The Sex Reimagined Podcast

Mel Krangle & Suzi Sheckter: Is Your Generation BAD at Sex? The Surprising Truth About Who's Really Better at Sex & Why | #130

• Leah Piper, Dr. Willow Brown, Mel Krangle, Suzi Sheckter • Season 3 • Episode 130

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Are younger generations really more sexually liberated than their parents? In this eye-opening episode of Sex Reimagined, hosts Leah and Willow sit down with Mel and Suzi from the "Sharing My Truth" podcast to explore the surprising sexual hang-ups that persist across generations. From millennials who've never owned vibrators to the unexpected benefits of kink in healing trauma, this episode breaks down the myths about generational sexual freedom and offers practical insights for better intimacy at any age.

WHAT YOU’LL DISCOVER:

  • The Surprising Truth About Millennial Sexuality: Despite growing up with internet access and porn, many millennials still struggle with sexual communication and pleasure exploration
  • Dating App Dilemmas: Why chemistry can't be determined through text and the challenges of modern dating across generations
  • BDSM Benefits You Never Expected: How power dynamics and consensual kink can actually help heal past traumas and boost erotic energy
  • The Secret to Long-Term Sexual Satisfaction: Why scheduling intimacy might be more effective than waiting for spontaneous desire
  • Generational Wisdom Exchange: What Gen X and Millennials can learn from each other about sexual communication

EPISODE LINKS 


KING & QUEEN OF HEARTS. Leah & Willow's King & Queen of Hearts Intimacy Toolkit is on sale. Buy Now. 10% off Coupon: KINGANDQUEEN10.

THE MALE GSPOT & PROSTATE MASTERCLASS. This is for you if… You’ve heard of epic anal orgasms, & you wonder if it’s possible for you too. Buy Now. Save 20% Coupon PODCAST20.

THE VAGINAL ORGASM MASTERCLASS. Discover how to activate the female Gspot, clitoris, & cervical orgasms. Buy Now. Save 20% Coupon: PODCAST 20

LAST 10x LONGER. If you suffer from premature ejaculation, you are not alone, master 5 techniques to cure this stressful & embarrassing issue once and for all. Buy Now. Save 20% Coupon: PODCAST20.

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Leah:

Hey there, it's Leah and Willow, your hosts of the Sex Reimagined

Willow:

Yes, and today we had hosts of this other podcast called Sharing My Truth, which was really fun. Mel and Suzi are the hosts of this. They have open, honest conversations. They air every Wednesday. Mel is a Gen X digital entrepreneur and married mom of two based in Toronto and London. And Suzi's a younger millennial actress, presenter, and content creator based in Turkey. Toronto, very cool city. They come together on their podcast to share their uncensored experiences and perspectives on life, love, trauma, and s*x So tune in and turn on and fall in love with these two on our podcast, and then go check out us on their podcast.

Announcer:

Welcome to the Sex Reimagined Podcast, where sex is shame free and pleasure forward. Let's get into the show.

Leah:

They're here. The Sharing My Truth podcast hosts are on the show. Welcome Mel and Suzi.

Mel & Suzi:

Hi. Thank you so, so much. Thank you so much for having us.

Willow:

Yeah, we're so excited to drop in with you guys. You guys really, um, offer a cool perspective around, um, generational differences, like the, the gen X's versus the millennials and all the different things that we've had that both generations have have been kind of spoon fed. And how do we sort through that? And, you know, what's, what's the real truth behind, um, you know, what we grew up in culturally. So excited to drop into this, especially as it relates to sexuality.

Mel & Suzi:

Absolutely. There's just literally, it's kind of a never ending thing to talk about and that's why you can't shut us up. Like we just are constantly, um, finding new ways of, um, like why, why do we have these different perspectives on these topics where we don't have a huge age gap, right? Like it's less than 25 years. It's pretty, it's pretty enormous to be fair. Things that are different because Mel grew up differently and yet we still do have some of the same opinions, right, that maybe you wouldn't expect and I don't really believe that Mel is a regular 50 year old And maybe I'm not a regular 29 year old. So, you know it's just we're kind of we found each other in a weird way and we have weirdly similar and yet different opinions

Willow:

How did you guys find each other? Tell us about the genesis story of this whole operation.

Mel & Suzi:

Oh, my God, Mel. It's like so beautiful. Um, uh, we actually met through Mel's husband, which is so funny. Um, we have an episode about it on our pod if you really want to dive in deep to it, but we actually met through her husband. I met him at like a weird work happy hour. Um, and we got to talking because Mel and her husband are both, um, in this weird kind of, I don't know, Mel, how to describe it. It's like the domain name. Um, Well, I'm sort of in digital marketing also in like domain, like we buy and sell, uh, domains cause we're so old that we got into the game early.

Willow:

yeah.

Leah:

Cool.

Mel & Suzi:

yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it's like sexually focused almost. So they have a lot of opinions. Certain percentage. Yeah. So they know a lot of weird stuff and I just love talking about sex. I'll talk about sex to whoever wants to talk to me about sex. So that's how her husband and I got started talking and then he was like, Oh, do you want to meet my, um, my wife? She like wants to start a podcast. And I was like. Yeah, that's so pretty much it.

Willow:

That was history.

Mel & Suzi:

Then we got along, which I think is the, the unusual bit that we're clearly very different, but we clicked and we genuinely enjoy like the podcast and each other's company. And we just laugh all the time. And I think that that's the great thing. So we're talking about serious things and things that are meaningful, but we're, it's lighthearted. I mean, you've got to laugh. Otherwise, you know, we're going to cry.

Willow:

life is not going to be very much fun.

Mel & Suzi:

Yeah.

Willow:

So how long have you guys been at it?

Mel & Suzi:

Oh my God. It's been like a year and a half now, I think. About a year and a half. So pretty recent, but we've seen a lot of amazing growth, um, and just because people love, love, and I'm sure you guys know this, to like, listen to sex, listen to sex, whatever it is, whatever's taboo, um, whatever's happening, people are not used to, and I think it's weird for me. And it's also, I think a little bit weird for Mel because we're so open. And people in general. In our society, in North America, are not open about sex yet. And that surprises me because I'm a very open person, obviously, and it's just, it's wild. So we love talking about it. People love listening to it, but people do not want to talk about it themselves. And I think that's why we've seen such amazing growth in the last little, um, few months. And yeah, it's been, it's been awesome. Yeah. I mean, particularly for me anyway, we talk about the generational thing is I'm continually amazed at young people still have so many hang ups, and I mean Millennials, Gen Z, about sex, talking about it, you know, um, just about so many things around it that I find surprising, because I think, well, surely that's the domain of my generation and older, and we have valid reasons for that. And you think, well, now it's all, you know, you can buy a sex toy anyway. You can, you know, everything's, everyone's watching porn. Like, it's all much more open, and particularly women and men. Paratively to the past, but we still have a long, long way to go. And obviously there are lots of reasons for that, but I find that very interesting how younger generate women particularly still are struggling a lot with.

Willow:

What are some of the hang ups that you, like, specifically that you're, that you've been witnessing and noticing?

