The Sex Reimagined Podcast

Debs de Vries: Menopause or Spiritual Awakening? How To Hear The Wisdom Hidden In Your Hormonal Changes | #140

• Leah Piper, Dr. Willow Brown • Season 3 • Episode 140

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Ever wondered why you're feeling SO different in your mid 40s? It's not just hormones—it's your body's wisdom kicking in! This week on Sex Reimagined, Leah and Dr. Willow chat with Debs De Vries about her fascinating book "The Voice, the Vulva, and the Vagus Nerve." Trust us—this conversation might just explain those intense feelings and sudden urges to change your life! Ready to discover how your body's wisdom can guide you toward pleasure, purpose, and power in midlife? Listen to the full episode now.


EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS

  • How your vagus nerve connects your throat, heart, gut, and genitals (yes, they're ALL linked!)
  • Why perimenopause is actually a spiritual awakening, not just hot flashes
  • The "Uranus Return" at age 44-45 that tests your emotional mastery
  • Simple practices to stop projecting emotions onto others
  • The Chiron Return (ages 48-52) that unlocks your soul gifts


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Leah:

Welcome to the Sex Reimagined podcast. I'm your host, Leah Piper, and I'm with my other host, Dr. Willow Brown, and we want you to make sure that you stay tuned to the very end of this episode'cause we've got an amazing free gift. You do not wanna miss.

Willow:

Absolutely. Today we interviewed the one and only Debs De Vries, who is the author of The Voice, the Vulva, and the Vagus Nerve, and she describes the relationship between, uh, these. Parts of your body and how to manifest, how to open up into a life that works for you. So really, really powerful conversation and um, we cannot wait to hear what you think.

Leah:

So please tune in, turn on, and fall in love with Debs.

Announcer:

Welcome to the Sex Reimagined Podcast, where sex is shame-free and pleasure forward. Let's get into the show.

Leah:

Debs, welcome to the show. We're so happy to have you.

Deb:

Thank you.

Willow:

I am thrilled to not only have you to show, but to meet you, Debs, because I have been reading your book. You were referred to me by Nini Blossom, a dear friend, and, um, I just, I'm loving the book. I'm, I'm toward the end of it right now, but the, the book is called The Voice, the Vulva, and the Vagus Nerve and as a, um, as a total vagus nerve dork, who wants to know everything that there is to know about the vagus nerve? I'm learning new things, and it's really wonderful how you bridge, you know, the spirituality, the physicality, and the, the divine feminine altogether in such a beautifully woven book.

Deb:

Thank you. Thank you for your beautiful welcome, Leah and Dr. Willow. And may I say you've just made it all worthwhile. You know, I, I feel tears because. It's a simple book in some ways. You know, I, it's, I actually feel it's a primer, um, which isn't to be dismissive of, uh, of what's in it, but I want to go deeper and I, I need to start, I had to start somewhere. And my life has been, I think, like so many of us that want to broaden and deepen our our vitality, our moving to our potential and feel as fully alive as we can is bringing those things together. So, you know, pennies drop, as we say in England, there's a gestalt, so people start to see things as really connected and therefore perhaps a more motivated and encouraged.

Willow:

Yeah, the, the connection between the voice and the vulva is one that, you know, Leah and I have been teaching for a couple decades now, and it's such an unknown connection to so many.

Deb:

It's, it's unbelievably thrilling to think that we are speaking about this, uh, in this day and age, and now in these times, right, that we're pulling together between us, across the globe. The pieces of equipment, physical and non-physical that are ours, that are our birthright.

Willow:

Yeah, I feel like the, you know, that. That line of connection that we have in our bodies called the vagus nerve Central Channel is, you know, more of a, a metaphysical term or the yin meridian or the conception vessel in Taoism and Chinese medicine. And it is this, um, nerve that actually connects from our brainstem down to our heart, down to our gut. And then there are other nerve plexus is that travel even further down to connect to the womb and the cervix. And so a lot of times when we have cervical orgasms, we are igniting that vagus nerve. But there's so many ways to ignite the vagus nerve including and to activate it, including to open up the throat. And you know, in my work with women over the past couple of decades, the the biggest place, where do you feel that block in your body right here. And it's always right between the heart and the, and the mouth, right? It's right at that throat chakra. And so, you know, even, even gagging and, and sticking your finger back in your throat can activate the, the vagus nerve. And when you're healing, um, gut issues or you know, or trauma in the body, it can be so powerful to stimulate and activate the vagus nerve and that. That alignment, that it, it connects head, heart, and gut and, you know, genitals as well. And so, you know, I studied, um, in my coaching practice I studied multiple brain integration therapy. And that that is all about finding coherence, like getting your heart, your head, and your gut all on the same page. And that's really what you're speaking to, is to make those choices and those decisions of which direction to, to go in life from a coherent place in your body. And if you're not feeling it, and wait until you can feel that.

Deb:

Thank you. You just summarized it. It is coherence and it's in as well trying to break down of the some of the ideas, the societal, cultural, and embodied ideas about what coherence is. And I think in some ways we can support people in finding it, but when you know it in your body, it's unmistakable for you and that's what encourages people like you and you and me and millions of others, no doubt, to follow their inner knowing. You know, attached to your values, of course, to, you know, to, to approach the world in a way that you, you hold yourself in a way that aligns with the, the values you've espoused as a human. But that inner knowing that can make a life look very different to people who are um, living within their paradigm of what they, you know, conformity to the structures they've been told are the best for them. And we are seeing a lot of breakdown around that right now.

Willow:

A lot.

Leah:

I wanna back up just a little bit, Debs, and I wanna know, how would you describe your work, and then how did you get into your work?

Deb:

My work is a devotion to the liberation of women into their greatest potential from midlife onwards. How I got into it, leah, my mother died at 51, and although I didn't realize that she had ovarian cancer, her twin sister died a year later in Australia of breast cancer, and then her daughter died of ovarian cancer. My, my cousin. And I used to, and I always have done walk in the fields since I was a little girl. I grew up in rural Staffordshire in England, um, in the middle of, you know, a very small, uh, village. And I would turn to nature for my answers. Always, always, I used to lie on my back and look at the stars and say, I know you're trying to say something to me. I can't understand you. You know, there was this sense of needing a dialogue. So going back to my mother's death, I struggled with the question, well, does nature just use up women and then chuck'em away like a dirty old Kleenex when they've done the productive years and it, it, it looked like it particularly bearing in mind I was born in 1956, so, you know, grandmas, grandmothers were always gray perms. I mean, there'd be no grandmother that looked like me unless she was, you know, completely outside the pale. Uh, and there was, so, there was this very set world that I saw a village life, um, an all girls school. My father choosing my career for me, I mean,

Leah:

Mm-hmm.

