The Sex Reimagined Podcast

Leah & Dr. Willow - Your Sexual Journey: From Rest to Transcendence (And Everything In Between) | #128

• Leah Piper, Dr. Willow Brown • Season 3 • Episode 128

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Hey there, sex-positive explorer! Ever notice how your relationship with sexuality feels different at different times? Sometimes you're taking a break and that's totally okay, other times you're healing and sex is cathartic. Perhaps you're diving deep into learning about your sexuality, or maybe you're exploring new territory and having a new sexual  adventure. And let’s not leave out those mind-blowing transcendent moments that remind you just how magical and spiritual sexuality can be. In this episode, Leah and Dr. Willow break down these five stages we all experience - and spoiler alert: they're not linear, and that's the coolest part!


WHAT YOU’LL DISCOVER:

  • Why the "resting stage" is completely normal and how to honor it
  • How pleasure can be your greatest healer
  • What happens when you start exploring new sexual territories
  • The power of embodied learning in your sexual journey
  • How to access transcendent states of sexual consciousness


RESOURCES MENTIONED 



AWAKENING THE GODDESS IN CRETE! Leah & Willow want to take you on an all-woman's tantric pilgrimage to Greece Oct 5-12, 2025! Join us for a trip of lifetime. Learn More at https://www.sexreimagined.com/.

AWAKEN AROUSAL OIL LUBRICANT | Reach new levels of intimacy with our arousal oil, formulated for the female body. Once applied, this topical oil works with your body to enhance sensation and "o's," helping you reach states of euphoric pleasure. Order Here

KING & QUEEN OF HEARTS. Leah & Willow's King & Queen of Hearts Intimacy Toolkit is on sale. Buy Now. 10% off Coupon: KINGANDQUEEN10.

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Announcer:

Welcome to the Sex Reimagined Podcast, where sex is shame free and pleasure forward. Let's get into the show.

Leah:

Welcome back to the show, everyone. This is Leah Piper and Dr. Willow Brown, your hosts of the Sex Reimagined podcast, and we have another LxW episode for you.

Willow:

Yeah, today we're going to be talking about the sexual stages that we all go through, no matter if we are in long term monogamous relationships, in polyamorous relationships, in single relationships with ourselves, we all go through these stages. So let's dive in.

Leah:

You know what I think is so interesting about these five stages of sexuality is that they're not linear. You could find yourself in multiple stages at once. You could go through all five stages in one day. You could be in one stage for multiple years. So let's, uh, first name the stages. First stage is a resting stage. Do you know what this stage is like, Dr. Willow?

Willow:

Oh, yes, I do. Where you're just taking a nice long rest. It doesn't have to be long, but just feeling like, you know, sexuality just isn't at the forefront of your mind. It's not at the forefront of your thoughts. It's not something that you are focused on for that period of time.

Leah:

Yeah. You know, this happens a lot when you're a caregiver, when you've had a baby and all of your Shakti sexual energy is going towards keeping these children alive, um, and thriving. It could be

Willow:

or parents, as the case may be.

Leah:

totally. When you're caregiving a

Willow:

Or a spouse.

Leah:

Definitely. It's happened to me with neither one of those experiences where I just, I just go through a period of going like I just, I can't find it. I'm not connected to my libido. I don't feel horny. I'm not interested. In fact, it could go so far as feeling annoyed by, um, other people's desire for sex around me or a partner's desire for sex. And I think what's troublesome, um, about this stage is the judgment we have for it. I know that's been true for me it's feeling like how dare I not feel sexual and I

Willow:

start to think it's wrong or there's something bad about us in the moment. Is it our libido? Is it our hormones? We start digging and looking for stuff and instead of just being in the acceptance of like, well, it's just, it's a resting period.

Leah:

Yeah, and I think actually that's been very healing for me is to realize that this is actually a natural stage of life is having a resting stage. There's actually nothing wrong with me because I don't feel horny. I doesn't mean that I am cold and frigid. It means there are other things that are a bigger priority in my life and it's okay if I don't feel connected to sex. Like there's nothing actually wrong. It's what it's been wonderful to have a stage I know for me the judgment has felt extra because of my career choice Being a sexuality expert, you know. And then being a tantrica on top of that. I've been with partners who have felt very strongly that there is something wrong that needs to be fixed if I'm not connected to my sexuality. And it was very liberating to learn about these sexuality stages and to discover the resting stage because I'll tell you what, nothing is worse for recapturing your sexuality than judging the fact that you're not connected to your sexuality.