Mel & Suzi:

Some of my friends who were like in their twenties, early thirties, um, true millennials, right? Like we've grew up like watching porn pretty much like there, it was always available. Sex isn't like super weird. Obviously, like we're not like in the non binary phase where like the Gen Z's and what we're seeing like that's happening. But, um, we're in this weird stage where like, yeah, of course I own a sex toy, but like a lot of my friends don't. And I'm like, how do you not own a vibrator? How do you not own like a simple vibrator? Not even like a weird shaped octopus dick. But like, how do you not own just like a regular vibrator? Like, like it's just, it's something so for your own pleasure. Why are you not doing that for yourself? So there's just like those little weird nuances in the millennial stage where I'm like, I would understand that why Mel's friends might not have a vibrator or a sex toy or may not want to talk about it, but some of my friends who I'm like, well, they all do,

Willow:

Do, do, so when we're talking about these, these millennials who don't own vibrators, um, is it, is there, is there, is it a shame thing or, or is it they don't have the, they haven't been educated, they haven't found that part of their body? What do you think it is like overall?

Mel & Suzi:

It's such a good question because I've never been like that. Like as soon, like I turned 18 and I like went to Amsterdam like on a Euro trip and I like got my first vibrator and I was like, I'm never going back. Like, you know, like you come for the first time and you're like, why wouldn't I want to make this better? Like, it's just crazy to me. So I don't know really what it is. A hundred percent, I think it's about. Shame and people still feel weird about going into sex stores, but then that doesn't really take it back because I'm like, you can order stuff online like so easily. Like, why are we not doing that as much? So it's a great question. I personally don't know. I think it's about like, also like, Oh, I don't know if I need it. I can use my hands or I maybe just want a man. It's something that I, I don't know if I'll ever get answered.

Leah:

I kind of wonder if, you know, I was just listening to, um, it's a podcast, uh, armchair expert, um, and he had a sex expert on around the beginning of the new year. I'm just catching up on some episodes cause I'm out of smut to listen to. Well, I need some new smut. I am so like bored right now. Um, but. What's that?

Mel & Suzi:

We gotta make some then.

Leah:

You know what, I was just speaking to a client today who is working on some of his sexual stuff and he's a writer for his job. And so one of the things he came up with for his coaching action plan was to write some erotica

Willow:

I

Leah:

and to start re re programming himself and the way he looks at sexuality because he's taking on. He's, getting sober from porn. And so we're trying to re engage a new way for him to explore sexuality. And I just love that he was like, do you think I could write it? I'm like, oh yeah, you can write it. You know, let's, let's go on an adventure. Yeah, yeah.

Willow:

creative outlet. Yeah.

Leah:

But one of the things that we're talking about in this episode, back to this episode, um, this author from, and therapist from Santa Barbara actually, Willow. Was like we have a story that says women's sexual pleasure is confusing and more challenging and harder to access than men. And she really posed the pushback on that because it's not that we're more difficult or that we're just our sexual orgasm is just as easy and simple as a boys. It's just we've normalized boys orgasms. We have a clit, they have a penis. You rub where it's most sensitive. It's not that hard to figure out. We just haven't normalized it that, you know, women need to explore their clitoris and that they can do it at a younger age than they ever thought. It's like we're, we've been given this idea that it's up to boys, mainly, from a heterosexual standpoint. To make you come.

Mel & Suzi:

Yeah.

Leah:

No one really teaches the boys how, you know, same sex relationships I think have a much easier time getting each other off than heterosexual relationships. Um, thoughts?

Mel & Suzi:

That, that, that makes sense though, doesn't it? Because when, if you're very young, you're starting on your journey, you have absolutely no idea what you're doing. And if you, I mean, you barely know what you're doing, you know, with yourself. So if you're in a same sex relationship, at least you sort of both vaguely know where everything is. So, I mean, you've got a heads up literally in that respect. I think, you know, going back to this idea of why has have some things kind of progressed for women, but some things really don't seem to have moved on as fast as they really should have. I think it's a lot to do with the education. You've got to remember, I mean, I have two teenage daughters. Now I'm very open minded, obviously I'm doing this podcast. I communicate a lot. I mean, that may seem strange to people cause I'm English, but I do communicate. I talk a lot. It annoys them, but you know, I do it. But, um, I, you know, obviously I'm.

Willow:

you talk, I like your accent.

Mel & Suzi:

Isn't she sexy? It's unbearable sometimes. But I mean, a lot of people I know who are mothers who, you know, I'm 51, who are in their 50s or late 40s, whatever, and they have teenage girls, boys, they don't communicate with them. They don't talk to them about sex. And they do this really odd thing, they're like, well, you can't go out and you shouldn't be drinking. You shouldn't be doing this. You shouldn't be having sex. And I always say to them, what were you doing when you were 16? I mean, obviously you want them to be safe and, but you've got to strike a balance between kind of guiding them and being weird. Like, you know, you would, what were you trying to do when you were 16? You were trying to get drunk and get laid. I mean, you know, that's the norm. That's what humans do. And I think you, people really sort of still shrouded in this sort of weird thing. So they're teaching these kids who are millennials, Gen Z, well, my kids are Gen Zs, and it sort of filters down. So I think almost until there's a generation that isn't weird about it, then the next generation, Then maybe they have a chance of not being weird about it because we're just perpetuating it. And I also think there's this thing like men are still taught this thing like you're talking about, you know masturbation for men, I mean when I was growing up, I didn't even know that women masturbate didn't even know that was a thing like women

Leah:

of doing it, but I didn't know it was a thing and

Mel & Suzi:

I was what is clit? Like, we don't even, like, worry

Leah:

no one was talking about the clit when I was in high school.

Mel & Suzi:

I can actually think of the time when I heard that word for the first time. Like, Oh, that makes sense. You know, like, you know, but for years, like in your twenties, had no idea that it actually had some kind of function or needed to be stimulated. And that if men aren't taught that if they're not educated. Then, and we're, you know, we're talking, obviously the, the greater proportion of relationships are men and women, then there's no, there's no hope. I mean, there's just, and we keep perpetuating this thing. And then I think young women have relationships and they, um, they're just endlessly wanting to pleasure men. Like when they start, they start their relationships. They, they don't think about themselves and we need to change that somehow. And we haven't succeeded. I don't know how we're going to succeed, but I don't think we have.

Willow:

Well, by podcasts and conversations like thiS. Yeah. Thank you, Dr. Willow is that what you're seeing, Suzi, in your generation, too? Like, women are starting out into relationships. I mean, that is so true. So many of the women that I support and help, they're like, I don't feel like I'm having a good time, because I'm, they're performing, right? They're not actually feeling sexual pleasure, because they're not accustomed to, Get like their sexuality, right? We all are responsible for our own arousal and our own sexuality.

Leah:

but no one teaches you that.

Willow:

yeah. And if we're not in touch with it and we don't, we don't know that then like, um, yeah, we get into these relationships thinking that we're there to serve the other and that they should turn our arousal on, which that turns into a big fucking downward spiral quickly. So Suzi, is that, are you seeing that in your generation still?

Mel & Suzi:

100%. Um, I mean, I didn't learn, like we just spoke about, I didn't learn what the clit was, um, until, like, I, like, found, in quotations, my clit when I had my first orgasm at, like, 18. When I was having, I started having sex at, like, 14, so that's four years without an orgasm. Like, that's insane to me now, where I'm, like, I was just faking it, but not knowing I was faking it. And I think A lot of women go through that because we just don't know what is going on down there. And now I'm like, how could I ever fake it again when I know what an orgasm is, but I will say a short little story. I was, um, I've been like, I just broke up with my boyfriend recently. And so I've been dating around and sleeping around and, um,

Willow:

Get

Mel & Suzi:

and doing research, doing research...

Willow:

that's right. For the podcast. It's all in the name of the podcast.