Deb:

but it, none of it sat with me. And I think that's what I'm talking about, that sort of divine restlessness, that this just isn't true. But I didn't set out to make that my work. That was just a background question. There's two. So the other strand is I had a professional career where I would be advising companies, quite large companies on people and mission development. And, and also writing programs and delivering them. So I was, you know, exec board down to hands-on with the newbies everywhere. And in 1999 I had a horse and a lady I met at a stable old where a captain said to me, oh, we've got a reiki master coming to my house on Sunday. Would you like to come? I think I thought she meant sushi, honestly.

Willow:

Sure. I like fish.

Deb:

I'm coming. I just said, I'm coming, thereby hangs a tail. So that was the, the start of a, of a step into understanding subtle energy, which continued at quite a pace. I was also doing a lot of yoga and I moved into tango. I woke up one morning from a profound dream and I've had half a dozen really profound dreams that have changed my direction and I had to give up working, learn tango, thereby hangs it a big old tale. So I've got these two strands going on. The energy work was building. I couldn't walk into a corporate environment in a suit anymore. Um, by 2012, I was divorced. I was desperate to get a job so I could pay my house bills, all sorts of things. And I was offered a co, a good corporate job. And I thought, come on, Deb, it's this or the poor house, you know, get on with it. Um, but it wouldn't hold. And I couldn't hold, hold that position and not, and be well. So I gave it up and a month later I had a dream. And in the dream there were four beautifully wrapped gifts. And my inner voice said, you've got gifts physically, emotionally, psychologically, and spiritually. Now you must take them to midlife women.

Leah:

Hmm.

Deb:

outta bend. You know that you, maybe you don't, but I'm standing there a bit dozy, pulling my, looking for my underwear. I'm going, but how does it all fit together? And straight away it was there. Chiron, Kundalini, all these words dropped in things I knew, but needed to go boom. So that's what I did. I went downstairs and thought, make an event, do a weekend, see what happens. So that's where that started.

Leah:

And so in this event, in your first event, and I'm sure it's grown and you've, you know, dialed it over time, what, can you explain what the cornerstones, what was this event? How, what were people looking for that had them say yes to attending your event?

Deb:

In 2015, midlife and menopause were still weren't the conversation they are today. So, the title of the event was Menopause Magic. So you've got two good words there. And what they were looking for was an alternative route for those women that are already, should we just say spiritually seeking, have done, you know, self-inquiry or perhaps into yoga. There was a stirring within them that they, they're inner being answered to. And the cornerstone was bringing together, particularly at the age of 48 to 52, the Chiron return, the upsurge of Kundalini, the impact of Kundalini in the psyche and in the physical and emotional system and, and things to support that so they could hold an under a bigger understanding of the passage than they might already have had.

Leah:

Hmm.

Willow:

Can you explain to our audience what that means? Chiron and Kudalini.

Deb:

I would love to. Chiron is a center planet. Um, he was rediscovered by, uh, an electron telescope on the, uh, southeast coast of America on the 1st of November, 1977. A centuar, as I'm sure we all have seen or thought of them, represents divine and human, divine and animal. You could almost say Chiron's got a big history in, in, in Greek, but when Chiron's physicality was seen again in our skies, 1977. There wasn't an awful lot of self-healing going on. You know, psychology had been the biggest modality, but there it was. And suddenly through America, things began to pour into the, the consciousness and the awareness, you know, massage, um, essences.

Leah:

Gestalts and all these alternative healing modalities and somatic therapies are giving birth for the first time.

Deb:

Oh, everything. 77, right? So when I was born, it wasn't in my chart. I was 21 at the time. Chiron represents a passage, a very interesting passage, and he moves between the inner planets. So let's just sort of say first half of life or the things we need to do to set our life up. And then as a strange elliptical movement that he makes, and the planets outside of this little dwarf, if you like, are, um, Saturn and Uranus. So more, more energy, more uniqueness, more of that electrode just had an idea, more form. The idea being that we have to perfect if you like, and that doesn't mean to be perfect, a piece of work within us that our soul is calling us to do. And that is often referred to as the Chiron wound. I'm not keen on the idea of wound because I like to steer away from the way the idea that we are wounded. I believe we're always in process and our process is, you know, will bring us up against very uncomfortable and unpleasant, uh, events in the body and in the outside life. But when I've, when I've tapped into the chirotic energy, the, is what we call it, what I've also seen always makes me wanna weep. It's so beautiful that over lifetimes, and actually I don't think it's linear, but you know, just, just let's say we've been around forever and in different experiences, we've built gifts and talents. We've built and built and built gifts and talents, and there may be one place that we haven't tackled we've avoided. But rather like the inevitability of a branch popping out of a trunk of a tree at some point, which I call a, a stage of spiritual maturation. Your soul goes, right, this is a lifetime. We are gonna do it. And it's, it's a way of bringing down this left right brain saturn Uranus energy. It's a way of overcoming what they call the wound, but I prefer to think of as a sort of place we have just not really wanted to go. And, and the reasons for that are actually though people don't wanna hear it, they're not important. The important thing is that when you go there and you start to work with that pain, if it's, if we can describe as that your gifts and talents birth. Because the very thing that you've been avoiding is. The way that you are going to bring those gifts and talents into your, into your life, into other people's lives. And the learning is for me is like, you don't cure the wound. You just get to know when it's there. You know, like a monkey on your shoulder. It's like, oh, it's my wound again. And for me, that always means, okay, that means you've gotta do the thing you don't wanna do. You go and talk to that group. My, my wound, if you like, is in groups. So, yeah,

Willow:

then you went and started doing groups.

Deb:

well, exactly, and that was still a safe place for me because when I was teaching, you know, it was still a safe place because I had that little bit of teacher going on and I was managing the group, but me in a group, ugh, no.

Willow:

Hmm

Leah:

So, let me see if I got this right. Chiron is basically the invitation that arises when the impulse goes, I gotta take a look at the things I'm uncomfortable with.

Deb:

Yeah.

Leah:

called to explore and be an inquiry with the traumas from the past, the stories that don't serve, the things that keep me small, instead of allowing myself to shine. And if I'm brave enough, if I listen to the call of Chiron, I dig in for that courage and what will, what will be unlocked is like the next big expansion. Me being more of myself.

Willow:

Very well articulated.

Deb:

Leah, you just said something so magical. You said unlock the symbol that the astronomers gave. Chiron is a key and

Leah:

of course. It took me a minute to like have that

Deb:

drop in. Yeah, bu

Leah:

Yes. So

Deb:

a key.

Leah:

key right

Deb:

It's a master key. It, it has an energetic signature that can. I'm pushing boundaries perhaps of people's beliefs here, but it's been true for me. That can impact at the level of the DNA

Leah:

So is this is Chiron specific to, let's say an astrological chart at a certain age. Is that why it's a part of your ecosystem as it relates to menopause? Or can Chiron come into anyone's field at any age?