Willow:

Well, that's very similar to a man who's struggling with ed or, you know, premature, we call it premature, you know, not having ejaculatory choice. Um, it's similar. It's like this unnecessary pressure that we put on ourselves to, to figure it out. Now, I do want to say though, like if your resting period, quote unquote, is going on for, you know, several years, there, there might be something deeper to look into. So it's, it's, it depends on what's going on in your life, of course. And then, you know, we do want to, if, if it's something deeper, you know, it's like there's trauma that needs to be addressed or there's hormones that need to be addressed or there's something else, then yes, of course, look into that. But you know, if you are postpartum, if you're a postpartum woman, your oxytocin should be going to your infant for at least a year. The postpartum period is a solid 12 months, if not 18 months. So really give yourself that, um, that time. And yeah, if you're, if you're a caretaker or if you're just, you're just in a resting period, like maybe you're just really focusing on, you know, self love and taking care of yourself in other ways. Or maybe you're just really focusing on your, your business, your career path, or maybe you're super focused on, I don't know. There's so many things to focus on in this world. Sexuality is just one.

Leah:

Yeah, and I mean, the resting stage isn't like an excuse not to be an inquiry around what's going on with your system and what do you want from your system? How do you want to tap into desire, whether that's plugging your desire into a passion project or plugging your desire into a partnership or plugging your desire into hot sex? Like you have some choice with this and, and the gift of the resting stage is not to use it to judge you or to pathologically create a story of drama around your lack of interest, but to be curious and, uh, and to be self accepting. So, um, it's not an excuse not to be curious about what's going on with you sexually, but it's an invitation to put your attention perhaps on other things that you value beyond your sexual energy. Now let's move on to another stage.

Willow:

yes. Stage number two, which isn't a number two. Again, not linear. They can happen at any time and they can come all at the same time.

Leah:

Yeah. One of, I think, the most profound stages that I've been through is the healing stage.

Willow:

Hmm. Well, we do love the healing stage here in Tantra world, don't we?

Leah:

We sure do. Yes.

Willow:

I mean, it's just profound. It brings so much magic. It's, you know, I was, um, working with a client recently and it was like he was having this big breakthrough of like, okay, there's, there's, there's healing to the point of getting out of pain, like getting out of trauma triggered response. You know, that's a one level, but the next level is actually feeling pleasure and letting pleasure be the healer. Like letting so much, oh my God, that feels amazing. That feels good. And letting yourself soak in that and steep in that and bathe in that to the point where your level of self deserving and self worth starts to shift. And I think that is a really, really profound healing that, um, that just everyone has the potential to experience and I hope everyone gets to experience. I remember the when I first started to have that, that experience of like pleasure as a healer, you know, feeling, feeling that, oh, that's so good. And it breeds this level of confidence inside of you, again, self worth and self deserving, you know,

Leah:

Yeah, I think, um, there's something just so vulnerable that cracks you open. I feel like through sexual healing, you discover an exquisiteness to vulnerability. It's still hard to do, you know, because you're just kind of opening up all your guts and, and whether you're just, it's, it's like, I'm so tender in this tenderness. Something is being like cracked open and something is, is healing up. Um, and it can feel really raw and very tender. It can feel so beautiful at it, like at its apex. Um, It can feel very cathartic. There can be lots of tears, the release of, of rage, sadness, grief, uh, despair, loneliness. But I think what people are most surprised by, and you touched on it, Willow, is that healing can also be very pleasurable. It's not always, uh, cathartic tears. Sometimes the pleasure will bring you to tears and that will feel healing, but it's pretty,

Willow:

And even all in the same moment where one moment you could be crying tears of grief and rage and like three seconds later that those same tears turn into pleasure and a rapture and bliss and, you know, the experience can be quite a smorgasbord of emotions and none of it has to have story behind it. I mean, that's one of the things that I find so intriguing, you know, when we do these Tantra teacher trainings where everyone's kind of really deep in the, in the tantric healing and transformation. And, um, is, you know, some of the people who've, who've done so many years of healing and coming into themselves and knowing their essence, they still have these incredible profound. And it just really speaks to the word Tantra itself, you know, and a tool for expansion is this ever expanding, ever evolving potential and possibility. And I was talking to a girlfriend yesterday and I was just, you know, talking about how, um, how limited most people experience sexuality, you know, it's like, this is, this is what it is. We always do it this way. And this is the one thing and, and it doesn't even have to include intercourse. Like there's some of the best sex I've ever had was no intercourse seven hours long, you know? So I think that when we start to open our, our awareness and our consciousness around, um, how sexuality can actually heal us from, from the root up, you know, from the heart chakra out, it's pretty. Pretty amazing. It's fun to see.