Mel & Suzi:

dedicated to body ladies. And And I, um, I was, I slept with this, like, Gen X guy. Okay, very nice gentleman, okay, not angry about it, and he, um, he, he was like, I, and he was really great in the bedroom, and he was like, I don't understand, um, like, men, it's so easy to jerk off, and we can just come whenever the we want. And he's like, you only get so many chances with a woman and like, why wouldn't you want to make sure that they are having a good time and like pleasing them when you're with them, like, and not like care about yourself in that way. Right. And I was like, Oh my God, like, why doesn't every man think like you though? Like, that's not a normal thought of a man. And then I was like, why is that not a normal thought

Leah:

No, I think it is.

Mel & Suzi:

is it?

Leah:

Oh yeah, I mean the men that I encounter, they are so single focused on wanting to make their partner come because their arousal is hooked into their partner's arousal. So they want to feel like the man, like you have to come in order for me to know I'm okay sexually. So then a woman often feels all this pressure to perform and then there's an upset when it's like, well, why aren't you coming? There must be something wrong with you. And she's like, I don't know. You know, isn't it, I mean, shouldn't you be doing something? So I actually see that like men want women to come as much as women want to

Willow:

Well, but this is

Leah:

but they've never been taught how to do it either.

Willow:

It's an interesting statement though, coming from Suzi saying that, you know, she's seeing more men not having that perspective in her generation. So somehow that got lost.

Leah:

Well, it might be, I want to push back on that a little bit because I work with a lot of men that are your generation and that's what they're telling me. I don't know that there's a lot of men having that conversation with women. That, that's what might, might, might make that guy unusual. But I think at the heart of heart of most men is they want to please women. They want to pleasure women. They want to feel awesome. They want to feel confident. They want to feel like they are

Willow:

I gave her the best fucking orgasm of her life.

Leah:

Yeah. I don't think guys are sexually selfish. I think that's an old story from generations past, I don't know that's really true anymore.

Mel & Suzi:

Well, yeah, and like, women are not speaking up about what we want.

Willow:

I guess it just depends on what circles you're

Mel & Suzi:

in. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, do they actually, do they want to pleasure women because it makes them feel manly? So in, in itself, it's quite an egotistical act, or are they actually doing it because they really care about the woman and really want to. So they're saying, look, the woman takes more. So let, let's, I can, I can do it generally more easily because of my function more easily if we're going to put it in those terms. So let's concentrate on the woman first, make sure she's in a good place and then it's me. How many men actually are like that? So they actually really, it's not ego.

Leah:

I don't think you can separate the two. I think it's both.

Mel & Suzi:

Okay. Fair

Leah:

Yeah, I don't think it's an either or. I think they both want it for their ego, and they also generally want their lover to feel pleasure.

Willow:

I mean, yeah, they generally go hand in hand hand in hand. You get off on both. Don't we It's both?

Mel & Suzi:

It's true. Like I, wanna, I want a guy to come to make me feel good because I'm like, oh my God, I just made my man come. But then I'm like, I want him to come to feel pleasure. So,

Leah:

When everyone comes, everyone tends to feel successful.

Willow:

Happy. Laughter.

Leah:

I think sometimes like when it's not very easy for one person to climax, there tends to be a hopelessness that gets felt by both people and maybe the male partner just kind of feels like they can't succeed and so they give up. But they still have their needs and then it, and I think there's some unconscious sexual energy that both sexes have. I think the predominant one for men is they aren't aware of their own energy when they penetrate a partner. And so what they end up fucking into them is their stress from the day, their tension, sort of this unconscious drive. And some selfishness, like they just want to get relief because wouldn't it be nice to sleep so good tonight? Well, nothing will help you sleep better than having an ejaculation. And so you're having your routine sex at the end of the night, and she becomes a depository for all that stress, all that tension, all that unconsciousness. And he's not really paying attention always to her pleasure if she's not also paying attention to her pleasure. And then we have years that go by, and she's feeling unfulfilled, and frankly, gets sick and tired of having sex. Like, what's in it? What's the payoff for her? She's not getting the pleasure. Instead, she's getting this tension. And then he wonders why she's such a cold bitch. I mean, it ends up being this weird thing, and it's like they don't even realize it's not because she's a cold bitch. It's not because she doesn't know how to orgasm, maybe she hasn't unpacked her full pleasure potential and connected to her own desire and connected to her own turn on because no one's bothered to ask her about it. And meanwhile, they're both feeling inadequate and blaming the other one. And then we wonder why people get divorced after 19 years, 25 years, 42 years. I mean. I've watched so many divorces, oddly, I've had so many couples come through my workshops, who are at the breaking up point after 42 years of marriage. It's a very strange number. Anyways, I don't know, I mean, that's my theory. My theory on sort of the relationship that's gone cold in the bedroom is there's some unconscious sex happening. Where he is a little bit of sleep and I don't say this to like man bash. I think it's quite instinctual and biological for a man to ejaculate to release the tension of the day. It's a reset button, but. It takes one second to come up with a thought form that says what do I want to penetrate her with tonight? That she feel beautiful, that she's safe, that she belongs, that she's desirable, that she's hot, that she's juicy, that she feels pleasure, that she feels like a goddess. I mean, all you have to do is think of one gorgeous word to say, feel this babe, penetrate her with that and see what happens after 10 days.

Mel & Suzi:

yeah, that is so interesting. I've literally never heard that in those terms of like, you're penetrating with actual feeling. I've never ever heard that. That's very interesting. I saw something recently in a podcast or something on social media, and it was about how men and women orgasm and that for men it's release. So the energy is going that way. And for women, it's like energizing. So the men are just getting rid of stuff, like you're saying, where women it's giving them life.

Willow:

Well, it also depends on how you're orgasming and how you're directing the energy because men could injaculate as well and fill themselves up with all of that jing chi. And women can totally, you know, shoot their ejaculation out of their body and their energy out of their body

Leah:

Yeah, but oftentimes when women ejaculate they can recirculate that and and it can be energizing. It is true that energetically I mean if you look at It right like out in so yeah, we can receive a ton That's why women are so chatty afterward.

Mel & Suzi:

Wait, can I actually like, I want, cause I actually had this conversation really recently and I was like, what, um, what is this, uh, like post cum clarity? And why, why do men get it so hard and women just want to like snuggle and enjoy and like chat? Like, why are men like, get the fuck out of my face, I do not want to talk to you anymore.

Leah:

think I have an answer for this one,

Mel & Suzi:

Please.

Leah:

when he goes to ejaculate, it drains him. Right now, as a younger man, he's got a shorter refractory period. They're not a perpetual motion machine.

Mel & Suzi:

The most, the majority of people. The majority of men at least are not having sex a lot. I think a lot of, I mean of all, that's the other thing we find like, you know, and they talk about it a lot in the media, young people not having sex as much. I'm convinced it's because they don't go out as much. Yeah. Like I think, I'm always saying to Suzi you know, when I was young. When I was her age, if I didn't go out, I mean, she goes out a lot, but if I didn't go out, you know, what were you doing? Staring at the wall? I mean, you couldn't sit in your seat, order a pizza, order a date, order a pair of jeans and not move a nanomillimeter. Now you can do

Willow:

Yeah, it's such a different world.

Mel & Suzi:

Exactly. And you had to go, go to the bars and parties and meet people. Otherwise you weren't doing anything.

Willow:

Well, and I wonder too if if all of that sort of sort of like on demand ordering on your little square device that you always have right next to you like if that makes people lazy and in their Way of communicating and being in relationship, being in relationship with themselves and then being relationship with each other. It's like, oh, well, you know, that one didn't work out. Let me just swipe to find the next one. You know, it's like, yeah, there, there is this sort of more on demand culture that we're living in. And so is it, is it making, uh, Millennials and Gen Zers like more or less apt to put the work in that it takes to create a, you know, beautiful, long sustaining relationship.

