The Sex Reimagined Podcast

Leah & Dr. Willow: Kicked Out of a Wedding in Italy When Sexual Energy Goes Wrong… | #120

• Leah Piper and Dr. Willow Brown • Season 3 • Episode 120

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Have you ever felt judged for embracing your sexuality? In this vulnerable New Year's episode of Sex Reimagined, hosts Leah Piper and Dr. Willow Brown share their personal journeys of sexual awakening and the unexpected price they paid in close friendships.


💎 KEY TAKEAWAYS:

  • Sexual awakening can trigger unexpected reactions in friendships
  • The importance of attuning to others' comfort levels
  • Finding balance between authenticity and sensitivity
  • Healing through forgiveness and understanding


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Announcer:

Welcome to the Sex Reimagined Podcast, where sex is shame free and pleasure forward. Let's get into the show.

Leah:

Oh my gosh, 2025, you are here. And today I'm with Dr. Willa Brown. And of course it's me, Leah Piper. And we're here to talk about the new year. What's ahead. What are we looking forward to? And also to reflect on the past. What have we learned and how can we take what we've learned into the future?

Willow:

Such a rich conversation because I think the last few years post COVID, two to three years, a lot of people have been going through so much big transformation and transition and metamorphosis, both inside of themselves and outside in their, in their lives. So I know I certainly have. And um, I know so many have, and it's just been, you know, a bit of, 2024 was the year of the dragon. So I felt a little bit like I was just like hanging on to the end of the dragon tail, just getting whipped around most of the year. And then at one point I was like, I'm going to climb up to the top of the dragon's head and command this fucker. And so that was, you know, a shift in perspective that allowed me to kind of like, take a little bit more. Uh, charge of the, of the rains, more command of the sitch. And, you know, we're heading next into, we don't have the Chinese new year until after the first full moon of the year. So that's usually, um, in February that we have that, uh, Chinese new year transition into the year of the wood snake, which I think is going to be, a a transformational, a shifty kind of year, but less, uh, Dragonesque, you know, less turbulent and a little bit more grounded like snakes on the ground, but we're still going to be shedding some skin and stepping into, you know, who we're becoming.

Leah:

Well, I really relate to that dragon metaphor. I feel like 2024, that's very similar. I felt like the first half I was just being swung around and trying to get clear and opportunities were percolating and I was saying yes to them and, uh, and then it was like, When I said yes, I got to climb up towards the back and reach higher and higher until I could like really ride behind that dragon's head and be a part of, you know, cruising together versus just swinging in the wind.

Willow:

I mean, and interestingly, they're both wood years. is related to sole purpose and visions. Like, you know, think about a tree and a tree is, you know, it knows where it stands. It's got, it's rooted deep into the ground. It's, it's not going anywhere. So it's got that sort of like conviction and sole purpose to it. And then it's reaching up high toward the light and toward the branches. And so it's, um, These two years in particular, I think are really teaching us like how to surrender, how to let go, like how to swing in the wind when it's time to swing in the wind and how to shift our perspective and right, you know, climb up and take command when we need to. And then also to really, we'll see what 2025 brings, but I think it's going to be a lot about like stepping into, um, a new version of ourselves.

Leah:

Yeah,

Willow:

I know you definitely, Leah, have been this last half of 2024 really stepping into a new version of yourself with the, um, with the BDSM training that you did, six trips to New York and doing that deep training with Omrapani and, um, And Lauren Harkness. Yeah. And I think that, you know, I did a touch on some of that training as well. And so both of us stepping into, um, a new realm of sexuality, but still maintaining our, our, our deep connection to the sacred and the, you know, the, the, the beauty, the beautification, as you like to say, of sexuality.

Leah:

Tantra in particular, yeah. Yeah, I feel like I got to explore more of my own psyche through that, and explore some of the, my own corners of my subconscious around turn on, and got to stand for other people as they were navigating their own process with kink and BDSM. Mm hmm. So, I think there's a future for me to continue deepening and seeing what can be offered as I blend the two worlds together. It's almost like it just opened more curiosity and in an interesting way, it also brought me back to my roots. It helped me actually turn towards my tantric foundation in a deeper way and in a more committed way. I think there's at times when you've been doing the same thing for decades, it wears off the shiny parts, you know, and yeah. So that's what was starting to happen for me. And I got to get some of the shiny back and now I get to blend more modalities. And so I think the big takeaway for me in 2024 regarding that exploration is I'm more committed to the work that I've been doing for 20 years. And during COVID, it was like I set all that down and I was really got into a place of lack of clarity of when what the fuck do I want to do? Is this what I still want to do? I mean, remember all the phone calls we had on our mastermind

Willow:

I remember.

Leah:

even know this is my path anymore. So to have that be

Willow:

guys, for a second, Leah was considering going into corporate coaching. Yeah,

Leah:

you know, it was from the bedroom to the boardroom, I was ready to, uh, take it on.

Willow:

That's right.

Leah:

yeah, glad, glad I didn't go in that direction.