Leah:

Yeah, it's pretty shocking when it and, and really life changing when it starts to shift your belief system and your conditioning around who you think you are. Um, I know probably one more profound experiences for me through healing through sex, um, was the healing I had to do by myself where it did require a partner. And that was really moving beyond my belief system of self loathing, um, self hatred, a lack of self worth, really seeing myself as someone who was unlovable. I mean, I was, it was a hardcore, like, Journey. thing that I had to completely disrupt. And I don't believe it would have been possible just through therapy. I don't believe it, it certainly wasn't possible as much as I tried to do it through Oprah and Cosmopolitan Magazine tests. It

Willow:

Or other people, lover, other tantrics or

Leah:

yeah, totally. Because a partner can't love you enough for you to love yourself. And it's not an intellectual pursuit. It's something that requires an emotional physical, sexual, spiritual experience of really going in with touch and with energy and with emotion to feel yourself differently, to touch yourself with a different vibration of, of love and of asking for healing. And so for me, the journey of healing through sex really required me to take a look at what is it that I need that I don't now have, or I have covered up access to some of that was forgiveness. Forgiving myself for those times in life when I was drunk and promiscuous and having experiences that were actually really emotionally harmful. Um, and then, and then, and then there was the healing that occurred with a partner. That when you're with a partner who you feel really safe with, who you're choosing to trust. who can hold you in that tenderness, who's willing to penetrate you with their spirit, with their emotions, with their support, with their touch, with their consciousness, with their depth of presence that allows for this deep unfolding, this unfurling of negative belief systems to start to crumble so that you can have these exalted experiences of true healing, which leads to like really some of the most stupendous Pleasure that your mind can't even come up with words for. That's really the power of this stage. And sometimes we go through periods where we spend a whole year on sexual healing or longer, or we might just have one experience that felt tremendously healing. Um, maybe it's really realizing after the devastation breakup of a divorce or something, where you meet somebody new and suddenly you realize, fuck, the love. After all continues to win, you know, even when you thought it was hopeless.

Willow:

Mm hmm. Yeah. I mean, the, the sexual healings as a, as a long time healer, you know, my, my work always. tends to have some element of that. And I think no matter what stage you're in, there's always some element of healing going on, you know, whether you're in that resting or you're in that adventure stage or that more deeper healing stage, there's it's, it's an experience of becoming more whole and so that is, that is the healing that.

Leah:

Yeah, that's, that's an, that's an interesting point. Well, let's move on to another stage.

Willow:

Let's talk about the adventure stage you're definitely in it and I definitely have been enjoying it myself.

Leah:

Yes. The adventure stage is when you are trying things that you, maybe you didn't even know was possible, so it's brand new to you, or maybe you had judgments about it at one time, and now you're discovering some curiosity that's very surprising.

Willow:

It is fun. Here's what I notice about it as a little scientist of sexuality. It's like, I don't necessarily get super aroused, I just get really interested. For me, it's more of this like, um, Oh, wow. Oh, look at that. Oh my goodness. That feels interesting. You know, it's just more of this, um, I don't know, data collection that's happening in my mind and my experience. I was recently in Hawaii with some tantric friends, and I had eight sexual firsts in, I think, four days. And, you know, I really, like, my arousal scale probably peaked to an eight or a nine one time those whole four days. Yeah.

Leah:

I think what's important is that we also create a distinction because sometimes adventure stages look like learning stages, but they're actually different. Um, and we'll talk about the learning stage next, but as we stay focused on the adventure stage, it's really like, I feel like there's a risk to it that's different than when you're learning something new. You might be on an adventure, but it's kind of like, It has a little more spark than learning has it's like a look at how brave I am. Wow, look at the leaps and bounds I'm taking. So sometimes you know for people I would watch people all the time at the seminars the Tantra weekends, they were on a fucking adventure, you know, like this was so like out of the box and you didn't know really what you were getting yourself into. But suddenly you were, you were showing up to this new thing and you try this new thing on and like it, it pays it back in dividends to you. Like the risk of, of separating the role of giver and receiver and finding out like, wow, there's so much about receiving I didn't understand until now. Or wow, I got to give my gifts and someone really took them in and I can't believe how amazing that feels to me. Um, an example, and you and I certainly have been taking some new adventures on since starting the podcast. Um, in particular, exploring kink and BDSM as we've been positively influenced by some experts who've been on the show to go, well, what does, what does, what could this possibly mean for me? Um, and it's been quite a ride.

Willow:

It's been quite a ride, and I feel like part of adventuring is Even just looking into something different, like, you know, reading about it or listening to a podcast about or, or anything just like just getting it into your consciousness to begin with, that's going to be the first stage of like getting into some kind of adventure and you may never go past it. to that. You could keep it in your mind forevermore and have the same old style of sex you've always had, but it will make your old style of sex way more fun, I promise.