Mel & Suzi:

Yeah, I mean, I don't know, like I, as someone who literally just got back on the apps after an eight year relationship, like the apps have changed a lot since I was on them at like 20 years old. And it's like, and I can't, I look at these guys, we're trying to talk to me and like the small, the small talk on an app or like on texting, I just cannot stand. And so I'd way rather, it's just exhausting to me. Like it's, I'd way rather meet someone in person. And this is obviously so personal to me. Like I would way rather meet someone in person, feel a vibe. If there's a good vibe, if I'm actually attracted to them in person, because in person is a lot different than a picture. I'm like feeling whatever we're feeling and then knowing right away if it's going to work or not instead of texting someone for like two or more weeks and then finally getting together because your life is busy and shit happens and then finally getting together and like being like, Oh my God, I really don't like this person and like now I have to like ghost them and then it's just like exhausting and then you feel bad and then you find someone new and you do the exact same thing over and over again.

Willow:

Boy, you're really I'm the online dating, Susie.

Mel & Suzi:

Literally hate online dating so much, like I, I don't know if I'm ever going to go on one of these hinged dates. I'm literally on it for like the ego boost and the distraction, um, of just my daily life. So that's personally me. I'm, but like, you know, someone like my brother who met his like gorgeous fiance on Tinder.

Willow:

Lots of people find them. Yeah.

Mel & Suzi:

and it's like, it happens all the time. So it's really just like who you are and what you're looking for. For me, I need that personal in person connection though. We just did an episode on dating apps actually, and it's statistically obviously it's going to happen because if everyone's doing it,

Leah:

But it's dismal for men, isn't it?

Mel & Suzi:

I think so. I think the thing is that they have to, that there's so much kind of performance about it, like before they've even done anything, before they've even met you. I mean, you think before the apps, you like, we're just talking about, I had to go to a bar, I had to go to a party, you know, you had to get, you know, know each other, even like a bookstore or a coffee shop. No one does that anymore. And you didn't know anyone, but you didn't know this person liked hiking. Was it. You know, a concert pianist was, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, jet skiing, mastermind, you know, whatever. You had to find this out by going on a few dates, maybe going away, talking to them. Whereas I think, you know, far too much information. I mean, I don't think I would have slept with anybody when I was in my twenties, if I'd known that much information. I mean, just wouldn't have done, would you? You'd just be like, no, thanks. thanks

Leah:

Also like chemistry is,

Willow:

So important.

Leah:

Well, it's not only important, but it's impossible to have when you won't even meet somebody. If you're only having a text connection, if you've only swiped and maybe like had a couple phone calls, you would be surprised who you could possibly be attracted

Mel & Suzi:

exactly. I've said this to susie,

Leah:

women have a huge advantage with online dating as compared to men. I mean, there's the, there's the Adam Sandler effect. Women are, can be very attracted to an, uh, someone who's not very attractive, but if they're funny and they make you feel great and they're wonderful conversationalist, they can become so beautiful to you. You can become so attracted to someone's spirit and how they carry of themselves and what they do in the world and how the world responds to them. And they may not be a classic, handsome dude, you

Mel & Suzi:

That's a hundred percent. They have charisma. In fact, Suzi showed me this picture of this guy and she's like, Oh my God, he's bald. And I'm like, yeah, but he could be, you've got to kind of go outside your parameters cause he could be a really nice guy and I do like funny guys. Like I'm much more attracted to the personality than the face. But you don't know until you've met them and you have, not you, but like people on the apps, they've got all this criteria that they think is really important. And sometimes when you meet somebody, you're like, Oh, actually, I don't give a shit that he's not a banker or whatever it is that you want.

Leah:

I have to tell you, some of the homelier guys are much better at sex.

Willow:

Because they've studied. studied

Leah:

Than the best looking guys because they got to work harder. Yeah.

Mel & Suzi:

Our short Kings are so good at fucking. It is unbelievable. They have to try so much harder because they're like short and they had to like, and they're honestly, I found that short guys are like wealthier. They want it, they're more generous. The less attractive a man is, the better he is at his everything else. It's like the most interesting thing ever. Yeah. I mean, again, it's great.

Leah:

Interesting. So, Suzi I'm curious, like, who are you looking for now? What kind of guy? What are you looking for in the next relationship department?

Mel & Suzi:

60 million dollar question. Such a good idea. I mean, such a good question. Like, I have no idea.

Leah:

Mm hmm.

Mel & Suzi:

It's so funny, like, I, um, if you were to ask me this at like 20 or 25, it would be a completely different answer than I am now with my late, late 20s. Like, where I'm like, I mean, yeah. Right. Like,

Willow:

I hope so.

Mel & Suzi:

funny. Cause I still have like so much love and like respect for my like ex boyfriend who was like literally such an angel. And like, but we just, you know, in my opinion, it was just, we were on, like, we were going on different paths a bit. And I just, I was like, what am I missing from this? And I'm like, it's, and I don't know if you ladies will agree, but I think a lot of millennials, um, millennial women are like, Oh my God, I actually do want to be taken care of a bit. And this is something that I, at 20, I was like, Oh my God, I am, I can take care of myself. I make a lot of money. I am doing amazing. Like I don't need a man to do anything for me. I'm going to pay for my dinners. I'm going to do whatever. And now I'm like, Oh my God. Like, of course I'm still making money, whatever, whatever, taking care of myself. But I'm like, no, I actually do want a man to treat me and like, like do nice things for me. And like, In the way of, of monetary value, which doesn't sound good when I say it, but that's, it's just the reality of how I feel in my late twenties. Um,

Leah:

That's exactly how I felt at your age and going into my 30s. And there was something validating about it too, like I wanted to be worthy of someone cherishing me with things like gifts and trips and, you know, being a provider. And I am going to also reciprocate. I'm gonna, I want to also have someone to spoil and delight and it's like I'm not in it for the money, but I want the money to represent something and there, and it makes sense that there's a little bit of worth and a little bit of money that go together because that's how we place value on things. I mean, I think in my. And when I hit like 25, I'd had enough relationships with broke artists. I was like, I am not dating another guitarist. I am setting that shit down. I love the artist. I, but I just don't want to be in relationship with you anymore.

Mel & Suzi:

A hundred percent.

Willow:

they're often very good in bed. They have good rhythm. They know how to rock the boat.

Mel & Suzi:

I'm not against a musician, but he better be touring, you know what I mean? Like,

Leah:

I was a sucker for it. Yeah.

Mel & Suzi:

it just, like, I, I really, like, I, I really want a nice,

Leah:

ha ha ha ha ha

Mel & Suzi:

for, I love, I've always loved a really genuine, nice guy who makes me laugh. Like, that's just, I love a nice guy. I've really just like really enjoyed a nice genuine guy, so that's just something that I've always been attracted to. Um, but yeah, it's really, it's really difficult when you also want that monetary value a little bit. And just the way of like, I want to feel appreciated and valued, and I want a guy to be like, this is going to make her happy, so I want to do this for her.