Willow:

Yeah, me too. We all are. Um, yeah, I'm really excited to see how you and I get to kind of, uh, fold in the, the training that you did and the little bit that I did and, and the experiences that we've had so far into, um, our work with women in particular, because we've got a really amazing, um, Um, Greece retreat

Leah:

yeah,

Willow:

for women. Yes.

Leah:

excited, we just

Willow:

excited. Yes. So come to Crete with us ladies, because we're going to be really exploring the different archetypes of the goddess. And there are, you know, archetypes of beauty and, and lustiness and sexuality, and there's archetypes of the mother and there's archetypes of the, you know, the raging bitch and the jealous one. And, and there's archetypes of, you know, of the, of the celestial one, like the spiritual, the, the high priestess one. So, so we're really going to be diving into that. And I think bringing in these sort of like, um, what I've been looking at more as the darkotypes, like the, the dark light Institute has these sort of darkotypes. So I've been kind of looking at and playing with those a little bit in this more kink Side of things and bringing that into those, you know, different archetypes of the goddess. I think is gonna be a lot of fun and it's gonna help women in particular who You know might be stuck in the good girl or might be stuck in the this is the way that you know I should be a woman, or I should be enjoying sex. And, you know, you and I were heading through, we're going through perimenopause, you know, we're at the beginning of it. But so many women who are coming to me for coaching and girlfriends and stuff, they're at that same juncture in life. And it's, it's, um, You know, who, who am I like this big shedding of the old skin is happening, you know, we're, we're becoming the next version of ourselves. I mean, women really, because of the womb and what we go through the transitions and the transformations in life, we get to really reinvent ourselves several times in

Leah:

several times in a lifetime. I feel like it's like every decade is a new chapter and then, and then there's another chapter within that. It's like, you know, at the fifth year mark or something, there's a renewal of a refocusing, a re clarifying of what's important to me. And what do I want to experience? Because we have this life to experience. Everything we can, and it goes by really fast. And I think too what's really, uh, powerful about this journey we're going to take people on, it's, it's in some of that shadow work, it's in taking a look at your subconscious and where you deny or you suppress desires. That, you know, maybe, maybe your modern woman gets in the way of your good girl. Maybe what you want to explore is the good girl. You know, that part that you always deny because you don't socially accept always being a good girl. And so maybe you need to like feel into what that submissive part of you is. And maybe you really shine and thrive with a little bit of good girl energy. And maybe you want to explore some of your deeper, darker desires. Desires you don't even know you have that are ready to be unearthed so that you can capitalize on a greater opening, a greater transformation, greater pleasure. I mean, we leave so much pleasure on the table because we don't give ourselves permission to own it, to feel it, to see it, to touch it, to recognize it, and to accept it. And this is something we get to dive in deep with.

Willow:

Yeah. I think that there's also a fear of it. You know, it's like what this, um, power that we have through our sexuality, when it's really being embodied and really alive and really awakened, like, That, you know, it's so powerful. It can hurt other people, which has been part of my experience over the last few years, you know, from, um, so there's been, you know, I I've been in service to women, like my whole career basically. And it's just been so interesting to, to watch the feminine wound really come up to the surface, like the, the collective feminine wound, you know, the age old eons old feminine wound coming up to the surface. Through, um, my deepening of my connection and my relationship to my own sexuality.

Leah:

Is that where you think jealousy and envy play a part? Is that what you refer to when you're referring to that deep feminine wound? Or is it something different?

Willow:

Yeah, definitely. Those two emotions are a part of the playing field for sure. And then I think there's also another level of, um, you know, Well, you know, in, in days of old, it was like, in order to survive, you had to procure the husband who could, you know, who could provide for you. So there was, there was always like women being pitted against each other in order to, you know, get the, get the right man, get the right survival and safety in place. And we're no longer living in that kind of Age and that kind of scenario. However, there's still, um, I think a lot of competition, a lot of comparing mind going on. Um, certainly social media is not helping us in that arena very much because we, we look on there and we just start to like, Oh, they have, but I don't have. And so we're kind of constantly always having this underlying low grade or sometimes not so low grade, but this experience of lack, you know, this experience of.

Leah:

imperative in all of this. So there's a biological imperative to belong. And there's a biological imperative to procreate. And so those two things are connected to our survival. So then all the other things are just going to be naturally occurring as we're sorting out our place in the world, our place in community, and our place with a partner, our place in a family, you know, all of those things can create obstacles and conflicts and how we resolve them. And it was interesting, cause you and I were talking about the other day, when Well, you were speaking more to when you sort of stepped out with your Tantra shingle on the outside. I've arrived. I'm owning this. I'm taking this on as a mission. And, and in listening to you, I was reflecting on when I did that, you know, and the trouble I got in the friends I lost, you know, like the people who were like, Oh, hell no. And it felt like that scarlet letter of I'm, um, I'm coming out loud. I'm claiming my sexuality. I'm, I'm allowing this to be worn on the outside and the repercussions that came and, and all everything that led to that awakening and all the ways I turned myself into a pretzel. You know, I think about coming of age

Willow:

A pretzel before then, before.