Deb:

Chiron's always in your field because he'll be in some house or the other, but the big return IE, when it kind of comes back to that moment when you were born, the Chiron return 48 to 52.

Leah:

Okay.

Deb:

fundamentally important in my work, and the only reference in the West I could find to it was Carl Jung, of course, who went

Leah:

Mm.

Deb:

to India for three months and came back and wrote about, not so much about Chiron, but about Kundalini psychosis. And when I thought of what Kundalini can do and when I thought of what Chiron can do and realized the power of, of those two combined at the, those particular ages, specifically. I, you know, I. I ran downstairs and thought I better start helping people.'Cause you know, this idea of pouring petrol onto a bonfire was just so huge in my mind. No wonder people are going crazy, you know?

Leah:

Okay, beautiful. So now let's go to Kundalini.

Deb:

Kundalini is described in various ways, and it's a little bit difficult to give it a complete Western definition because it's one of those beautiful Sanskrit terms that don't quite translate into our, our cultural understanding. I like to think of it as an energy source that has different iterations in the human body, but very specifically at midlife. It starts to power up in a whole new way, and its movement is upwardly vertical. And it's power wants to increase at this point, its programmed to increase, and as the power increases and it moves upwards, it's moving through the human Socratic system. In other words, it's activating the subtle power centers that are transducing energy from the cosmos to the meridians in the human body. Because it wants to increase their, let's call it voltage, and it needs, in order to do that, it has to debug programs that

Leah:

Mm-hmm.

Deb:

cannot support it.

Leah:

Yeah, it's like a purification system. It kind of blasts through, uh, conditioned responses that are both conscious and unconscious and subconscious and all the consciousnesses.

Deb:

it's an, it's, it's an, you know, it's a piece of the cosmic intelligence and

Leah:

Yeah.

Deb:

that's what it's gonna do because it's, it the, as energy spirals upwards, we get, as you know, I'm sure opportunities to make leaps within our own lives. So you know, the Saturn return at 29. At 44 Uranus versus Uranus. Then we get a little break. Whew. Thank you very much. And then along comes Chiron rate. Are you guys ready for this? If you've done your Uranus versus Uranus work, which I wish would help a lot, then there wouldn't be so much to do at the Chiron point. But there you go, that's where we are. And the action of is. As you say, it's purifying, it's vivifying,

Leah:

Mm-hmm.

Deb:

now

Leah:

It's awakening and it's enlightening. So a lot of people, when they hear Kundalini, they, there's oftentimes a relationship to enlightenment. People whose Kundalini awakens, and then they have states of enlightenment, which really just means they're lighter,

Willow:

Well, and their

Leah:

they're less burdened by, by the stories. Yeah. But I love this, it's vivifying, that's beautiful.

Deb:

It's vivifying and you are absolutely right. People have an experience, but having an initiation isn't the same as embodying it.

Leah:

Right.

Deb:

And

Willow:

Good distinction.

Deb:

know what happens in many cases is that the initiation of that energy to misperception of what's happening.

Leah:

Yeah. A lot of circuits can get blown out.

Deb:

A lot can get blown out. A

Leah:

Mm-hmm.

Deb:

missteps can be taken because we, you know, the person thinks it's this and it's that and it's outside of me and I'm gonna do this and I can't. It, it's a very confusing, and have a certain amount of psychic perception, well, I've actually got quite a lot. And I saw how the construct of the human ego, the hologram of that also plays a part. I mean, it plays a part all the time, but because it, I saw one doing it once, I'm like, oh my God, it has energy. Tentacles is the best I could put it into the solar plexus, into, um, manipura,

Willow:

Mm-hmm.

Deb:

which isn't surprising. But again, this passage from solar plexus, which is what Kundalini is helping us to do, thru the Chiron point, which is between the heart and here. Again, if the ego isn't balanced, if we aren't in some form of surrender to the life force. If we aren't humble enough and willing enough to listen, that energy just stays in the negative aspects of ego. Because the brain, it, brain it to do that. It shunts it is the best way I can put it, rather than the energy, the pre-language energy moving through and us with the vagus nerve being able to interpret it, it goes through a different system, solar plexus and central nervous system. And we have a thought like that, right? We check out, I don't know what this is, it's you, it's me, it's this, it's that. So the whole process of becoming coherent. Understanding how to be in a relaxed state, people don't like the word relaxed. I'm like, doesn't mean passive guys, doesn't mean you're lying around with your face full of marshmallows every day. It's an opening, it's a way of being so. I hope that's a little bit helpful and not confusing. But that's, the way we're made, right. I will just say one thing that you, you probably know, but I want to add about Kundalini'cause some people might be saying, well, how come this only just really happens then? One of the things to note is that in the lower two Chakras, there are gates that allow Kundalini in and it flows out with a menstrual flow. When it's not used to build placenta.

Leah:

Mm.

Deb:

So one of those gates begins to close at around 44, 45 years

Leah:

Mm, due to perimenopause?

Deb:

And estrogen's going E, but guess what? Kundalini's going, hello!

Leah:

How interesting.

Deb:

Don't worry. That's my view. And I'm not medical, so God.

Leah:

Yeah.

Deb:

What people make of that. But the, the fact from an esoteric point of view is, and it makes sense, kundalini is pretty much always there, and it needs to be there to sustain new life. Right. And then it's, it's not needed for that anymore. The program is for you to have a new life.

Leah:

mm. Ding ding.

Willow:

Women who are going through perimenopause they no longer have the capacity to sort of handle the things they used to handle. You know, because they're like fuck that, I don't have the time. I don't have the space. I don't have the capacity. I'm gonna go create a new life for myself. And you know, this is so often when divorces happen and things short circuit in life because it, as you're talking about, these are very interesting. These, this gate, these two gates in the second chakra. I've never thought about that before, but it makes a lot of sense. It's like when the, the blood, the life force, the potential life, those eggs are no longer being released down to the earth. Then they are, they're then going up back, like the energy is going, not the eggs, but the energy is going back up into you and giving you this new and this new, um, opportunity to rewire and rebuild your life in a way that that works for you Now.

Deb:

Completely. And if I could just add it to something from my experience to that. Yeah. I, I always say to women, you know, your band of tolerance is gonna get really tight. It's just like, it's gonna get tight and it needs to get tight,

Willow:

Mm-hmm.