Willow:

Yeah, yeah, it's really nice when it's that genuine, like, you know, there's such an abundance of financial flow that it just, it's, it's a gift for them to to give the gift to the one that they cherish the most, Yeah,

Mel & Suzi:

Yeah, I think, Yeah, I mean, I always have said to my daughters from a very young age that when looking for a partner and they're both heterosexual that, you know, I don't really, I don't care about their background, you know, whatever, you know, what, what you should look for is somebody who's kind, like, honestly, that sounds a little cheesy, but is a real, is a good person who honestly wants to have your back and is a nice person. And the other thing is, And it is a kind of outdated idea, but a man who will step up. Um, and you know, cause there will be periods in your life when you have children or whatever it is. When you, maybe you have to at some point support him and supports you, whatever it is, but somebody who's willing to step up, who's not going to be basically a guitarist making no money. And I always say, you know, it doesn't have to be president of the United States or Coca Cola corporation, but just somebody has that in them that They want to, you know, do something. They want to provide.

Willow:

Yeah, I think it's so nice to, you know, for, for, for a man and for a woman to bring stability to a relationship, you know, a sense of stability inside of themselves and also in the 3d realm of like financially and, you know, can take care of stuff. And can move, move the needle forward in life. And you know, we do look to, to the male counterparts to be those providers and those protectors and they actually are wired their brains and their hormones and their bodies are wired to do that. And so, um, when they do that, well, there is a sense of empowerment, you know, that comes with that. I think what we could do as heterosexual women is and create more space for them to be in their power, you know, because we've all grown up. I think all these generations have grown, maybe not the Gen Zers right now, but, um, you know, this, these messages of like, you got to be strong as a woman. You got to do it all on your own. You got to make sure that you can cover yourself. Cause you know, this is a message for a lot of women, like you don't depend on a man. And, um, and so, so there's a lot of masculine. Uh, moving through the world that women are doing right there, moving through the world in that yang way. We're swimming in a sea of yang days, and it leaves no room as a, you know, as the female counterpart, it leaves no room for the man to be the man if she's. So busy being them in that role.

Mel & Suzi:

I think that's very well said. It's 100 percent it. And we are very conflicted about it. And I think as a Gen Xer, I was taught, um, by my father, like you stand on your own two feet, you get an education. If you want to drive a fancy car, live in a fancy house, you do it. You, and so I was taught that and I did do that. But I think I also the missing pieces that it's nice to have a partner to be a team to do it together because there'll be moments when you need, you need each other and you need to be vulnerable to each other. Uh, and that's where the beauty of it is the beauty of a successful relationship.

Willow:

exactly. And, you know, in, in hetero, there is, um, there is that sort of like, you know, the, the biological dynamics that are going on, you know, in, in a male brain versus a female brain, when we're looking at same sex, it's like, we all carry yang and yin energy in our bodies. And we, we can step into either role as we choose to. Um, and I think that, you know, We're adaptable creatures. So we can, we can create that, that dynamic in anything that we do. But Leah and I just were doing a, um, she hosted a, um, like a BDSM training in her house last weekend with, with Om Rupani. And it was super fun. And one of the things that we talked about was super dynamic. I mean, so many fucking layers. I'm still integrating and processing. We all are because it was really, um, Fascinating. But one of the things that we talked a lot about was Eros lives went more fully. It's more alive when we're playing with a yes and a no at the same time. So erotic energy builds and thrives when things are a little naughty or a lot naughty, you know? So when we bring in the no and play with the light side with the, Oh yeah, like, yes, like, you know, that other quality of sexuality, then we have more charge. We have more energy. It's more erotic. We're more aroused. We're more turned on. So, um, all this to say that. Uh, you know, there's, there's really, it's very, BDSM is actually very Daoist from my perspective now. It's, it's the yin and the yang, like we can't have one without the other. We don't know what light is if we don't know what dark is. We don't know what dark is if we don't know what light is. And so I think we are, you know, In this culture where it's like, Oh, well, you know, get the degree and get the job and make the money and get the home and have the kids and do all the things that, Oh, good for you. Good for you. Good for you. But it's like, meanwhile, there's these parts of ourselves that are hiding in the shadows that are tucked away, that are like feeling like I'm not worthy or I don't have enough or you know, am I, you know, good enough for this man or this woman. And so bringing those things. to the playground of sexuality really lightens them and gives them a chance to come to light.

Mel & Suzi:

Yeah. I think that's very interesting. The yes and the no. I, like, that makes so much sense to me that, now that you're saying it, I'm like, why are you making me horny, Willow? Um, so rude. But, uh, yeah, no, that makes sense to me a hundred percent.

Willow:

What, what would be some of this putting you guys on the spot a little bit and kind of personal, but if you don't mind, um, like what would be like, what would be a no for you? What would be like a naughty little no that you might have fun like bringing into a sexual scenario?

Mel & Suzi:

like a naughty no or a fuck no? I'm like a naughty no. Like a fuck, like a fuck no, like, get off, get out of my butt? Like, okay, got it. Um, I don't know. You never know. Um, no, like a naughty no. Eh. Okay. Like a, okay, let's try it. Let's a fuck no. Is like, I don't like pee pee. Anything. P Yes. I don't like, no. Okay. That's a fuck no for me. Um,

Willow:

no peeing, people.

Mel & Suzi:

pee, no. Like weird, you know? No P zone. any, yeah. Defecate. Like none of that. That's the, that's a fuck no for me.

Willow:

no

Mel & Suzi:

But

Willow:

no

Mel & Suzi:

no pee no poop.. Mm mm Um, nothing that smells weird. You know what I

Willow:

Okay. Okay. Well, sex sometimes smells

Mel & Suzi:

but it's, it's not an, it's a, in the better way that those things do. But not

Willow:

okay. okay. It's not waste.

Mel & Suzi:

coming on. Um, but no, the, the naughty no, I mean, like, I'm into, like, quite a few things. Mm hmm. Like, I mean, you know, a little, like, a little light, like, a little BDSM light, you know, like, I love a little spank. A spank? a little

Willow:

choking,

Mel & Suzi:

a little

Willow:

a little spit.

Mel & Suzi:

the whole I'm into the whole thing.

Willow:

What about a little bit of degradation, like a little bit of humiliation?

Mel & Suzi:

I love that. Oh, I love it. No, never, Mel.

Willow:

Shit.

Mel & Suzi:

like, love it. I think she, it's interesting, like, she said she's submissive. That's not my bag at all. Just in the bedroom, because in life, I'm like, yeah. Your dominating. I'm not, and, yeah. I don't like girls. You don't like being submissive? No. Oh.

Willow:

you like, do you

Mel & Suzi:

Are you the dom then?

Willow:

dominating?

Mel & Suzi:

I'm more dominating? I don't like being, I don't like being, Um, I don't like things where you're some like holding throat, like you're being

Willow:

of that for Mel.

Mel & Suzi:

that's just doesn't.

Willow:

that would be a big

Mel & Suzi:

It's a huge no for me, and I'm not, we've discussed this many times, I do have a bit of a problem with spit. Yeah, she's very non spit, um, but you know, I'm not super into that, but I, I'm not, uh, I don't like the submittive thing. So you're a dom? Yeah. She's a dom. I think I could be a dominatrix.

Willow:

I could see you in some, some, plastic leather.

Mel & Suzi:

Yeah.

Willow:

With a whip in your hand.

Mel & Suzi:

New career for me. I can see you wearing your, like, Manola Blahniks, like, on someone's back and being like, you like that? Yeah. Yeah, why not? That's you. Yeah, why not?