Leah:

yes. I mean, for instance.

Willow:

what, what we always say is this is the most important sexual organ right between your ears. And so opening up your mind, and that's what I've really seen you do, Leah, is just like, you know, open up your mind and your consciousness to what is erotic. And what does turn you on and what else is possible and half the shit, maybe more than half the shit you read about or listen to, you'll never play out. And then some of it you do and you new things about yourself. I'm curious about your arousal scale when you're in these adventure stages.

Leah:

Well, let me, let me circle back to that because I want to, I wanted to make points before I forget them. One is sometimes an adventure is just the adventure in your mind. Right? It's like you go on an adventure with a piece of erotica. Like, I'm reading this piece of erotica right now. Um, oh my god, it's going to the next level! And I'm just like, holy shit! Like, oh! So it's giving me this adventure of going, Oh, that's what that thing might be like. And I would have never considered, again, something that was like, wouldn't be in the lexicon of reality, but I'm experiencing it through reading, and my mind is being opened, and what a delightful adventure to be on. The other thing is, um, I remember the first, uh, sex party I went to. We called them lovins back in the day. And they're, they, yeah, they're really like, really not my scene. I actually feel pretty shy in those environments where a lot of people are having sex or indiscriminately just having sex with each other. I, I'm not sure that that's actually something that opens me. My experience so far is that it closes me more than it opens me. But those were a fucking adventure. And I know, like, some people will go to, like, a swinger event, right? And they may never go to another one. But goddammit, that was an adventure.

Willow:

Yeah.

Leah:

And you end up finding out things about yourself. Like, for me, not sure that they're for me. Might still it a try someday, but I might never will. I can't say that. I got the bug just because I tried it once or twice.

Willow:

Right.

Leah:

And so it's good to go on adventures to find out if something's for you or not.

Willow:

Okay. Back to my question about your Okay, my arousal scale.

Leah:

Yes. Okay, so here's what I find very fascinating about arousal scales. When I first started taking a look at my arousal, and when we say arousal scale, everybody, think about an arousal scale from one through ten. One is, I'm feeling kind of in the mood. Ten is, whoa, I just had an orgasm. Our arousal kind of floats in between these 1 through 10, then the 1 through 10 get even more interesting when you realize that every number on the arousal scale also has a 1 through 10. So, I might be at a 2. 5 and then I might flow up to a 3. 3 and then suddenly I might go jump all the way to a 7. 1. What I've come to see is that every year or every couple of years, my arousal skill actually blossoms, it actually expands. So, like two years ago, what was a 7. 5 for me, now is a 5. 5. Which means I've hit new heights of 7. 5, which means I've hit new heights of an 8. 8. I've hit new heights of what 10 actually is. My arousal scale range has expanded. It's threshold is stretched out just like delicious taffy or caramel sauce, whatever, whatever floats your sweet

Willow:

Caramel sauce doesn't stretch quite that way.

Leah:

Well, it doesn't hold it's shape, but it definitely dribbles. Um, so it's been a while since I've had a big like bump in my arousal stretching. It stayed pretty consistent in the last two years. Yeah, so What do you attribute that to? That's I don't know that I attribute it to anything. I'm, it's just out of, it doesn't need to expand every year. It doesn't have to keep on getting bigger and bigger. So right now it's just, it's at a delicious place and I have no judgment.

Willow:

Yeah. God bless. All right. Let's talk about the

Leah:

How about you? Do want to, do you want to reflect a little on what's changing with your, or not changing regarding your arousal skill?

Willow:

Oh, let's see. Yeah, I mean, definitely it's stretching like delicious taffy, although I hate taffy.

Leah:

I know, taffy's actually not that,great..

Willow:

But the arousal scale stretching is delicious. So, um, yeah, definitely I can ride the higher you know, levels much, much longer. My orgasms are longer, fuller. Um, there's more time within them to be. I love sex magic. So pretty much every single sexual encounter I have has a sex magic element to it. So during those long extended orgasms, I, um, you know, I think about that thing. I think about that thing that I'm calling in and what it feels like to have it in my life. And I just steep in the emotion of that, as I'm in that expanded state of awareness, and I've been able to kind of go far beyond the physical body and just experience that uh, galactic outer space. You know, real energetic place. And, um, yeah, Well, hold on, of how I experience. I was going to say hold on to your horses with that one because that is a good description of a transcendent stage, which is going be our number five. We haven't gotten there yet. We haven't gotten there. So that's preview to come. Yes. But, but I will say as far as like stretching out your arousal skill, it doesn't always have to be in the physical body. Sometimes it can be spiritual. It can be energetic. So that's what I'll say about that.