Leah:

Yes. And then having to recalibrate after I came out, after feeling really wounded by not being accepted by, you know, having a couple really important friendships dissolve and being really confused and heartbroken over it. Because I thought I was like, I'm finally being authentic. What do you mean? You don't love me anymore.

Willow:

Right, right, yeah, exactly. I lost two of my best friends, and one was male and one was female, and Both were due to my, um, just being really open and really, I, I didn't really do anything overtly sexual at all, but, um, you know, just with my energy and just talking about sexuality very freely and just, you know, Just, you know, talking to the wrong people at the wrong time and just really pushing people's buttons and, you know, in one instance with, with my girlfriend, I was actually here on Maui. So I'm on, uh, on Maui y'all right now in Aloha land and it's so auspicious to be here two years later because this is kind of when it all began and I was here in the winter in December and living here and, um, One of my best friends was here as well. And, you know, she had her, her guy visiting and, um, we were all just hanging out really. And we just started talking and, um, you know, sexuality came up as it does. And so we were all just talking about that. There was four of us actually. And, you know, one of us was a gay male. And so, you know, I was kind of really bantering quite a lot with him. And, um, and then one thing led to another and, you know, somehow we all ended up rolling around on the grass except for her. And in the moment I knew I was like, this is not okay. This is not okay with her. This is time to get up, time to shift, time to like move the energy, you know? And, um, we were just like, but you know looking at the stars, listening to music is Maui what are you gonna do? It's one of those sensual places on the planet you know, so we were just enjoying it. And um, and even though in my mind I knew what, that it was not okay for her, for her I continued to do it for many, many more minutes than I ought to have. And that was the riff. That was the divide, you know, and we had some reconciliation and apologies and, and, you know, tried to come back around, but it kind of created like the divide that just kept widening over the years. And so, you know, I miss her.

Leah:

yeah, yeah, I had a similar experience. You know, I had moved away from Ashland, Oregon. I was living in Santa Cruz. I go back to visit my girls. We're going on the town. I mean, this is during really like my party days and you know, and for like the last two years I've just been lighting up and I was taking Tantra trainings and Charles and I were together at the time but we're still in a long distance relationship. And we go to this bar and there was this guy that was always like hanging around town. He's one of the older dudes. It was really cute. And we might've all had a little crush on him. I didn't know she was like staking some kind of claim, right? And I wasn't taking any of the flirting all that seriously. I mean, I wasn't like, I was gone in for a relationship with this person. And I mean, I saw they were flirting in the beginning that I was flirting too. And I just thought everyone was flirting and having a good time and passing around the energy. Whoa, did her and I get in a scuffle that night, and it broke up our friendship, and I was just shocked. I was like completely shocked, and what it taught me was, wow, I was not reading the room.

Willow:

Yeah,

Leah:

I was not aware. That the way I was carrying my sexual energy and my sexual freedom and my sexual invitation, because I was a wide open invitation, not to be sexual with everyone, but to give everyone else permission to step into their sexual radiance. And I was trying to be an example of that. So I was really wearing it on the outside, not realizing that that was really threatening. and uncomfortable because I hadn't really learned to read the room at that point. I thought I was giving everyone a gift.

Willow:

right. Yeah,

Leah:

Turns out, you know, don't shove a gift up someone's nose that they weren't bargaining for.

Willow:

that they're not ready for. And, you know, in, in the name of reading a room, that was sort of my, my next experience, where again, I did have a level of consciousness, but then, you know, Alcohol came into the scene and it all went out the window. That was where I lost my best guy friend, you know, it was, it was the wedding in, um, in Italy. I've spoken about it on the podcast before some of you may remember, but, um, you know, I went to my best guy friend's wedding and, It was so crazy because I'd just come off of leading a private retreat, a private pilgrimage in the UK with a client of mine. And we were running around naked and in our femininity and in our sexuality and the standing stones in Southern England. I mean, we were just like really in our sexual glow. And then, um, I had also just been like swimming with the dolphins in the Bahamas with this whole group of people, you know, taking ecstasy and just like

Leah:

You were in love. It was non monogamy.

Willow:

was

Leah:

Land that was amazing.