Willow:

Oh my gosh, That's so fun. Now, uh, what about us? So we're talking some fun shit here. We're talking about dominating. Um. I really dig it I was having a lot of fun being in the dom role and I was doming two Pretty smoking hot men too. So that was really fun. And it was also a lot to dom two men at once. And this was also my first time and I was like on the heaviest days of my moon cycle. So there was a lot going on, but, um, but I rose to the occasion and I, I, I'm, I'm down for the submissive and I was a little bit scared about the humiliation piece. Cause I'm a sensitive little girl, sensitive little lamb. And I get real emotional, real easy. And I was like, I don't know if I'm going to dig that humiliation part, but it actually hit something inside of me, which is this, um, you know these old stories and these old beliefs and I'll give you the specifics of it for me It was like, you know people are like men are leaving me because I don't cause enough drama in their lives and there they think drama and codependency is what love is. And so they go back to the drama queen right and the one that they have to save because they're mr. Savior. That's their archetype. So I'm just projecting all this stuff on, onto these men. Meanwhile, my story is like, well, I must be boring. I must be too vanilla. I must be too like uninteresting, you know? So that was sort of the, the thing that I gave these men to feed back to me in this role that playing that we were doing. And they both were like, one of them in particular was, was quite good at it. And he, um, he really brought it into the present moment, because the reality is both of them were interested in me, so I know I'm not uninteresting to them, right? So they both kind of like had a thing for me too over the weekend, which was great, had a thing for them too. But, um, but then in this scene, they're like, you're so boring, you know, and so for a while, I was like, okay, yeah, but it's not really hitting, it's not really happening for me, and And then one of them was like, do something fucking interesting right now. God, you're so boring. I don't even know why I'm wasting my time with you, you know? And then that like finally hit something in me that was this

Mel & Suzi:

to you? No,

Willow:

old.

Mel & Suzi:

Oh, right. Okay.

Willow:

Yeah, and then meanwhile, they're mixing it with all this sexual pleasure, the humiliation gets mixed with this sexual pleasure, and it kind of scrambles the, the old patterning in your synaptic, you know, cephalic brain, and basically, it, it, Un, un grips you from the belief because I actually did grow up and I was processing yesterday with a friend of mine just the whole weekend and, and as I was talking it out and kind of processing it out, I was like, Oh my God, my dad used to say this all the time. Anytime I would say I'm bored, he would say only boring people are bored. That's how, that's like what I grew up on that phrase. So then what did I do? I went out into life and I studied all the most fascinating, esoteric, obscure things. Like I teach Taoist sexology, who even knows what that fucking is, right? And so it's just like. You know, I've got, I've accumulated all this knowledge and I've always been wise. And so it's like, I know I'm not boring. You know, I, I know that clearly, but, but there was still just this old sort of like unconscious, and I think that's the power of this work is like, you're bringing unconscious, the subconscious, the subordinate part of you to a place where it can be seen, where it can be acknowledged, where it can be met, so that it doesn't have such a grip on you and you're not making choices from those subconscious places anymore.

Leah:

Yeah, that, it's, I, this Kinky BDSM stuff really, it turns some things on its head. It's, it's really, it's a bizarre and wonderful landscape to watch, like the amount of cathartic potential. lives inside of it. Um, and I think we have a lot of pictures that arise that make us think, ooh, I don't know, that's for me. Or, you know, like I have a, I have an aversion for I need like the pain stuff that's connected to it. I don't, I'm not big into floggers. You can spank me a little bit, but I'm not all that big into spankings. I was spanked as a kid for punishment. So for some reason that's just not, like, that doesn't actually do it for me. But it would for some other

Willow:

was too, but I like

Leah:

Really? you know, so I have a sexual abuse background in my childhood, and yet there's something empowering, like this, I mean, my husband might play out this scene very soon, I confessed to him last night, I said, I want to go through a scene where like, I want you to say things like, see, you made me do it, I want to like bend over and he's examining me and he's like, I'm not going to fuck you. Don't worry about it. I'm not going to fuck you, but I am going to look at you, you know, and then he ends up touching me. See, you made me do it, you know, like blaming me for the sexual inappropriateness. Which of course could have been a theme younger, it's my fault, right? That all the bad trauma happened. But now as an adult, after also doing a lot of healing work, somatic healing work, there's something about saying, Oh yeah, it is my fault. Like now I, there's like a whole healed self that can go, Oh, I'm going to get off on this thing that I used to feel so much sadness around and now I'm going to kink out on it. It's kind of like the thing you're most afraid of. You can fetishize it a little bit and then you get rewarded. You take your power back. It's like, yeah, actually I'm totally consenting to this. I'm going to ask for it. I'm going to own it. And I'm going to delight in the fact that it's counterintuitive. And I'm gonna, and I'm gonna reward, there's like a payoff in the tension, there's a payoff in breaking the rule, there's a payoff in the naughtiness, and there's also the reward of the orgasm at the end of doing something you're sort of. afraid of. And I think that's a very liberated.

Mel & Suzi:

Yeah.

Leah:

Thought form, however, I also think you have to be very psychologically sound to dabble in some of this stuff. And that's my little concern about it. And actually it's a little bit of my concern of putting it out there as a sex educator and, and, hosting things. I'm kind of like, you got to really make sure people have their shit together.

Willow:

Yeah, I really think you have to be well healed.

Mel & Suzi:

It's like, the same as like a BDSM thing though. Everyone wants to try BDSM and then they get like spanked one time and they're like, holy shit, that's actually not okay. But then sometimes they're already into it and they don't know how to say no. So you have to kind of, you have to push your boundaries to find out what your boundaries are.

Leah:

Well, and any good BDSM organization, consent is like the number one thing. So they're safe words. There's so much communication that's always been interwoven. It's actually the thing that they do well, better than any other sexual adventure people can go on. BDSM has the best reputation for boundaries and, and knowing when you've reached a limit. And

Willow:

Boundaries. Because good Boundaries. make you feel safe. Like if you know, there's a fence out there, then you can be more wild and free and let, you know, it's a container. That's one of, one of the first things that we learned is containment.

Leah:

It's people playing around without any mentor that are gonna fuck shit up if they're just like, you know Winging it. Yeah, right, right, but I don't know we're virgins in that area.

Willow:

Oh, yeah, so I'm curious for both of you, like, what, what do you, what have you seen, like, Mel, with your generation, as far as people getting into more kinky stuff at this time in their

Leah:

it seems like your generation is cooler about it then

Willow:

like the the millennials?

Leah:

Like this is very foreign for us at 45. Yeah.

Mel & Suzi:

people are a lot kinkier than we think. Mm hmm. I think it's a lot more common. I think, uh, people go, Ooh, you know, but I think, and there are levels, um, of, of kink, aren't there? Let's be fair. Lots of people introduce basic levels of kink and they don't actually think it's kinky, like handcuffs or whatever, to the very, like, sort of extreme level. Like we, we interviewed this woman who was like, had, she was in the BDSM scene in Japan and she was tortured and stuff, so like there was levels of

Leah:

I bet we would, what's her name? Elizabeth?

Willow:

Yeah. we just interviewed her too. She was great.

Leah:

Wild story, right? Like, holy

Mel & Suzi:

Oh, yeah. She's fabulous. So from here to here. Yes. And then you look at her and you're like, huh, like, what? I mean, she's delightful and you're just like, like, huh? Yeah. But I so I dunno, I think people are a lot kinkier. I think people do keep it, um, quiet, but strangely, I, I, I think people are still very into sex. I think people think that you're 50 and something dies inside. I think for most women, actually it reignites and yeah, and and that, that could be why there are so many women with toy boys, because they're like, Oh, you know, the men are sort of going, Oh, I'm kind of going the other way. And the women are going the other way. I see a lot of that. I see a lot of very frustrated, dissatisfied women and men who sort of given up, which is kind of odd cause that's not what you think, but the women haven't, but they don't know how, how to do it, how to frame it. What, what are they going to

Willow:

They're contending with their hormones too,

Mel & Suzi:

go? And they've been in marriages for a long time and they haven't basically,

Willow:

yeah.