Leah:

Cool. Um, so then let's hop over to learning, uh, because another real favorite of mine.

Willow:

I'm such a learning dork. We both are.

Leah:

We are, we're total sex geeks and, um, proud to be so. Um, I think it's one of the funnest places to, to nerd out is to discover all things, you know, sexually pleasurable, but also profound and interesting. So to learn something new, I don't know, I don't know that there's anything better. I mean, I guess there's some transcendent moments that might trump learning, but, um, You know, I just went to my first, uh, dark odyssey conference.

Willow:

Yeah? How was that? Tell us.

Leah:

Which is a BDSM conference. Um, and it was really fascinating. I learned so much in these couple of classes. I look forward to going to another conference because of the classes, the classes were really rich. I don't think the classes are for everybody. I've thought about doing an episode on what I learned, but people are going to have to really convince me that they want to hear about this type of sexuality on our show. Um. Because it might scare the children. We want to scare people. Um, but I'll tell you, one of them was on the art of fisting and, um, people, uh, some people really desire to be vaginally fisted. They like the fullness. They like the stretch. Um, other people actually really enjoy and find incredible transcendent experiences through anal fisting. Um, and that may be a brand new concept to some of our listeners. I won't go deep into it except for to say, Wow, I really got to learn not only the techniques, the skill, but the reason why one might actually crave that kind of fullness, that kind of penetration and the range of intensity that that can provide, even just stillness to really vigorous. Movement and I was so well taught by a fabulous educator. In fact, I'll give her a plug They I will give them a plug Jamie joy and create an incredible sex educator from the East Coast that travels all over the country illuminating various sex opportunities that people may not know even exist and I'll tell you I was actually deeply touched and I went to three of her, uh, two other of her classes because I was so impressed with her as an educator.

Willow:

I love that. That's great. Jamie Joy, we got to have her on the podcast.

Leah:

We gotta have her on the podcast.

Willow:

Got to have them on the podcast. our pronouns right.

Leah:

Let's get our pronouns straight.

Willow:

Um, you know, I have seen, I have witnessed Um, men in particular have some of the most profound spiritual experiences of their life through anal fisting. And the first time I experienced it as a

Leah:

Let, this feels like a transcendent story, so let's change the, you do, you keep on mixing

Willow:

just, I like to live there.

Leah:

I think your favorite realm is transcendent for sure.

Willow:

Most definitely. Okay, okay.

Leah:

Um, so tell us, um, one of your

Willow:

Learning. Back to learning. So, you know, one of my favorite things about learning is watching people learn. I love Seeing people get it for the first time, or like, you know, finally like viscerally understand something. That's so beautiful and to me, like that makes me feel like I am doing exactly what I need to be doing in the world when I, when I get to witness that. So, so more of that please, um, and as far as learning, like learning new things. I mean, learning new stuff in the sexuality world, I guess I could, I, I'm trying to think about something that I've recently, even though I've had new experiences, there's a learning there, but it doesn't feel like I really had to learn anything. You know, it was just like, maybe it was more of a learning in my body, like a learning of a physical sensation. Um,

Leah:

I'm glad you brought that up because there is a very special type of learning that comes through sexuality that's about embodied learning. It's an embodiment teaching. And I think that's why many of us are so curious about things like Tantra and Taoism. And then things like kink and BDSM is because it teaches you something so powerful from your body. This embodied knowledge becomes so integrated. Um, you internalize it to a degree that it becomes a part of you. And then, and then it changes how you live in the world. And that's something that's really, I think, special. And why those of us who get the hook are get so passionate about it.

Willow:

Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, as far as like the more cognitive learning that can be a part of this journey and process as well, um, I think that there are probably some new territories for me to step into learning. However, I feel so full at the moment, you know, it'll come in time. That's one of the things about learning is like sometimes you get really excited, like I'm going to learn all this stuff. I'm going to go study Tantra. I'm going to go study Taoism. I'm going to go study BDSM and kink, you know, or whatever you want to go study. And you get really excited about the learning process. And I think it's important to know when you're saturated with learning and it's time to just integrate that. Then you're shifting over to that more physical learning, you know, to, to be able to really own that knowledge in your body. Um, so keeping your finger on the pulse of that as you are learning.