Deb:

you now have the process of sifting and sorting. And as you said, sometimes there's a lot of short circuiting. So the business skills that I learned that I used to teach, you know, all kinds of people, realized when I was looking at those skills, these are really useful skills. Rather than crashing and burning your life, which might happen, you might want to, but what if you had a set of skills that actually serve you for the rest of your life? And even if this partnership doesn't hold, you've learned a new narrative. A new dialogue, that rather than fuck it, I'm outta here. We are negotiating, we're lobbying for our needs. We're helping the next generation take their part of the teamwork in the home. You know, women say to me, but I've got nobody to help me. I'm like, how old are your kids? They go, oh, I can't ask them. Oh, yes you can lady, and you should. How old are they?

Leah:

Mm-hmm.

Willow:

Perfect age for them to

Leah:

Yeah.

Willow:

Yeah, exactly.

Deb:

late by my book. But yeah, get going, g know get going. Because actually most if you do it well, they like to be included. They start to feel themselves as responsible as part of a unit,

Leah:

Yep.

Deb:

of learning useful skills. You know, I'd be shamed if my son had come back from university with a bag of dirty washing. I would not happy.

Leah:

Yeah.

Deb:

And yet it's a bit of a badge of honor. Oh, he's come home again with his dirty washing. I'm like.

Leah:

Yeah.

Deb:

I'm

Willow:

Okay, so.

Deb:

out like that for a woman in my world.

Leah:

Right.

Willow:

Yeah, so, so Leah and I are both at this, this conjunction point, this age, 44, 45 of like, where what you're speaking to is the, the Uranus, um, return. Is that correct? And so can you share a little bit like Saturn return, if you know anything about astrology, it's like these, these planets have big life lessons to offer us. So Saturn is, you know, big life lessons. What are you here to learn in life? And it, it comes around our, our charts every 30 years. So we have our Saturn return when we're in our th. Thirties, and that's a 29, 28, 29 30 is when a lot of people are like, what the fuck am I doing? You know, and things go haywire for a few years and then you kind of get on back on track again. And, and now we're speaking to this next return, which is the Uranus return. And Uranus is, um, you know, to the sign Aquarius, so, which I am. So, and Leah has Aquarius sun, and so I

Leah:

Rising.

Willow:

Rising. Sorry. Yeah. Aquarius rising. And so I think about Uranus as this sort of like planet of, of big, um, understanding, you know, bigger consciousness, bigger conception, bigger overview, because that's kind of what Aquarius holds. Like the humanitarian overview. Like how are we, how are we weaving with the collective and what are we offering to the world? So. Um, you know, I just wanna maybe pause with that and get your wisdom on how can someone in this age range and this Uranus return, you know, kind of present and,

Leah:

Find meaning and yeah.

Willow:

when they come to this Chiron return in the, you know, around the early fifties, it's easier.

Deb:

Great question. God, I love speaking with you women. Yes, Uranus, Aquarius, expansion global. But first of all, we have to understand how capable we are of working with energy and to provide a stable environment for that energy when it comes. And that happens through at a physiological level, the endocrine system. And at, um, another level, the emotional system. So Uranus versus Uranus at this octave of our being human, our just coming into this, you know, we've done the Saturn stuff, we've got the job, we've got the house. We've grounded ourselves, we're learning the lessons. The question at this point for me is, are you emotionally capable? Are you emotionally fluent? How do you manage your emotions? Can you name them? you claim them? Can you use them in a constructive way? Because these levels of power that come are as all power is, are capable of destruction. They're capable of destroying you psychologically, you know, people have brilliant ideas and it can drive them crazy because their emotional life isn't stable enough. By that I mean it's learning to, for me to broaden out everything you know about yourself. So it really is the one of those first lessons of physician heal thyself. To know thyself because until we really know ourselves, that level of wisdom and the the access it gives you, um, can bounce back.

Leah:

So let me,

Deb:

yeah. So, you know, how do you deal with anger? Do you know you're angry? I meet a lot of women who just dunno, they're angry,

Leah:

mm.

Willow:

I know. I know when I am.

Deb:

do.

Leah:

Mm-hmm.

Willow:

I, yeah. And, and yeah. And, and I, I love what you're speaking to.'cause it's, it's anger is such an uncomfortable emotion for women. They usually will default to depression or grief or some other emotion that's more comfortable and, and societally, um, accepted. And so I think that. know that they have rage rooms these days where you can go and like throw shit and break shit and

Leah:

I've heard of that.

Willow:

get your anger out. And I think, who is it? Mama Gina has this like swamping thing that she talks about, you know? So there's all these different ways that we can release our anger these days and instead of, um, bottling it in because that is then going to affect our soul return, right? This Chiron Soul purpose return planet. Later on in life.

Leah:

Well, let me see. Let me see if I have this right. So it sounds like, um, again, there's an invitation to take ownership of your emotions, right? But it sounds like there's actually a maturation process to all this, that it's not just about, oh, I just get to have my emotions. It's, I get to own and recognize my emotions and I'm mature enough to clean up a mess when I've made one. You know, it's not just being willy-nilly about all your emotions. It's actually being wise and purposeful and responsible, and to be able to articulate what's important to you about your emotions. You set boundaries, the way that you create limits, the, things that you say no to, because it's not a match. You don't wanna be thrown into it fucking chaos anymore. It sounds like you have enough emotional awareness to have the autonomy and the agency to consciously sign up for what is in alignment for you versus what you're no longer gonna endure, because you wanna be a good girl in everybody's eyes. But you also don't need to like throw a tantrum to go fuck you. You know? It's like one of these things. Yeah. Right, right, right, right, right, right. Well, right. Or like when someone really breaks your boundaries, you allow yourself to be upset and to stand for them. And that case, sometimes a rage storm has to blow over. Um. Or you make a mistake and you make a giant ass mess and you blow everybody outta the water, but you now know how to clean it up and take responsibility for that. And then shift the frequency of whether or not that happens.

Deb:

You are

Leah:

Yes. Am I on the track? Okay.

Deb:

there's a process of alchemy that we can run, which is we are really talking about at the level of this.

Leah:

Okay.

Deb:

So for me, I. Completely. We take responsibility. What could that look like? First of all, you said it awareness. Am I angry? Am I a little bit annoyed or am I so fucking pissed off? I could rip somebody's head off. You know,

Leah:

Right,

Deb:

Where are you on that scale? Because they're all biochemically different. What are you gonna do now? You know that?

Leah:

right.

Deb:

What I always advocate is don't project,

Leah:

Mm. How do you help? How do you help people break that habit? Because so many times people go into projection unconsciously.

Deb:

If they come to me, it's probably because they're in a loop of projection. You

Leah:

Okay.

Deb:

I yelled, they yelled, we are yelling.

Leah:

Yeah.

Deb:

So the first position is to get past the story

Leah:

Mm-hmm.

Deb:

take them into their body

Leah:

Hmm.

Deb:

anger usually. And you'll hear this a lot. I dunno what I feel.

Leah:

Oh really?

Deb:

I don't feel like talking to them

Leah:

Uh, right.