Mel & Suzi:

well, there's all of that, and that is just a tsunami of shit that starts with perimenopause menopause, it's horrendous. And then nobody cares. I'm going to look forward

Willow:

Yeah, get started early before perimenopause, ladies. Start ahead of time.

Mel & Suzi:

It's lovely. I mean, I'm in that now it's delightful and nobody cares. Nobody's interested. Nobody knows what it does to you. And it is a very, very confusing time for women. And at least we are starting to talk about it more, but yeah, that women are much more sexual, uh, 45 plus into their eighties, for goodness sake, than we think, and so they should be, I mean, why should they shrivel up for goodness sake.

Leah:

Here's here's a more specific question. for you. It's like I know like with my relationship It's um, we have our like favorite positions We know what guilt get each person off And so there's just times where we've gotten I don't want to say bored because we have we've got we get off great and it's wonderful and it's fun. But it's like when that, when that feeling was like, hey, do you want to have sex? I'm like, sure, you know, like I can take it or leave it, you know, versus like being really excited to co create something. And I remember what it was like, you know, that first year and we were doing tantra sessions every night and lighting all the candles. We'd start with the bath and it was like this whole thing. And there was a mirror, his his closet had a mirror and we would watch ourselves fuck. And I just, We don't have a mirror like that anymore.

Willow:

Maybe you need to get one.

Leah:

Well, I have a giant mirror, but there's no good way to set it up in the bedroom. That doesn't screw up the design of the bedroom. So I don't know if you run into like sort of the routine obstacles.

Mel & Suzi:

I mean, I think it's normal for everyone who's who's been together a long time but I mean it you have to you do really have to talk about it all the time and you have to kind of Plan it and and it sounds a bit boring and I've said this to Suzi but you do have to Prioritize sex. I'm a big believer in that like the the couples that kind of communicate and they prioritize it which sounds a bit like I've planned this But sorry, that was a kind of American accent, I didn't mean to do that.

Willow:

That's okay, we do English accents all the time. Yeah.

Mel & Suzi:

they, um, it works and you basically, it has to be a priority in your life to the extent that you're not going to do something else. I mean, not something like it's really important, like spend time with, you know, uh, you know, your children or whatever. But I mean, like. Okay. I'm not going to go and see that friend, or I'm going to stop working. You have to prioritize it. And I don't think people do at all, where they get further and further in the relationship. And it's just like, I could go to sleep to be honest with you. I got to get up at six. I've got a presentation. You have to just fight all of that. And sometimes that's the hardest thing, but you have to consciously do it because otherwise, if you're never going to get anywhere together, and that's, that's really important to, uh, to me, to my husband is like prioritizing and consciously doing it. And sometimes it, it ebbs and flows. Sometimes it, you're good at it and sometimes you're not so good at it, but you just consciously keep working at it, and then it works.

Leah:

Yeah. And I think this idea of like spontaneous sex is kind of overrated, you know, I think if people think that that's just the sex is just going to happen because want to do it.

Mel & Suzi:

It's so, it's, we had this, uh, um, psychologist on early on when we started poddng and she said, she was talking about spontaneous, it's spontaneous and responsive desire, isn't it? And she talks about responsive and she, uh, spontaneous, sorry. And should, if you think about it, when you first meet somebody like Suzi talking about the guy in the Porsche or whatever, you've got all dressed up, you've worked out your outfit, you smell good. You look good. It's like a whole, you haven't just gone, okay, I'm going out with the guy in the Porsche and a pair of track pants. You've gone through a whole, I've gotten my nails done. You've gone through a lot of preparation and you're going, you're going to the date ready, you're amped up kind of thing. So it's not really that spontaneous when you think about it. And I thought that was so interesting. Cause I'd never thought of that before. Like when you're dating, when you're like looking like on the, what's the nice way of putting it out in the hunt, like you are, she's consciously looking, um, she's dating. She's consciously, which is a normal thing to do. She'd been with somebody for eight years. She should go out there and do her thing. She should. You know, have fun. Otherwise, your life is short. But she's consciously doing it. She's consciously looking for it. You're amped up, your body, everything. I'm constantly in a form play. Your mind is, yeah, is ready for it. You're, you're dressed like you're thinking about, you know, the way you look. Well, you don't when you're further down in a relationship. Yeah, you do when you go out for a date, but it's not the same thing, is it? Date night. I'm constantly wearing crotchless panties just in case. There you go. There

Leah:

get some of those.

Mel & Suzi:

There you go.

Willow:

you should. wear them every day around the house Leah.

Leah:

I, uh

Mel & Suzi:

you never know. She never knows. When the cable guy comes and I'm like, Oops.

Willow:

part Matt's going to come forward?

Mel & Suzi:

Oh my god. You never know.

Leah:

The cable guy!

Willow:

cable guy! You guys could play that. That sounds fun. Yeah, I like what you're saying now. And I like. I like that what I'm always kind of having couples do is like do a full moon ritual and a new moon ritual like at least twice a month where you're doing a more like on the calendar intimacy date night tantra date whatever you want to call it night. Where you're spending two at least hours if not more like in intimacy together like exploring each other's bodies and finding out what you like and figuring it out together and new positions and just Just, just playing in the playground together. And I think that then really informs all the rest of the sex you have the rest of the month. like, then if you go for a quickie or you have the sort of routine position that you always go to, it's infused with this recent, more, um, conscious, you know, thing that you had on the calendar.

Leah:

Yeah, I just think like, I think life would just be so much more fun if couples in general just got passionate about having adventures when it comes to, relationships. Whether that's on intimacy or communication or sexuality or vacations, it's like looking at connection as being just a fun adventure that you never stop learning about. And it gets so easy for our jobs and our kids and stress to take over those kinds of thoughts and priorities and conversations. And yeah, I really wonder if, if the breakup rate would change. If that was really encouraged culturally.

Mel & Suzi:

I think it would. I think that's, but it's also just like, it's so hard when you've been with someone for so long. Like, you're like, how, how do you change the structure that you're, you know of, especially cause you know, you're so conscious of the other person's feelings as well. I think that was a lot of what my, what at the end of the relationship. Um, we were so conscious, I, I wanted to be so conscious of him. I'm like, no, he's working hard. I know he's working late. And so I know he doesn't want to have sex. I'm like, I'm working hard and I'm working late. So like, maybe I'll just masturbate beside him and I'll just like, make sure that I have my orgasm and he can do his in the morning. We can just like, still live our lives like this. I'm like, I'm happy, but like, we're fine. And I think that's, I think that's a lot of people's relationships. And yeah, I don't know what the solution is. I think obviously communicating more, but some, somehow being selfish in the way that you want to talk about it too. Does that make sense?

Leah:

It's like no longer being complacent,

Willow:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. like, what Mel was saying. Like you have to put the work in. you have to do. the time.