Leah:

Yeah, I think some of my favorite learning processes through this work has been the psychology of this work has always fascinated me. It's actually really what opened the door to the Kink and BDSM thing is to understand why people are

Willow:

The psychology is

Leah:

Psychology. Um, the other thing that was really riveting to me from a learning stage is the energetics. Which I really struggled with in the beginning because I was watching all these people like get all excited about the energetics and I couldn't feel it. I could see the energy. I didn't know what the fuck people were saying. I believed they believed they knew what they were saying and were having energetic experiences, but it took me a minute to figure out how the energy worked for me. It took me a minute to pick up how to see it when it looked invisible for so long.

Willow:

That's what you a great teacher for people who don't automatically get energy. Because for me, it was always just, of course, feel the energy. Yeah, so it's, it's so helpful. And I think that's one of the cool things about teaching this stuff. And, you know, is there so many different, there's so many different types of people out there exploring. And, um, you know, you're going to get certain things from different teachers based on their path and their journey and what they had to go through to understand and to embody energetics or whatever it is. So I think that's why it's important to kind of, you know, be, be Polly when you're, when you're in this learning stage and really, you know, learn from different people. Yeah. So the One thing I will say that I do want to learn, it is on my radar, is I want to study with, um, the Light Dark Institute and get more into the darkotypes, um, that they have sort of coined. Uh, cause I think that stuff is really powerful. I've dabbled in it a bit and you know, how to have a good friend who, who kind of runs those events and workshops. And so I've done some stuff with him and it's every time it's really, I can see the power and the profundity in it. And I feel like. If I had a better grasp on it and a better embodiment of it, like my teaching of it, my delivery of it would be really digestible for my people, you know, for the people who come to me.

Leah:

Sure, I'm really actually excited I just signed up for a course on dark eros that is looking at jungian, through the Jungian archetypes and through the subconscious of taking a look at sort of where these kinkier fascinations, like how they take root and how to explore them and it's an online course. I'm excited starts on the 22nd

Willow:

Oh, cool. That sounds fun. I'm

Leah:

sure we'll talk more about that, Yes, let's move it along.

Willow:

Oh, yes, I'm ready, transcendence!

Leah:

it's probably one of the most unique and one that most people don't know about and dunno the path of reaching it. Um and...

Willow:

it can be, um, it can be one of those things that seems so far out of reach, So far out of reach, but like all you have to do sometimes is turn a little dial and there it is. Um, a lot of Practices support it, you know, so, uh, breath practices, define. movement practices

Leah:

How would you define it at the transcendent stage?

Willow:

Define... I would say that the transcendit stage it takes The transcendent stage takes you out of the normal state of consciousness and opens you up to the infinite, to the infinite the place where duality doesn't exist and all things are possible.

Leah:

it's very mystical in nature. Some might say sacred or spiritual in nature. There's a phenomenon to it. It has a sensation of sort of Almost unworldliness. It's like, wow.

Willow:

anymore, and it's not even 5D. It's beyond Ds.

Leah:

It's magic. You're, it's like, it really gives you an experience of awe. Like, wow, we just flew.

Willow:

And you just want to keep, you want to stay You to go back and you want to stay there. I mean, that's what I love about it so much is it, it makes all the bullshit of human bullshitness like just fade away, you know, like nothing really matters when you're, when you're in that place of infinite possibilities.

Leah:

and so there are things you were starting to talk about, like how people lead them, the practices that people do so that they can experience those states of consciousness that feel so unique and special, like breathing and meditating and

Willow:

I find Qigong to really Yeah,

Leah:

I also think that these profound transcendent states can happen spontaneously. Sometimes it's like the right ingredients of spirit and timing and people come together and you end up finding these galactic realms. Also drugs. Um, some of my most incredible transcendent have been under the influence of some really incredible magical drugs, psychedelics particular, and those, uh, shouldn't be dismissed. In Yes, you can them on the natch, you know, the natural, Yeah, the natch. the natch.

Willow:

Well, I just I love that you just brought that point forward of like that these things can happen spontaneously and You know, that those spontaneous moments of that transcendent sensual and sexual bliss are, uh, what a gift, what an incredible gift and, um, something that I think, you know, when you do have them can be continued to be cultivated thereafter. It's like, you know, you, you suddenly transcend to experience this higher state of consciousness. You don't want to just kind of go back to the old way, like utilize that, that step up to continue on that path and open that up. And I've had, you know, early on in my healing career, I kept having, this was long before I got into Taoist teaching, you know, teaching Taoist sexology or Tantra or anything. And, um, I kept having clients coming to me who were having kundalini awakening experiences long before their systems were able to handle it. Like they didn't have the energetic or the physical capacity to handle this big thing that was opening up inside of them. And, um, it, it can make you feel crazy. It can make you feel like, you know, like you're off your rocker. But at the same time, you're seeing this truth that you absolutely know without a shadow of a doubt is true. And so, um, those clients way back then, I wasn't super equipped to, guide them in the way that I would be now. However, what I would kind of lead them and guide them to is really like to drop into the experience they were having of this big Kundalini awakening and to try and to breathe into it so that they could increase their body's edges to hold the experience more. And just that one simple practice often was, um, was very helpful for them. So I think the breath is the most important thing because the breath, it connects us to spirituality and physicality, you know, it's that connecting piece between inspiration and, you know, physicality.