Willow:

Yeah, exactly. I was like, had the, I had the guy in my life that I always wanted. Like, everything was, was working. And, um, and so I step into this wedding scenario, this wedding scene and I meet everyone in Florence and then we're all going to Tuscany the next day. And I'd never been to Italy, so it was my first time, um, in that country. And so, As I kind of meet up with everyone in Florence, I'm like, okay, wow, this is a really different group of people. Like, I am going to need to sort of curb my enthusiasm a little bit, like, curb my sexuality a little bit and kind of reign it in. With, but it was like, that, that was true with half of the wedding party. And then the other half of the wedding party, there were like burners and they were all about it. And then, you know. They're curious. They're like, teach me Tantra. You know, I'm like, okay, anyone who wants to learn, I'm down to teach. Let's do this. And, um, and, uh, at the, the wedding, like the few nights before the wedding, we all get out to this amazing villa in Tuscany. I mean, it is gorgeous. Like this wedding was multi million dollar wedding. And, um, And so we're out there, we're getting settled in, it's the first night, many people have not been sleeping well, particularly bride and groom. Um, and then the tequila was flowing, okay, so we were all drinking and dancing and having a great time, all was well, I was like, ready to hook up with the DJ, cause he was Some hot European guy from somewhere. Um, and somehow I got lost from the DJ and I ended up in the bride and groom's room with everyone. Like everyone was the after party was in there. We're all hanging out, still taking shots and smoking joints and having a good time. And, um, you know, this one woman in particular was just like really into what I was all about. And she just was really attracted to me and she had a boyfriend. And so, you know, I was just, we were just talking and I was sharing a little bit of flirting. It was fun. It was all good. Um, one thing led to another, she's like, let's get in this big, beautiful, there was this amazing, beautiful, huge marble bathtub, like in the, in the center of the bride and groom's room. And, um, And I had been sticking my feet in it because someone turned it on. Someone poured bubbles in it. So I was like, well, let me put my feet in these warm sudsy bubbles. This feels great. And then a few people were walking around putting their feet in it. Um, and then somehow this girl was like, let's get all the way in. Let's take our clothes off and get in. And I was like, I had enough awareness to be like, okay, well, maybe we should check in with your boyfriend, you know, let's see if he's okay with it. So she's like, okay, good idea. So she goes over and he's like, she's like, yeah, he's cool with it. And so we get in the hot tub and we're doing, um, Yab Yam, which is a very, you know, sexual position, but we're, I'm teaching her Yab Yam, I'm teaching her. Especially naked. Yeah. And I'm teaching her how to, you know, again, this was the burning man side of the party, right? So this was like, this would be a totally normal thing for this community to do. And, um, so I'm teaching her how to run the microcosmic orbit and yab yam, and we're just breathing and, you know, connecting, uh,

Leah:

describe what the yab yam position is, because there's a lot of people who won't recognize that

Willow:

Yeah. So yab yam is, um, a position where one person sits sort of on top of the other person and raps. their legs around the other, um, while the one at the base on the bottom is just sitting in cross legged. And we weren't that, um, we weren't that close into Yab Yam. There's different sort of like variations of Yab Yam that we can do, you can do, so we were a little bit more apart from each other. We weren't like fully embraced. But at any rate, we, um, we're doing that and somehow The lights got turned down. That was like a big part of what ticked the bride off, I think. So then the bride, and this is now it's like three, four in the morning or something, the bride walks in and she just started, she was, got livid. Like she started being like, okay, everyone has to go to bed now. Everyone has to leave, you know? And so we all did. And we, you know, Ushered ourselves out and I didn't think anything of it. I was like, all right, whatever. Cruising on next stage. Like, let's go sit in this big, beautiful room and talk to people, you know? And, um, it turned into a fucking nightmare that night. Like an absolute motherfucking nightmare. I, I, two of the Burning Man crew, they kind of like walked me out to a different zone. And they were like, yeah, she's really mad. Everyone started telling me like, why she's really pissed about that. And I, somehow I became the scapegoat. It was this other girl's fucking idea. She wasn't even really like a best friend or she got invited because of her boyfriend. You know, it was this whole thing.

Leah:

but she wasn't a part of the inner circle.

Willow:

Totally.

Leah:

you probably got blamed for being closer to the inner circle.

Willow:

I did, I got super

Leah:

and being the teacher, quote

Willow:

being, yeah. And so, basically,

Leah:

but you weren't the instigator.

Willow:

I wasn't the

Leah:

the record be

Willow:

Uh, yeah! It wasn't my idea. Yeah. I never would have thought of that.

Leah:

For the record, I did not instigate the

Willow:

Yeah, that's right.

Leah:

Just my toes,

Willow:

I know, I was just getting my feet wet. I was totally innocent. And so, um, yeah. So then I spent many hours out there with the, with the couple, with this other friend, these other friends, and they were like, you should just sleep here. I'm like, where? There's nowhere to sleep. I have a huge bed in this other room on the other side of the property. And they're like, okay, okay. So I walk back to the other side of the property and this place is like a maze. Like, I don't, I'm like, I get lost. I'm like, I don't even know how to get back to my room. You know, this huge villa in Tuscany, all the rooms are like. It's like a castle. So finally I'm like, I'm on track. I'm like, okay, there it is. And then I'm walking up toward my bedroom and I, there's these four women and my best guy friend, and they're all just standing there kind of blocking the doorway. And I'm like, Oh, here we go. This is a big what's about to happen, you know, and, um, I had done the training with Linda Caesara, so I was really in practice of putting my, you know, field up around me, like, and reading energy and like holding energy. Well, plus I've always been, you know, done that for a long time. So, um, Um, I put my field up real quick right in that moment. I was like, okay, my stuff, everyone else's stuff. Right. And so basically talk about the scarlet letter. Those four women were just throwing venom darts at me for like an hour and a half. And my best guy friend who happens to run the merging pattern, um, which if you don't know what that means, go watch our interview with Steven Kessler, uh, the merging pattern, where he doesn't really have a sense of core or a sense of standing up for himself or

Leah:

with everybody. He's

Willow:

else? Yeah,

Leah:

All the bad feelings. He's trying to hold

Willow:

yeah, he's just like, who do I, how can I make this right for everyone? And he couldn't, he couldn't make it right for everyone.