Deb:

Um, know, we were getting

Leah:

I.

Deb:

Okay. Let's, let's just unwind a bit and see what's really going on. And there's some, a very simple tool I use is, um, you've probably done it, it's from the African yoga tradition and it's called wood chopper.

Willow:

Oh yeah.

Deb:

it's, yeah, it's really good for that. I

Willow:

I love the wood chopper

Deb:

when you've done that three times and you stand

Leah:

I am not, I'm not familiar with the wood chopper.

Willow:

You stand like in a, with your feet wide and you do like a, a squat with, but keeping your spine straight. So you're just coming straight up and down and

Leah:

Okay.

Willow:

chop wood and you go, ha, every time

Leah:

Okay.

Willow:

loud. It's um.

Deb:

the solar plexus snaps up. So you're moving the

Willow:

Yeah.

Deb:

You wanna feel it in your heart. You want the biochemistry to run,

Leah:

Okay.

Deb:

you, there's a ification. And when you felt it. The need to project it pretty much disappears because you are it now. You, you're not trying to get rid of it and give it to somebody else, and it feels to me, it always feels good. Now I can go and say to somebody, we need to talk. I was really angry. because I'm talking from with that biochemistry in my body, rather than going in for an attack from a defensive or victim mode,

Leah:

Right?

Deb:

they feel it. They don't need

Leah:

Mm

Deb:

to be told because their body will pick up that signal. She's angry,

Leah:

mm

Deb:

attack. She's just angry. Let's listen to her.

Leah:

mm

Willow:

Mm-hmm. That's beautiful.

Deb:

That's alchemy.

Leah:

Yes.

Deb:

That's a form of alchemy. You are transforming these vibrations that have been calibrated in you. The triggers, of course, you, it's a trigger. So. important thing is to understand that you are now experienced something that could be calibrated at any frequency band. Really think about it. You know, you could, you could get a trigger and have an orgasm, right? It's just like, oh, oh, they were so angry with me. That was gorgeous. Depending on how that energy had already been stored,

Leah:

Okay, so, so let's bridge this to sex. Let's bridge this to intimacy and sexual relationships. What does all this have to do with sex?

Deb:

Sex is the primal creative force, and it's, I think the same thing applies. It's how do we amplify it and manage it in a responsible way so that we can create greater networks of pleasure, which is highly important within ourselves and within the worlds we inhabit. And sex and sensuality are huge gateways to that. I'd probably broaden it to sensuality to include sex, because there's a sensuality to feeling your feelings in a healthy way, it

Leah:

Mm-hmm.

Deb:

just happens, you know yourself. If, if you're around somebody who's holding something in, they're feeling a bit bitter, resemble lonely, that's not sexy,

Leah:

No.

Deb:

Um. Having an argument with somebody and trying to tell'em they're right, you know, in a relationship that's not sexy, but owning your own feelings and going and presenting them and explaining what your needs are in that moment and whether they can, you know, are they gonna step meet them? That becomes sexy because there's, the magnetism is running your, you're presenting yourself as a whole person, not as somebody who needs something from the other person,

Leah:

It also seems like, like this process that you're speaking to is like you're freeing yourself up because we're usually doing one of two things. We're either suppressing. And, and people pleasing or we're just kind of outta control. Everything's just flying out sideways. We're looking to be corralled. And so it's like, both are kind of not great options. And so it feels, um, either like very depressive. Very chaotic. And it seems like when you're talking about this alchemizing thing, that it, it frees up the system. You're able to like discharge and, and relax in a specific way. And if you can realize that some of the most potent energy we have in our system is derived from the sex center, it's also very creative in nature. So you're harnessing creativity, you're harnessing a lot of energy, you're becoming very, um. Intentional, right? It's like instead of just like you're holding a bow and arrow and you pull back on the string and instead of just aiming, not having an aim, like suddenly you have a bullseye and you can let go. And in that letting go, you free yourself. Then like pleasure becomes so much easier. You're not like all squashed in, you're not super tight. Preventing and being un magnetic to the pleasures that are awaiting for you to like, yum, yum, yum, yum. Enjoy. Enjoy this beautiful life and this beautiful body that we're so privileged to inhabit.

Deb:

beyond anything and absolutely. Tantra Tanti expansion.

Leah:

Yeah.

Deb:

What does that look like in a person's life? Where are we compressed, shrivel, defensive, aggressive, um,

Leah:

Right. Numb.

Deb:

unattractive in, in, in the original sense of the word, you know.

Willow:

Yeah,

Deb:

the

Willow:

magnetic.

Deb:

being, you know, are you in, look, one, two, or three? I, I believe there's only about three looks kicking around on the, in the western world at the moment. It's, it's like isn't what it's about. The body will find attractiveness

Leah:

Yeah.

Deb:

Uh, you know, safe and wanted and welcome and ready for expansion.

Leah:

Yeah.

Deb:

We know there are shades of that and people doing different things, but those different things aren't sustainable in the same way.

Leah:

Well, it kind of reminds me of like the essence or the spirit of turn on. Like it's not, I'm not referring to like turn on as like being horny. I'm talking about being turned on, being lit up, being open, being. In the world and and choosing to be lit up, like making a conscious choice to live a life filled with turnon. And we can be turned on by nature. We can be turned on by babies laughing and giggling. I was just with my little niece who's six months old, and it was like, how is this little creature that doesn't even know how to talk, captivate the whole damn room by just wobbling her little pudgy limbs. You know what I mean? Like, why do we find that so incredibly delightful and fascinating? Like what a turn on it was to bask in her vividness, you know, like, so I'm, am I headed in the right direction that these are, this is a part of the alchemy that happens as people start to feel lit up and, yeah. Okay.

Deb:

it's, it's the, the first pass is, is know thyself. Then it's now I'm beginning to know myself. What do I do? And the, you know, those deep questions. Am I, I manipulate? What's my intention behind

Leah:

Mm.

Deb:

outta my mouth? You know, coming back to the voice or what's my intention behind withholding, understanding the way we use power.

Leah:

so now let's bridge that to this whole vagus nerve piece. Because one of the things I think is really interesting about the vagus nerve is it's one of the ways that people who have spinal injuries can still have orgasms. Because it's one, it's the only nerve that we are aware of that runs from the front of the body, from the genitals up to the brain that allows us to run an orgasmic sensations. Instead of going through the spine, which I think is like, God, what a miraculous design. Um, and so I don't know why I'm saying that. I guess I'm just throwing that into the conversation. But how does all of this relate now to this vagus nerve?

Deb:

Well, let's start with a, a very quick thing for me.

Leah:

I.