Mel & Suzi:

You do. Otherwise it just

Leah:

it's almost like I want to change the language. It's like, let's don't call it, put the Work in like what a fucking drudgery. It's like, let's put the play

Mel & Suzi:

I know. It is a horrible expression and I do say that. It's like, it sounds awful. But like, put the time in. Put

Willow:

Sometimes it is. work, though. Like, let's not sugarcoat it either, you know? Yeah. put the play in. It could be fun, it could be playful, It could be

Leah:

Yeah. Especially when you're dealing with those emotions, you know, like Suzi was saying, it's like, you know, it's a trigger, you know, there's going to be some defensiveness

Mel & Suzi:

A hundred percent. But if you talked more and you kind of brought the barriers down, the negativity, it gets easier. Like it's, the first conversation is never easy, but you have to keep going. And the assumption is you can't assume you're going to have one conversation and solve all of your problems. That's never going to happen, but you just got to start. And the more you talk, the easier it is. But I think that's the problem. People don't start. They just keep going and sweeping it under the

Leah:

You're right. twice and it doesn't go well and then they don't ask for help and do get tools. Yeah.

Willow:

Yeah, sometimes you gotta get that outside perspective as well. Coach or therapist or something.

Mel & Suzi:

Yeah, well, they, they try and achieve too much from one conversation. You can't try and solve, you know, the whole world's problems in one conversation, and that's part of it. You got to maybe start opening that door, start finding a glimmer, and then the door will keep opening, but you got to start, it's got to be a process. Right. And somebody has to start it generally in a couple, one person's

Willow:

Layer by layer.

Leah:

Well with that, I mean, so much fun. Loved hanging out with you ladies. We look forward to hanging out on your show coming up. And, um, I would just love to know, like, just from both of you, what would you like to leave our audience with? what is something, what's a little gem? What's a little piece of advice that you would like to share as a closing?

Mel & Suzi:

God, such a good question. Mel, darling, that is, um, let me start it off. Um, I mean, ladies and gents who are listening, I think sharing your orgasm with someone else is always not always, but is a more exciting thing. And when you do it openly and honestly, and you put the other person's orgasm before your own. Yeah. Then it's. It's a new experience for both of you, and, um, work on other people's orgasms.

Leah:

Yeah, yeah.

Mel & Suzi:

Be generous, be generous lovers.

Leah:

lovers

Mel & Suzi:

generous. Be generous. That's a good one. Generous. Yeah, I mean, I would, I suppose I would take it more on the relationship side. I think a lot of people are very negative and they think they're never going to find love and it's all very difficult and I think we live in doom and gloom. And it isn't, but I'm just um, there, there is love and you can have spectacular relationships. But You can't not do anything. You have to, we use the word work, you have to put the effort in. You have to move this relationship. It's not going to just go along on its own, and that's the advice I would give. Keep communicating, keep, um, trying to I, I guess you want to thrive in a relationship, right? So keep trying to do that for each other and you will get there and it won't always be fantastic and life goes in ebbs and flows.

Willow:

I love

Leah:

I love that. So be a more generous lover and if you want a thriving relationship, co create it. Don't sit on your laurels

Willow:

stop. Keep going.

Leah:

and, and put the effort

Mel & Suzi:

Exactly. Just like your orgasm. don't sit on, don't sit on your ass, make it yourself.

Leah:

Thank you. Thank you

Willow:

both so much. So you all can find these two lovely ladies over at their podcast. Tell us again where they can find you, where all the places you put your podcast

Mel & Suzi:

Yeah. so, uh, you can find Share My Truth, uh, pod on literally anywhere you get your podcasts. Um, you can also go to any of our socials,@sharingmytruthpod, uh, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube. You can check out what we look like. We are so cute. Especially Mel. Biggest MILF if I know, um, but yeah, go check us out, uh, follow us. You guys can comment on us. You guys can also go to www.sharemytruth.Com or you can actually leave us a voicemail, um, or email us with your own truths and we will reply. You can maybe be on the pod as well if you'd so like, and we can't wait to talk to you and hang out and share your truths with us. Absolutely. Yeah. We love sharing. We love to hear stories.

Leah:

Awesome. Awesome. Thank you so much for joining us and please stay tuned. The Dish is up next with Dr. Willow and Leah. Love, love, love.

Announcer:

Now, our favorite part, the dish.

Leah:

Okay, dishing it up.

Willow:

Yeah, that was so fun. Just I love to like, um, you know, just the different perspectives from the different generations. I think that's fascinating. There is a book. I don't know the name of it. I don't know anything about it. But my mom was reading it and she was like, this is so interesting. Like the way these kids are raised. And I think I was talking to another one of our Dakini friends recently. And they were just talking about like how our generation, like the end of the Gen Xers,

Leah:

hmm.

Willow:

Really got spoon fed this, like, you can do it, like fucking Nike commercial, you know, like you can do it, just do it. It's like you, that, that you can accomplish anything that you put your mind to. And, and I believe you can, I don't know if I believe that because I'm of that

Leah:

Right, right. I know I do too, because I was also, that was really drilled into

Willow:

me. Yeah. But it's like, it's fucking hard. It's hard to just do the thing that you make the dream come alive. Like that's why people don't do it. Right. Because it is hard.

Leah:

It's pretty awful when you can't. Like

Willow:

a fucking failure. Yeah. So there's also this like shadow element to it of like, you know, and if you don't, then you fucking suck.

Leah:

right, right, right, right, right, right.

Willow:

little tangent there, but just, just, it's interesting to think about, um, sexuality through the lens of, of, of the generations. I think we should definitely be having some Gen Zers. Well, we've had, um, one for sure that we, um, spoke with, I think.

Leah:

I mean technically you're a millennial.

Willow:

No, I'm not.

Leah:

Yeah, you are. I've looked up the generations now a bunch. 78 was the last year for the Gen Xers.

Willow:

Oh, so

Leah:

yeah. So, technically.

Willow:

You are right on the

Leah:

I am right on the cusp. All my sisters are Millennials.

Willow:

Well, I don't feel like a millennial.

Leah:

I feel like I'm in the middle of Gen X and Millennial, and

Willow:

too. Yeah. We're both on the cusp.

Leah:

there's, there's two, um, actual, like, Gen X is super wide. So, Matt, who was born in 1969, I'm born in 1978. We're both Gen Xers, but we have different music preferences. I mean, there's so many differences for us. Um, and really the like, there's like two sets of baby boomers too. It's all very confusing.

Willow:

not very confusing. There's a whole book on it, though, out there, people. I don't know the name of it.

Leah:

Um, I will say that that therapist I was referring to earlier in the episode, Vanessa Marin, is the sex therapist who, um, had some really good Advice, especially for more vanilla minded people, not, not big sex adventurers, but really, you know, sound stuff for everyday, everyday relationships.

Willow:

Awesome.

Leah:

And I think the most, the hardest thing for me with this episode was I was having so many technical difficulties. I had to log in, log off, and my computer died like in the middle of the episode and I had it plugged in, but, uh, yeah, it totally went dead and no one gets plugged in. Had to change plugs.

Willow:

Oh, gosh.

Leah:

I just hate it when that fucking

Willow:

We got off on a tangent on BDSM right at that point,

Leah:

right, I know.

Willow:

juicy. But then you came back on, and I mean, it was all good.

Leah:

it was all good. So everyone, please tune in to their podcast and leave them a comment on their show letting them know that you heard of their show because you heard our

Willow:

Our show. Yeah, that'd be fun.

Leah:

All right sister. We'll talk to you later. Love, love, love everyone!

Announcer:

Thanks for tuning in. This episode was hosted by Tantric Sex Master Coach and positive psychology facilitator, Leah Piper, as well as by Chinese and Functional Medicine doctor and Taoist Techology teacher, Dr. Willow Brown. Don't forget your comments, likes subscribes, and suggestions matter. Let's realize this new world together.

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Dr. Willow Brown

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Leah Piper

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Mel Krangle and Suzi Sheckter

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