Leah:

and he's the groom

Willow:

He's the groom. Yeah, exactly. And his, uh, bride to be is just a mess and livid about the whole situation. I mean, it wasn't even like I did anything with him, but anyway, apparently there was some jealousy. Yeah.

Leah:

her

Willow:

I've.

Leah:

in her wedding field

Willow:

Yes, exactly. Which I, I totally understand.

Leah:

you if you can stand back, can you

Willow:

I totally can. I can for sure. Absolutely. No, a hundred percent. Yeah. But you know, that, that, and so that was why it was so important for me before the wedding, before we all got there to like spend some time one on one with her and get to know her. And I invited her to my house in Santa Cruz before we all went to Italy. And we sat in the hot tub naked together and smoked a joint, you know? So I was like, I tested the waters

Leah:

gotcha. Well, that's a good

Willow:

sexual sovereignty like, you know, and we talked about sexuality and I thought, okay, she's, she's sexually sovereign enough and

Leah:

you feel like

Willow:

me.

Leah:

Looking back on it, were you missing cues in the hot tub with her in Santa Cruz?

Willow:

That's a good question. I don't think so. However, she and I did have like a two and a half hour conversation after, after, let me finish the story. I got kicked out of the fucking wedding. Yeah. Four in the morning, basically those four women and they decided you have to leave the property right now. You have to leave the premises right now. And, um, so I had to go back to my villa and like pack everything up in the dark,

Leah:

Witch trail concluded...

Willow:

Total Fucking witch trial. And then my friend like carried my bag and they got me a taxi, put me in a taxi and they're like, he just gave me like a couple hundred euro. He's like, good luck. I'm like, are you kidding me? I have nowhere to go. I'm like, I don't speak the language. The taxi driver was like, where do you want to go? I was like, um, and I'm drunk. I'm drunk, still, I'm all, how about, is there a Marriott? I couldn't think of anything. He's like, okay, I'll take you to the Marriott. So he took me to the Marriott. I show up at the Marriott like a wet, you know, bedraggled, just, oh, it was terrible, like tears and the whole thing. And there was no rooms available. The concierge starts calling around all of Florence. There's like no rooms anywhere and in the entirety of Florence. Finally, finally, he gave me the overflow room and gave me till like two the next day to check out because by the time I got to the room, it was five in the morning or four. I don't even know. So anyway, um, we did talk. So I missed the wedding, needless to say, and I was having conversations with people while the wedding was like still going on the next day. It was so weird. There was It's huge divide between the wedding party and it just was handled poorly, right? There was, and people were texting me and they were like, God, this is insane. And I was like, yeah, it's insane. It was just like the biggest, probably shock to my system that I'd experienced, you know, at that point. And, um, And then I got to experience many more shocks after that in the following years, but that was the biggest one at that point. And, um, you know, when we talked after, after the wedding was over, I think it was like a month or so later that we talked for like two and a half hours. And she did apologize for that. She's like, I never would have kicked you out in the middle of the night like that. Like that should not have happened. And, um, you know, and we just talked about all the different pieces. stuff around her relationship with her father. There was a lot of levels and a lot of layers that contributed to me being the final straw. You know, there was like so many things that that were up for healing that I don't know. I don't know if they ever really got resolved or healed inside of her because I basically tried to, uh, you know, reconcile the friendship with, uh, with her and with him and still stay in contact, but it has now fizzled into pretty much nothing. So that was sad. I miss him too.

Leah:

yeah, you know, I remember just, I remember being so upset by this friendship. I mean, she was one of my very dearest, best friends. I grieved that friendship for ten years,

Willow:

Uh huh.

Leah:

know. I just, I would reach out, because I'm a lifer. I thought we were lifers. I thought we had the kind of emotional capital that we could have overcome any misunderstanding. And, um, in, in retrospect, you know, she had a dad who cheated on her mom her whole life. So she was always threatened by other

Willow:

Other women.