Deb:

Yes. The difference between the central nervous system and the vagus nerve is it's yin and yang, if you like. It's, it's electromagnetic, and when the vagus nerve is. Constantly under stress and picking up signals of stress, cortisol, the internal signals, as well as its job, which is monitoring externals, and it has a conversation with the adrenals and all the rest of it's going on. It's very, very, very hardworking. And while that's, that state can become so familiar, it feels normal. and I'm sure you teach us a lot, don't have an experience of pleasure or comfort or safety. They don't have a dating point. Their life feels like that, right? It feels like that. This is the way to be. You can't trust anyone, you know, don't relax and enjoy yourself. Whenever they see or feel is filtered because the vagus nerve isn't able to relax enough to give them a broad range of signals to see things from a relaxed standpoint. That person wasn't glaring at you. They were just, look, you know, the sun was in their eyes. That person was smiling at you because you're pretty, you know, it's like all those filters. The vagus nerve is snake to me it's like that muscle, it's like 90% muscle. It's, it's a sensing organ.

Leah:

Mm-hmm.

Deb:

So when we don't allow it to be sensory, when we will only listen the signals that come up at, you know, picosecond or whatever it is, from the base to the brain, we're in that sort of forward going reactive place. So the teaching for the vagus nerve is to balance that. It's not to have. One without the other is to understand that once you un realize you are in a contracted state, some it it, how does a person know that? You know? It's for some, it's when their life just gets so intolerable. They reach out for help often, you know, or there's a major life crisis or a health crisis. Those tend to be the ways the body gets noticed, right? they, once they can find and trust someone who can explain to them, your experience isn't the whole of the experience you could be having. You know that there's a lot more, and if you and want to walk that path, the path of sensuality, of relaxation, of living very broadly and making great choices from that rather than. These same narrow band of choices, you're gonna have to work with a.

Willow:

Yeah, there's a, there's a level of, um, safety that has to be, um experienced in order to, it's sort of a, it's sort of a, a cyclical thing, you know? It's like if we can, if we can create safety, then we can experience safety that will open up your receptive channel. In, in Chinese medicine, the, the vagus nerve and the yin meridian, which runs right down the, through the front of the body are synonymous. And so that we also call that yin meridian, we call it the receptive channel, know, and that, I think that's really the divine feminines greatest superpower is to receive. And so much of our young dominant culture is going out and getting, going out and achieving, go make it happen. You know, make, do

Leah:

Grasping.

Willow:

I. And yeah. And so, and to, to not negate that because there's a lot of power in that. There's a lot of good in that we wanna go out and get, but we also wanna be able to sit back and receive. And I think that's, um, one of the most, you know, really, really powerful, uh, things about having a relationship with your vagus nerve, especially through sensuality, through sexuality as you keep pointing to Debs, is like feeling, feeling your way through life rather than always thinking your way through life. And raise your hand if you know that you lead with your prefrontal cortex over your heart. You know, so many of us do. And it's partially because we're swimming in the water of that, that's what our culture is made up of. So of course we're gonna get wet, you know. But these, the practices that you outline in your book really, um, help to rewire somebody's physicality so that they can feel their way through life so that they can awaken that receptive vessel or that receptive channel within and.

Leah:

Let's talk about some of those practices so that this becomes a practical, right? Because, um, many people who are listening don't know how to get in touch with their vagus nerve. They're not even sure where their vagus nerve is. They don't know, you know, like, okay, I notice I'm triggered now what?

Willow:

Yeah, let's make it doable for them today. What can someone do in their life right now today if they find themselves in a contracted stressed, you know, not open state?

Deb:

How will they know? You know, how do they know? And uh, and that sounds over simplistic, but you know, ask yourself the question, what do I do? How do I become? Where in my body am I suddenly conscious that I'm holding tension or holding words back? So start to internally search around your body. You need that piece of information. And then of course, it's the breath, right? It's the very next breath. Because when we move, um, the diaphragm, we're gonna touch the emotions. We're gonna bring those emotions back towards the heart. Coming back to emotional mastery, of course, your ego doesn't want you to do that. So it's, it's a, a moment of self-awareness. Am I contracted? Do my shoulders hurt? Do I have, Am I gritting my teeth? Am I, you know, what am I doing? Am I fist clench? Because we have to pay attention to ourself. And that's a loving act, right? Is paying attention to the inner, not just the inner being, but the animal being of us. This highly intelligent system. begin that dialogue, you just take a couple of deep breaths and push those receptors in the lungs and sudden you might feel a difference. And it's tiny little things like, I noticed a difference. What happened? Self informing. Now when I pause and see where I am and what I'm doing and become aware, suddenly that very narrow moment starts to widen.'cause what do we want? Spaciousness expansion. When I do that and I take three deep breaths, what happened? What if I gave up for a moment, the need to control the next thing? What if I just focused on myself for a minute and not the situation? I.

Leah:

I had a mo, I had a moment today. Um. I'm the techie of every experience in my life. Everyone in my life has a hard time with technology almost, and my husband specifically, so he's having a password issue and every, he has a password issue. It is stop immediately, whatever I'm doing, and run and solve the problem. And oh, by the way, he's pissed off at it. So his tone directed to me isn't, would you please help me? It's, ah, this doesn't work and you have to fix it, you know, and I'm pretty patient, but today I wasn't. I was pissed off at being interrupted. I was pissed off that I wasn't asked politely, and then I was pissed off that I didn't get any gratitude. And so, and it wasn't like, normally I'm so much more patient than this, but today it was like the, the accumulation of every single time this has happened. And so I really lashed out and I am cursing and my voice is raised and I am pissing and moaning. I'm slamming shit down. And, and I'm thinking, you know, we're, he's like, what is going on with you?'cause now I'm overreacting and I can feel

Willow:

you react like that

Leah:

right, but I know that like,

Willow:

levels might be low, Leah?

Leah:

well, they probably are, but I knew as it was happening. I'm flooded, I'm flooded, and I don't have all my resources available to react in the way that would feel good to me. So instead, like the judgments start coming, like I'm being hypocritical. I'm now reacting in a way that's like, I'm mad at him for reacting, and now I'm reacting bigger as if to somehow get back at him more. And I just said, I, I can't keep talking about this because I can't get rid of this tone of voice if I keep talking about it. I have to, now I have to get out of flooded mood. Yeah. So just gimme a minute so that I can talk to you like a reasonable human being and not someone who's filled with contempt and, um, it's so uncomfortable, right? And, and it's like the labels arise that wants to be very judgmental towards myself. And so I noticed that and I just kind of breathed some space, like you were just saying. It was like, let me love and respect myself enough to actually have the space I need to recalibrate, and then come back to the table and go, you know, that was a regrettable moment. I wish I had reacted differently. Here's how this would feel better in the future. And this is the accumulation of things that I haven't said over the years because I wanna be helpful and easygoing and not demanding and controlling. So every once in a while the tsunami comes over and there's a regrettable reaction. Um. Now can I have a kiss and then it moment, right, like kiss, which I appreciated. But it takes, it takes those times, it takes that breath. It takes being able to talk back to your thoughts of judgment, whether that is like blaming yourself or blaming someone else, and then like to kind of come out of the blame game and go permission to be human.