Leah:

The breath also moves the sexual energy from location to location. So when you're really connected to the breath, it's what's actually going to balloon and expand the sensation that you would normally feel in your genitals and move it up higher. It's what's going to like take it to other parts of your body. It's what's going to like supercharge your brain to then help you feel. feel it more intensely in your genitals. And like when you really start to know how to run the energy, then you can start to feel that there's something even bigger than your body at play. There's like the spirit realm that you start to feel like the breath connects you to. So now you're making love to the spirit world because way you're breathing and it just kind of, it's an oscillator between you and the universe. It's very interesting, this breath.

Willow:

Yes. You know, it's bringing me back to being in the, in the Joe Dispenza meditation hall with like 2000 other people and doing all the deep breath work and sitting in the, the meditation and really just feeling the aliveness of that central column and feeling the energy move up. And at that point on, on my journey, I had a lot of tantric experiences. So my chakras were feeling very open. And I just remember like having these like moments in each chakra of like orgasmic breakthrough, like one by one and different meditations as the, as the week went on. And, um, you know, the, the solar plexus chakra was the one that like really took a long time to have that, that uh, orgasmic breakthrough and I just sat in like actual so much discomfort and so much like nausea and just this feeling of like, I just need to vomit to get this out, you know? And, and, and then, so it was like this energetic thing that was causing this physical reaction and it was reaching this head and reaching this boiling point. And then finally, like I just opened my throat and you know, I was one of those screamers in the, in the meditation hall.

Leah:

I'm sure everyone appreciated that.

Willow:

I hope I hope I hope, I,

Leah:

I hope it was an invitation for them to get into SOMA too. Um, so I interrupted you earlier when I said to save a story for the transcendent, um, chapter. You want to talk anal fisting.

Willow:

Now Let's see we remember story was...

Leah:

talk about anal fisting if I wasn't mistaken.

Willow:

Oh yes.

Leah:

Which talk about, talk about transcendent and profound.

Willow:

Yeah.

Leah:

So most don't know that fisting actually can lead to some very transcendent experiences because of the intensity and the amount of surrender that one chooses to walk themselves through in order to receive and expand to that kind of capacity.

Willow:

Well, and I think that's exactly what it is for, especially for penis owners is that, um, that deep surrender. Because, you know, hopefully if they're being fisted, they're used to being penetrated at that point in their sexual journey. But a lot of, uh, we don't grow up, men don't grow up, you know, learning to surrender, to be penetrated, to receive. And one thing that I've really, um, experienced with men who have had, you know, frequent penetration and, and understand the, the profundity of that is they then penetrate very differently than men who don't. Because they understand the, the, the depth and the, you know, the gentleness and the, the word I'm looking for.

Leah:

Attunement, Sensitivity.

Willow:

And the attunement, like the presence that it requires, you know, to really enter into another person's body with so much reverence.

Leah:

Yup, there really, there is something about when you're not used to being penetrated and you discover it for the first time, um, it changes the way you end up penetrating others forevermore. Think when we're just talking about, like, anal capacity in particular, uh, an area that is frequently very tight, um, there's a lot of taboo around it. So it does require a level of sensitivity that we take for granted when we think about vaginal penetration. And whether you are, whether you have a, um, female identifying body or a male identifying body, we all have an asshole. can all technically be fisted or be penetrated with bigger objects. You know, that could be three fingers. Um, that could be two fingers. It's, it's, size doesn't always matter, but it does seem to me that when our, a capacity gets stretched and we're able to receive something that's larger than what we would maybe be comfortable with. And when that is done well, if something scrambles the brain, it does feel like a real interrupter to a certain visceral belief, and we may not even know the names or the story of that belief system, but something gets scrambled, something gets disrupted, and usually for the better. Um, and we're not suggesting, all right, everybody go get fisted now. Um, but Mm I am touched. I guess the message that I want to share around this, this, when I see people stretch their capacity, when I'm bear witness to that, I am deeply touched. I feel like it is a spiritual experience. It does feel. At the sacred to me, even if it's filthy, nasty, kind beautiful side of sex, or whether it is the intended spiritual side of sex, the beauty side of sex, whatever the, the environment is, it transcends to me, it goes someplace into the world of human potential that kind of takes my breath away. And, and I very surprised that that is the outcome of every experience I've ever been invited to where capacity gets stretched. Um, I am rewarded with it, it has not missed the boat once.