Leah:

Yeah. There was always an other woman wound. Um, she struggled with orgasms and I was, orgasms have always been easy for me. I've always been very responsive. So I didn't know, I mean, I was in my early twenties. I didn't know the depth of Comparison wounds. I didn't know that, that that was something that people really wrestled with. In hindsight, I do now. I would have been a lot more sensitive had I been aware that this sexual awakening that I was in rapture around was clearly threatening to other people. And what was interesting for me is I was always one of those people coming of age like, I did never went into competition with my girlfriends and boys. Never. I was like, fuck that. I, I was a girl that gained weight and did the whole, I'm gonna be so weird and counterculture that I don't have to worry about people hitting on me because I just want to be everyone's friend. My, my need and my desperation for belonging was so deep. I was afraid if I was propositioned, I wouldn't know how to say no. And so I just, you know, I created a strategy subconsciously on how to stay good with the girls and keep the boys away. And I was just as horny as everybody else. I was just kind of doing, I was doing hookups, but I prevented myself from falling in love and from having a real boyfriend. There was all this threat around sexuality growing up for me. And so I, I didn't let myself be pretty. And that was such a huge colossal wound because I was afraid of being the slut. And so now I'm going through this huge sexual awakening. I am claiming the inner slut. I am wearing that freak flag. Fly, baby. And I didn't want it to be diminished and finding my beauty and giving myself permission for that. And then to have the thing I was most afraid of, to be, feel like the scarlet letter, to feel like I wasn't going to have the female friendships that were always so. Important to me. It's devastating.

Willow:

Yeah, it is, it's devastating to lose those close people in your life who are just not in alignment, you know, with that level of, of sexual sovereignty.

Leah:

Yeah, like every time I went through Shasta, every time I went back up to Ashland, I would reach out to all my homies and I always reached out to her and I always got the brush off. And then we had these other friends that were uncommon and I would just like cry on their shoulder going like, what the fuck? What the fuck? Is that, was that so unforgivable?

Willow:

Right. Right. It was. For her it was.

Leah:

parts have to get safe. And I realize now that that was more important, protecting whatever that, whatever was up. And, and since then, I also had to learn in those early years, like, not everybody wants Tantra. Tantra is not for everyone. I was a little bit of a born again Tantrica and I thought everyone's life would be better if they had conscious sexuality. And the truth of the matter is, is it's not for everyone. And learning how to meet people where they're at and only share what they can hear becomes. an art form and that requires attunement.

Willow:

Yeah, absolutely.

Leah:

So how has those experiences for you... how has that shut you down? How do you move forward? How do you calibrate your own sexual shininess?

Willow:

yeah. Well, you know, it was like, I guess I was the other woman in sort of those, those two situations. Not sort of overtly similar to like how you were not, you know, overtly like stealing somebody's

Leah:

anyone's

Willow:

boyfriend or something like that. But, um, but that was sort of the perceived, there was a sense of betrayal and, and I was the one, you know, who was doing the betraying. And so, um, I think that piece of the feminine wound, and then the following year, I sort of got my karma back on that. And, you know, I was, you know, Um, then experienced betrayal based on other women being in the scenario and in the picture and couldn't have what I wanted and what was amazing and right and so perfect and true for me. I couldn't have that because There were, um, you know, these other women and even currently, even presently, I'm having a tiny little, well, it's not super tiny. It's there. It's very present. It's like I can feel it in my body even. And it's this, it's a samskara, you know, it's this, samskara is a word that is a Sanskrit word that means like, well, there's this imprint of, um, an experience from the past that's sort of, um, putting a lens on what's currently happening in your life. And so I'm currently having that with, with another couple of friends, you know, who I had introduced. And um, it's because there's this friend of mine, this dear, one of my best friends in the whole world, you know, is like the other woman now. And so, and so there's this dynamic going on where then I can't be free and I can't have the level of, um, playfulness and openness and in sexuality that I would normally have with, with the guy, you know, who I've introduced. And so it's just been fascinating to, to watch and to continue to commit to the path, you know, to continue because it's like sometimes. on the path. You just want to go back to normalness.

Leah:

you

Willow:

I don't just go,

Leah:

out of suffering?

Willow:

can I go back and be a, you know, can I just go back and have like a normal life and a normal, you know, there's craving for that. And especially at the age that I'm at, you know, it's like, Oh, I just want the security. I just want the family. I just want the home, you know, can I have that? So I now have the amazing traveling, adventurous, sexually adventurous, like amazing, phenomenal life. That I wanted for all those years. So I've

Leah:

you were in a committed relationship.

Willow:

a committed relationship. Yeah. When I had all the safety and security. And now that I, now that I'm in that life and in that world, you know, it's like the grass is always greener. So I think that's the. The biggest lesson for me in all of it is really just to like surrender to what is and also know that there are, if I look at things scientifically, there are so many forces at play. Like there's, this isn't all my doing. Like I don't have to make meaning of every little thing. Thing that happened, you know, it's like things just happen. Things happen. Two people, four people, they just happen. You could take out the two and four things just happen, you know? So can My question to myself is like, can I just still choose love?

Leah:

yeah. Can,

Willow:

the answer is yes.

Leah:

Mm hmm.

Willow:

But it requires a lot of digging deep.

Leah:

and can you modulate, be flexible, be influenceable regarding the limitations of others, the limitations inside yourself, to create a dance that works for everyone. And do you want to?