Willow:

Yeah. I wonder, Deb's, go ahead.

Deb:

I was

Willow:

Go ahead.

Deb:

wanted to lobby little point that you so powerfully described there without that, and even with that, it's, oh, it's my hormones, it's not me. Oh, it's her hormones. And that's when some of the really messy stuffs kicks off because hormones are just messengers, right? They're just biochemistry happening in your body. And when we've, as you described, built up something and suddenly this hormonal change starts to happen. We can very often act. I remember thinking, this isn't me. Yeah. And then I thought, but it is. That was you that went downstairs and pulled the phone out of the wall and that wasn't anybody else, was it?

Leah:

Right.

Deb:

But we, because we are not socialized in a way that helps us to, even earlier, like some of the younger ones are now preempt those by being who we need to be from the off. Right?

Willow:

Mm-hmm.

Deb:

It does build up and then you get, uh, as you say, beautiful tsunami,

Leah:

Right.

Deb:

there's that shaking of heads and going, well, you know, it's her age and it's not. At its absolute fundamental level, it's not your age, it's just that you've reached the age where it's not gonna, what what you've been, isn't what nature wants for you anymore. Didn't in the first place.

Leah:

Hmm,

Willow:

You

Leah:

that's really helpful.

Willow:

it will be interesting to see these generations that are coming up behind Leah and I, who are gi being given a lot more permission in, in a lot of ways to be more authentic and to be more of themselves and to explore what that means on, on all levels, sexually and otherwise. um, I, it will be fascinating to see what, you know, shakes out with them when their ovaries start to take their final bow and, you know, their adrenals have to kick in. Also, knowing that their, they've been raised in a generation that has a, a lot more cortisol kick in, you know, and a lot more comparing mind going on due to all the social media and stuff. It'll just be interesting to see. Um, Debs, I wonder if you could close this out with, um, like guiding us through a practice. There's one in your book that I love. It's, um, where you draw these silver strands of light down through your right side and your left side through your womb and into the earth.

Deb:

Now that'll be one of the transference, healing one. There's the golden thread, but that takes quite a long time. I don't think we'll have time for that this

Willow:

Whatever you think is like digestible for our audience.

Deb:

The one I'd like to share, and it comes from transference healing, which is anchored and channeled and looked after by a woman, remarkable woman called Alexis Cartwright. So I'm acknowledging her one that I go to. Times a day is called the feeling vortex cleaning procedure, and this can be found in her book Beyond Doorways. When I first started transference, this stuff wasn't published, but of course, times have changed, right? feeling vortex is. A Socratic system above the one we are most familiar with. So it's the point at which light and sound enter and then they split to become solar plexus and womb chakra. So the feeling vortex, if you like, if you were to imagine it, know, I, I usually put my hands somewhere around my belly button ish area and just feel for a bit of density. It. It doesn't matter if people feel it or not because it's gonna happen. I'm going to probably help most by standing up. I dunno if you can see me well enough. So I'm going to start by setting an intention and I'll do the, so why I am doing this is because we collect a lot of energetic junk both through the birth process and in our daily life through sexual practice and that biochemical energy. get really stuck here. Other people's stuff, we don't want. People coming in at us emotionally will come in through this vortex. So I hold a diamond shape and I just say to myself, I hold the intention to shut down to energetic interference. And I just twist it a little bit. So I wanna close it because for a lot of women, particularly, this is very, very open. It happens through the birthing process. It doesn't close down properly, all kinds of stuff. I just reach in I can feel now like little strands. Again, it's just something that comes with practice. It's, it's more of a felt thing where perhaps I've walked around, I've been very close physically with somebody today. You know, we might have exchanged some energy there, sub the level of my consciousness and to keep me being me. I don't want that, but it's not releasing me. It's meaning more energy can come to my heart, so I can live from here.

Leah:

Mm.

Deb:

it down to the size of a dime. with my left hand, which is going out, I'm going to imagine a ball of white light, pure sourcing energy. And what we've been talking about in a sense is resourcing, right? I'm going to point a finger, that's my power finger, bring that white energy in. It'll move that it's just moving itself, I'm counting down from a hundred. To zero because I need to resource that part of my body. In women, it gets incredibly depleted. you said, Dr. Willow, we weep before we feel angry. You know, all that emotional energy's pouring out, so we need to keep it tight. And these are simple, beautiful things that people can learn from the book. They can go to a teacher's, plenty of transference teachers in America. I'll be there myself later this year.

Leah:

Remind us the name of your book.

Deb:

the book's called The Voice, the Vulva, and the Vagus Nerve.

Leah:

Hmm. Lovely. And in closing, is there any wisdom you wanna share with our audience around sensuality, sex and pleasure.

Deb:

If you are not getting it, it's not that you're broken, it's that you, you are, you are just not yet, been allowed to tap into the deep healing beauty. Importance of this. Don't deny yourself this opportunity in the human body to experience the deep pleasure that you are, you are designed for. You know, that's the quickest way to say to somebody is you are not broken. You haven't had an orgasm, that's not your fault. You know, your body knows how. Please don't deny yourself Allow the, the joy of being in a body. Even if you don't believe me right now, part of you will know that there's something you are not having.

Leah:

Mm.

Deb:

And if you're

Leah:

having

Deb:

beautiful sensuality, increase it. Keep growing. Do more, find more ways.

Leah:

Thank you, and you have a beautiful gift for our audience. Discover your Shadow saboteur. This is a quiz that helps to identify the shadow aspect impacting your decisions, and uh, where can we find that?

Deb:

That's on my website. It'll be the first page you come to

Leah:

Great.

Deb:

it's a simple enough thing, but you know, it's taken me years. I, I suppose, to help people understand that what's making the decision isn't always who you

Willow:

The conscious.

Leah:

Right, right. Beautiful.

Willow:

thank you so much for all your wisdom and for sharing with us today. It was such a pleasure, such an honor to have you on the show.

Deb:

It's an honor to be asked. It's an honor to be given the space to share with people that I hope I touch somebody with something that, and I'm in awe of your work. I'm inspired by you both tremendously. I know where there's women like you in the world. We'll go in the right direction.

Leah:

Mm. Beautiful. Thank you so much. And now. Up next is the dish, so please stay tuned.

Announcer:

Now our favorite part, the dish.

Leah:

Well, that was a very fun, uh, esoteric episode. Um,

Willow:

I love the esoteric realm.

