our dish. Yeah. So, um, you know, I really like. I was so much easier for me to believe all of this at a younger time in my life. And then I would say I got really skeptical of everything. I don't know, maybe. I keep on saying five years, but it was probably eight years ago where I really started to question all of this. Um, you know, especially when people with channeled shit and I'm like, okay, yeah, whatever you plugging into the universe, you go ahead and believe you're channeling. Um,

Willow:

You channel all the time, honey.

Leah:

I mean, there is that, but I would never call it that. Like, oh, I channeled this great piece of thing. You know, like, I don't know, I get a little judgey, you know? Um, I have to admit, and I, and I, that's really not a fun part. It's not, that's not a joy-filled attitude to have, is to, is to become a skeptic and to, you know, kind of give my, squeeze my eye a little bit towards someone and going, ah, I don't know that I am, I'm picking up what you're putting down. Um. So what I, but, so I kind of felt that in the beginning, but then towards the end I'm feeling like filled with joy and filled with curiosity. And now I wanna read all the books and, and so I'm having like a different experience, which I'm like, well, I'd much rather prefer the magic of what's awaiting when we pull the veil behind something. And the truth of the matter is, who cares if it's factually true or not? What does it make? What does it spark and open inside of you? That should be the testimony. Of, you know,'cause I wanna live a joy-filled life. So if this opens doors to joy-filled ness,

Willow:

Then

Leah:

why would you deny it? You know?

Willow:

that door. Yeah. Well, one of the things that I really love about her books is they are based in tons of research. Like she's a full fucking scholar. I've read all the channeled books and I've read a bunch of the scholarly books, Megan Wesson's books, and um, you know, I love them all. They all bring really important, there, there was a whole, um. Uh, scripture. Mary Magdalene's had had her own part of the Bible that actually was taken out, and there is a really cool book Mary Magdalene revealed. I forget the name of the author. I don't know if it's Megan Waterson, maybe a different one. But anyway, she, um. She found little segments, little pieces of the scripture, and then just like, you know, gave her synopsis based on her long study of all of the, whatever, all of the study. And so Marguerite's just, she's a deep scholar and she, it's not just, you know, her stuff isn't, her books are not channeled

Leah:

right? Right. Yeah. Let's be clear. Um, she, she was,'cause when I was asking her like, yeah, so how'd you learn all this stuff anyways? You know? Uh, yeah. So, uh, real legitimate person here. Um, I do have to bring up the patriarchy.

Willow:

Okay.

Leah:

because it, it, it, I think we are misguided. Um, and I know this is sort of rooted in feminism. And I was once a feminist. I no longer identify as a feminist. Uh, and I'll tell you it's because I don't like the separation that the separateness, that is a part of the conversation when we villainize the patriarchy. Um, do I think that there are parts of the patriarchy that are filled with suppression and toxicity? Totally. But never is it a part of the conversation, the noble part of the patriarchy. There are part the healthy patriarchy, and I don't. So that kind of, that's just like, that's just something that kind of rubs me wrong because I think we, many of us have a patriarchal figure in our family and they've earned that title in my opinion. Like they are beautiful, good, wonderful men who are, you know, at the pinnacle of the family who we get to look up. To, and, and have respect for Matt's dad comes to mind when I think about the patriarch of the family, that doesn't mean there's not a matriarch of the family too, who we also all look up to who holds the family. And so to me, I, I think it's not either or and so many conversations where the patriarchy gets brought up. Um, there's never a balance. There's only this villainization of the patriarchy, and I think we do culture a disservice when we continue to pick sides, and it becomes this way that we become separate and I'm more interested in us finding ways to become non separate. So how can we take the patriarchy and make it more noble versus keep a this storyline of its villainous, you know, attributes, like if we're gonna transform the patriarchy, I don't think it's about doing away with it. I believe it's about changing the narrative so that we can rise towards something that's actually really beautiful, that compliments what also exist within the matriarchy. This either or thing just gets under my fucking nerves because then we take the matriarchy. It's like they're always women who like are down with the patriarchy and then they're like all about the matriarchy, as if there's not toxic shit. That's gotta be in connection with the matriarchy too. So I don't know. I just have to fucking say that there. I'm done.

Willow:

Okay. Rant over. Um, good rant. Good rant. I mean, I agree with a lot of what you're saying. I think there's a lot of value in, in, in patriarchy. I think, you know, if you read Rhianne ICER's book, the, the Chalice and the Blade, that book really talks about like the transition from, from matriarchy to patriarchy as a societal whole. And, um, and, and, you know. The, the oppression of of the feminine model. I think that is where the negativity around

Leah:

thousands of years of women's sexuality being repressed

Willow:

course. All of

Leah:

and, uh, being like the highest virtue a woman could possibly offer somebody. Yeah,

Willow:

But Yang is definitely not more valuable than yin. And Yin is not more, we need

Leah:

Yeah, well, even

Willow:

balance

Leah:

a lot of people talk about the yang, they also are talking it from a negative perspective. Instead of seeing it, it's just like this incredible force in the universe. It's just an energetic, um, difference from yin. You know, it's not one is better than the other. It's just that if we're only living in the yang, then we're missing out on the beauty of the yin.

Willow:

Exactly, and I think a lot of the work that we're doing, you and I personally, Leah, with, you know, clients and groups and individuals is like teaching the feminine how to support and augment and uplift the masculine in a way where they can, they are coming through with so much love and light rather than I've gotta get on top in order to be the winner and the success I have to oppress. And you know, and I think that, you know, inside of sexuality is one of the root places that we get to do this as women, which is like helping, helping, understanding and knowing your own system and your own body to such a degree that you can help any man that you're with in that intimate arena be a total success.

Leah:

Yeah, and I think, I think what it calls us to do is instead of competition, the light side of competition is collaboration. And so if we can take how we are competitive, someone has to win and instead transmute that to how can we win together? Everyone wins, then we become a collaboration. It's kind of what, when we are looking at our own inner yin and yang, our own inner masculine and feminine, it's about being an integrated, having an integration between yin and yang inside of ourselves, which is a collaboration, you know? And I think sometimes even within our own beings, we are warring between yin and yang in our own bodies, you know? And it's like there.

Willow:

the time. Yeah.

Leah:

if you feel that energy where it's like, God all I feel like I'm in this, like my masculine's always taking over. It's like it's not about going to war and forcing your feminine to come through. It's about finding a collaboration and asking your masculine to facilitate your y your feminine. Having more space

Willow:

Hold space for that. Exactly. Yeah.

Leah:

Well look at

Willow:

Well done.

Leah:

was fun. Okay. This is a long episode.

Willow:

a long dish. All right, y'all sending you much love, chow.

Announcer:

Thanks for tuning in. This episode was hosted by Tantric Sex Master Coach and positive psychology facilitator, Leah Piper, as well as by Chinese and Functional Medicine doctor and Taoist Taxology teacher, Dr. Willow Brown. Don't forget your comments, like subscribes and suggestions matter. Let's realize this new world together.

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Dr. Willow Brown

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Leah Piper

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Marguerite Mary Rigoglioso, Ph.D

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