Willow:

Yeah, exactly. That's, you know, and that's the thing to just keep your finger on the pulse for me to keep my finger on the pulse of as each moment passes, you know, and as things are being handled the way they're being handled, you know, not so much to the way I would like them to be handled, you know, but that is because everyone's coming from a different life experience and a different background and different wounds. And so they're operating out of those. And so to really zoom out and to just see like how each player is sort of operating from their own set of, of wounding. And, and just to choose to stay in love, even though those woundings are clashing with each other and triggering each other, just to, like, see the bigger picture of the souls involved who are really just You know, filled with love.

Leah:

Yeah, so what do you feel like you've learned? Like, what are the corrections that you won't, or the, what are the, what are the mistakes you won't make again, I guess? Like, in terms of like, whether, regarding learnings, if there's any takeaways that sort of shift who you want to be and how you want to be.

Willow:

So I think what I, what I mostly learned is, um, you know, to take More time with what I'm experiencing, because I think when I go into a triggered state around this stuff, I tend to flee, right? I tend to, like, not have words for how to communicate in that moment. So I think then in those moments like pausing longer and even just saying to, to the room and to the situation like, hey, something's up for me and I don't know what it is or how to express it.

Leah:

Yeah, let you need time to process it.

Willow:

Yeah.

Leah:

think that's beautiful. I think that's the most responsible thing anyone can do. I think it's the most honest thing anyone can do.

Willow:

Yeah. Yeah.

Leah:

the most loving thing you can give yourself, and it's, and staying there instead of fleeing. And what I mean by that is that you may leave, you may have to actually leave and let yourself process before you can come back, but you're not abandoning the process. You're just giving yourself the time to be in it and so that you can go up and come back and go up and come back as you find yourself and sort it out.

Willow:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was gonna say, you know, like maybe bring more, bring like slow down and bring more consciousness into it. But in thinking on all those scenarios, I, I was pretty conscious. Like I, I knew what was going on. I was, I was going slow enough, maybe not slow enough in my heart and giving my heart away.

Leah:

Hmm.

Willow:

Um, but the heart just wants what the heart wants and goes where it goes.

Leah:

Yeah.

Willow:

So, um, but the heart also has an intuition and has a sense of like, hey, something's, something doesn't feel right here. And so instead of like ignoring that.

Leah:

Yeah. So is that what

Willow:

it out loud

Leah:

Yeah.

Willow:

it because I haven't had

Leah:

Yeah.

Willow:

or like enough Um, I don't know what the word is like just enough practice in staying through those moments

Leah:

And it seems like there's something when you feel like you don't have the words, there's a place that I'm wondering if this is true, that you kind of get lost and, and then

Willow:

Yeah

Leah:

maybe not wanting that to be seen.

Willow:

Yeah,

Leah:

Like, not wanting to expose anyone to that place inside of yourself.

Willow:

where I don't know where I am.

Leah:

Yeah, that's scary. That's understandable. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting, I think my fear in moments like that is abandonment.

Willow:

right.

Leah:

That someone will leave and not stay and not work it out and not, not want understanding. You know, like, cause I'll do everything to understand what the other person is feeling that feels transgressive. And then I just, and then I just want the same, please stay with me so that you can understand my heart.

Willow:

Right.

Leah:

Especially if I've made a mistake.

Willow:

Yes. And see, that's where we're aligned, Leah, is understanding and love are some of our top two core values.

Leah:

so true.

Willow:

In life. And you know, it's just, it's not everyone's value. And I have experienced people doing that, abandoning, walking away and leaving because they don't value that or they don't have the capacity for it, you know, like their life just doesn't allow them to have capacity for it.

Leah:

Right. And then to do the most loving thing is to understand that and go, okay, they don't have, I have to let them go. You know, it's like,

Willow:

So there's this big level of forgiveness that has to come through, and it's like really forgiving. yourself for me. Forgiving myself. Yeah, forgiving my,

Leah:

other?

Willow:

forgiving other too, but like forgiving myself for, for walking into situations where I do have awareness. I do have consciousness. I did go slow

Leah:

Hmm.

Willow:

and still got shattered.

Leah:

Yeah. And so where do you take this, all this beautiful reflection and all this beautiful tenderness? How do you make medicine out of that going forward in the new year?

Willow:

That is a great question. Um, well, I'm in the midst of a forgiveness tour right now here on Maui. So we'll see, we'll see what 2025 brings. I mean, when I was here last two years ago, living here in the middle of winter, I just had so much hope and so much vision and so much dream and so much, you know, Inspiration, and drive, and desire, and Eros, and sexuality was also alive, and

Leah:

Does any of that need to be restored?

Willow:

yeah, it's being restored now,

Leah:

Hmm. Mm

Willow:

today, you know, it's now, it's happening, it's being restored. As I forgive, because it's like the forgiveness, yes, forgiving others, forgiving the other women, forgiving the men who couldn't choose themselves or their own hearts, you know, and forgiving the children who are involved, you know, forgiving the situations that were happening and, um, and through all that forgiveness, I think it's like those are the blocks, you know, so letting them go one by one.