Leah:

I'm like, you should have a podcast just doing esoteric stuff because that is so your happy

Willow:

place. I know, I know. It's great. Well, I just think that there's, um, and sometimes I wanna say too, sometimes I get, uh, fatigued by the esoteric realm.

Leah:

Yeah.

Willow:

I'm like trying to follow what the hell they're saying if I, if I'm, if I'm with them. You know, it's like okay good. But if it's like this is a bunch of hoo-ha I have that side of me too probably comes from my mom. But, um,

Leah:

Is that right?

Willow:

but, um. But yeah, I mean, you know, for, for for over 20 years I've been teaching women about their connection between their voice and their vulva. You know, and so to really bring in the soul, that was the, the big thing that I really got from the book was, um, how the vagus nerve aligns with the soul purpose and that soul calling and how there is a, a deep connection and relationship, not just in the physicality of our bodies, of how. You know, if we open our throat, we open our expression, we open our hearts, then yes, it's easier for us to open our, our genitals to receive more love into our lives. That is more of a, it feels like more of a, a physical, although emotional and spiritual as well. But then there was this soul thing that came in through

Leah:

Oh, interesting.

Willow:

of the vagus nerve, that really felt like a, a piece that I, I had never considered before.

Leah:

Mm.

Willow:

you know, you just don't know what you don't know until you start to someone, until someone opens you up to it.

Leah:

Uh, I loved her use of the word, um, vivid. What was it? Uh.

Willow:

Viv Vivid

Leah:

VV ification or something like that. Yeah, vation. I was like, Ooh. Yeah. Like it feels like being filled with a vivid vitality, being filled with like dimension and light and radiance. Um, I really got a beautiful picture of sort of that alchemical response when we clean up, you know, when we clear up and clean up and get to sort of that soul level that you were referring to. We become this very, uh, vitality. Um, very vivid, very kind of musical like, yeah, very alive. Like, and I do get geeked out on the energetics, like I could see, um, I was picking up what she was putting down. My concern was, was it clear enough for people who aren't beginners or don't know exactly this, um, this wavelength of teaching. If you, if you don't live in that landscape, it's hard to follow.

Willow:

It can be, yeah,

Leah:

Yeah.

Willow:

I think that's why, you know,

Leah:

Like when you don't know about Chakras and you don't know about, um, Chiron or astrology or, you know, imagery work, you know, or, or working in what I call the airwaves, um, you know, the, the people who would know, when you say reiki, what you're talking about,

Willow:

that means. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Leah:

uh, um,

Willow:

good to like break all that down with her and

Leah:

yeah.

Willow:

you know, bring it back down to earth for our listeners. So we'd be curious to hear what you think about this episode and how it landed with you. Um, if you felt like, boy, what the heck was she even talking about that whole time? Or if it really awoke something in you and, and made you more curious and, and you were following along pretty,

Leah:

Yeah, I was really inspired by her. You know, I felt like, um, I think she's speaking to something that's really important, this under this underpinnings of, like this maturation process. But it's, it's, it, I wish I could, um, summarize it the way I want to. I'll have to, I know when I rewatch it, it will, I'll have, I'll get more from it.

Willow:

more fine tuned. Yeah. I

Leah:

Yeah.

Willow:

you know, this, the, the piece that I really loved that she highlighted was like the Chiron, the Soul purpose, and then that Kundalini energy and how it's that 52 year return or thereabouts. Um, so it's like in that, in that range of life, if we haven't been nurturing and following and cultivating our sole purpose, it's probably gonna hit our life force energy, our kundalini, our Shakti, in a way that, um, could potentially, you know, feel, feel very challenging at that point in life. And it's, it's very poignant

Leah:

Well, and it could just feel challenging anyways because it's sort of the nature, the nature of, um, these astrological initiations, you know? Yeah.

Willow:

Yeah. For me, it felt like a really poignant and timely conversation simply because I've been looking very closely at my sole purpose and thinking, having moments of like, okay, yes, this needs to be delivered into the world. I need to keep going. I need to keep forging ahead and making it happen versus, um maybe I just need to go do microneedling for wrinkles in Southern California where it would be easy and make a lot of money. You know? And so there's, it's just been inspiring. There's been a lot of inspiration coming in for me lately to like, don't give up, keep

Leah:

Yeah.

Willow:

know, keep forging

Leah:

Yeah. That's interesting because I also feel like I went through a portal of contraction. Looking at the same thing, like how hard am I gonna work for the little returns versus, even though I may not get like whatever the status or the whatever feels like would be the most life satisfying success. Like if I could make the biggest impact, you know, broadbanding this way with what's in my heart and soul versus I just wanna do what gives me the most space, the most ease, the most money, and the most freedom, because I don't wanna work forever and ever and ever. I want to pursue the other things I care about, like traveling for pleasure and spending time with the people I love the most and not always being in service in order to survive. And I have made some hard decisions to go, yeah, I'm not gonna care about the things I thought I cared about as strongly. And I'm gonna do the thing that gets me to that result, which is a change in priorities, you know?

Willow:

Yeah. And that's happening for us now, like at the, this time in

Leah:

Yeah. And I'm still open to all of that changing again. Know it's gonna go with like it, which I think is, she's saying it's monitoring the feeling of relaxation. When I am presented with an opportunity, do I feel relaxed, inspired, or do I feel tight and like, oh, I have to say yes. Like there's all these physical sensations that if we pay attention to less about the thoughts, more about the sensations, then I think we end up making better choices for ourselves. It's hard. You know, because all of our conditioning gives us a lot of thoughts about what we should agree to, and I was just even like small things. Like this week I over-committed myself on a couple things and I had to then call back and I mean, it sucked because I had them, I this, it's a new person my friend wants me to meet and we were gonna like go do lunch. And I had them change days and then I realized, oh God, I'm really overcommitting'cause I have to go outta town the next day. And I said, look, I'm not sure. And then I went ahead and picked a restaurant that was closer to my house so I didn't have to drive far away to kind of make it happen. And then I forgot that my best friend is coming into town that same day and like, what am I doing? Like I knew in the very beginning at the very first text that it was a no. It was a fucking, no, I can't commit. But then what did I do? I tried to squeeze myself into a hundred boxes to say yes when I knew from jump. It was a no.

Willow:

a no. Listen to that people

Leah:

Listen to it,

Willow:

and your no,

Leah:

boy. Save yourself some time.

Willow:

Yeah. And energy,

Leah:

Okay, everyone, much love.

Announcer:

Thanks for tuning in. This episode was hosted by Tantric Sex Master Coach and positive psychology facilitator, Leah Piper, as well as by Chinese and Functional Medicine doctor and Taoist Taxology teacher, Dr. Willow Brown. Don't forget your comments, like subscribes and suggestions matter. Let's realize this new world together.

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Dr. Willow Brown

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Leah Piper

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