Willow:

Yeah. It's because there's this deep vulnerability that you're witnessing, right? You're witnessing someone go to a place that they've never gone to before.

Leah:

Or they have, it doesn't mean that's it's brand new.

Willow:

Or they have, or they could, but not in that moment. It's still like, it's, they're, they're...

Leah:

it's moment, everything, every moment is new. But I guess to me, just comes back to like, wow, human potential is it's vast. It's epic.

Willow:

It's amazing. We humans, we are so impressive when we open ourselves up to stretching?

Leah:

Stretching our capacity. I do want to say though, before we close the episode, cause we do have to get ready for another interview, is this thing about being in multiple stages at the same time, and then intentionality regarding these stages. So let's review them real quick. We have a resting stage, we have healing stages. We have adventure stages, learning stages, and transcendent stages, and we can be in multiple stages at time. I notice that my adventure stages and my learning stages go together, and oftentimes, as a result, I find myself in a healing stage or a transcendent stage. Um, My resting stages tend to be solo, um, and I also, I've noticed to stop rushing my resting stages but to actually honor them and see them as something that is sacred and that has, has meaning and purpose and to look for the meaning and purpose in my resting stages to keep me out of judgment and, um, Yeah, so I think that feels important to share. I'd like to get your take on that, and then I'd also like to say that we can be intentional about our stages. We can, we can, we can be in a stage and then look forward to the next.

Willow:

Yeah. a lot of the stages will definitely blend together. I think, yeah, you just be present to what is and, and be, uh, compassionate with yourself and compassionate with others when you're witnessing them going through maybe a transcendent stage because sometimes after those big, big openings, there's a, a vulnerability hangover, know, the next where they're like, ah, fuck, what did I do? What did I say? who was that? just sort of

Leah:

There's always a religiosity to it that I on people's It's like, okay, born again Tantrica, settle fucking down, we're psychohearing sex God, you know? Um, ha ha ha

Willow:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's just, I think that that compassion for, for yourself and others is really important as you, um, as you play with these different stages. Yeah. Especially in that resting stage.

Leah:

Yeah, and the healing stage two, like I remember being like, when am I ever going to get out of here? Like, I feel like I've been healing the same fucking issue for eight goddamn years and I'm sick of like crying about it. I Yeah. Yeah. And then that's where we have to sign to go. We have to remind ourselves that's right. We have to bring pleasure back to healing. It's not all healing. Is it always about feeling our suffering? We can also heal without the suffering.

Willow:

Transcendence can be so fucking healing darling.

Leah:

Yeah, Yeah. yes. then also I think we have to watch, we can, we can overlong, like if we haven't had one of those mystical stages for a long time, again we have to catch our judgment. And return back to curiosity. And we have to use curiosity to become intentional about where we want to move to next. So I've been in a, in a big, um, adventure stage and I'm still pursuing the healing stage, but I feel like I'm moving out of the adventure a little bit. I'm feeling less inclined, like last year was a big adventure. And I'm ready for something a little more gentle.

Willow:

Well, we are now in the yin year of the wood snake. So it should be a little more gentle, even if it's still a little bit adventurous, because I know you've got some adventures on your horizone. Always, always,

Leah:

I hope. Um, but, uh, so think about everybody. We really want to hear from you. This is your chance for you to tell us, A, we want to know what stage are you in? And we want to know what and then what stage are you looking forward to? What are you wanting to cultivate? And, um, and if we can support you on that journey, we're always happy to pick up the phone and give you a free consultation. Um, Willow and I both have links, if you look at the show notes in YouTube in particular, there's always a link for you to schedule a free, uh, consultation with us. And, and we're happy to, to sit there and support you.

Willow:

Absolutely.

Leah:

Okay.

Willow:

Sending you all tons of love in your sexual stages and, uh, let us know what you think about this episode in the comments below and we'll

Leah:

All right, catch on the flip side. Love, love, love.

Announcer:

Thanks for tuning in. This episode was hosted by Tantric Sex Master Coach and Positive Psychology Facilitator Leah Piper, as well as by Chinese and Functional Medicine Doctor and Taoist Sexology Teacher Dr. Willow Brown. Don't forget, your comments, likes, subscribes, and suggestions matter. Let's realize this new world together.

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Dr. Willow Brown

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Leah Piper

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