Leah:

You know, when I think about this, and I think about some of the course corrections I've had to make, like, what was the unconscious motivator, right? I think a part of, one of my takeaways that is a gift For my experience is learning how to let go of a relationship that wants to let go, you know, and like healing that, allowing that to happen instead of fighting to keep it, like being in the grace of letting go. And then another thing was like, it helped me understand in environments, like from teaching from the front of the room, understanding like what's the appropriate energy I need to model. It's not just having my sexual energy run rampant. It's, it's a cultivation of knowing how to have an intensity meter around my light.

Willow:

yeah,

Leah:

You know, in these environments, I can, I can bump up the volume. In these environments, I need to tap down the volume and not look at it as other people are suppressing me. And making it a victim story, but trying to cultivate that I've got range. So I think it helped me in that. It also recalibrated for me that my female relationships are really important. And I don't want to be competitive. Like I have no interest in that. I don't want to play that game. I will take myself out of those environments. Like that's not a safe place for me. It's not a thrill there. I get nothing out of it. There's no benefit. I don't want those kinds of women in my life. And I'm not going to play in that playground. So I just like, I feel like I put that so strongly in my field that I haven't had to over, It hasn't been a drama that I've needed to repeat over and over, so I feel, like, grateful that that taste was enough to put a bad taste in my mouth. Um, and I've had to also like allow myself to be the pretty girl

Willow:

yeah,

Leah:

the pretty girl problems and like not run away from that either, not do the opposite. So I feel like all of that drama, those are some of the gems and the medicine that I've been able to extract over the past 15 years, 18 years of processing, how terrible and painful and shattering that was.

Willow:

Yeah, yeah, that's beautiful. Yeah, I think that, you know, the, the medicine that, you know, that you're speaking of and it's so apparent in you, you know, you really did take that pill, like how, no matter how bitter it was and, you know, have digested it and have really stepped into that and, um, I think through, through the pain. And, you know, the bitterness of the pills that I've had to swallow the last couple of years. It's just, um, I think the medicine that will come forward for me is, I'm not sure exactly, but I think it's something around like not boxing up love, you know, something about finding the true, something about finding the true freedom in love.

Leah:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like there's freedom in love and sometimes love needs boundaries.

Willow:

Yeah, sometimes it needs boundaries. For sure.

Leah:

yeah.

Willow:

It does need boundaries. And, and it's like, can I still love all those people?

Leah:

Well, can you realize that there's freedom in the boundaries? Like, actually, there's an illusion that says if there's boundaries, there's no freedom. But actually, the playground gets bigger when you know what the limits are surrounding it. Because you have a container. Like, we kind of change our framework for boundaries. It's just containment.

Willow:

Yeah.

Leah:

Yeah, yeah.

Willow:

exactly. So learning how to, like, measure containment in each scenario and situation. So that it doesn't get too boxed up and tight, but it has enough room to breathe appropriately in the given situation.

Leah:

Yeah, it's deep stuff. Well, thanks for your realness and your vulnerability and your tenderness. It's fucking gorgeous, girl. I'm really proud of you.

Willow:

Thank you.

Leah:

Yeah. So, 2025.

Willow:

and see what's on the other side.

Leah:

shed our skin. I wonder what I want to shed. I've been very melancholy.

Willow:

Have you?

Leah:

Yes, I have been fighting the melancholic feelings. And I think it's just winter. I think I get like this in December.

Willow:

December. Yeah.

Leah:

so, I don't know. I don't, like, I'm sitting here and I want to be enthusiastic for 2025. Like, who's excited? Let's get after it. Let's crush goals, you know? And I'm like, Let me be. Let me be happy, let me be healthy, let me be whole, let me be generous, let me be forgiving, let me be balanced,

Willow:

Yeah.

Leah:

me not grasp.

Willow:

Yeah. Yeah. I like that. I like that. Yeah. Yeah. Let us know in the comments what you are stepping into in 2025 and, um, we would love to hear just, you know, Just whatever it is that you're leaving behind,

Leah:

Yeah, what are you shedding?

Willow:

are you shedding? And what are you stepping into? Even if you don't totally know what that is, what's the feeling that you want to feel as you step into it? And I think for me, the most high feeling that I want to feel is this sense of deep contentment that joy, like true joy and true love come from.

Leah:

Yeah, I have a desire for Matt and I to explore our sexual Intimacy in new and creative and more frequent ways. Like, finding more spark. Really, like, tapping into that in a way that most couples don't. I need to find the key to that. And, it's like we get glimpses of it for a little while, and then it kind of dissipates. And so, like, I wanna Be, and sometimes I just, I, I just, like everybody else, I kind of lose inspiration. And so I want to keep exposing myself to inspiration so that him and I can go even deeper. Um, I want my private practice to continue to thrive and even go to the next level without taxing my energy reserves.

Willow:

Love it.

Leah:

going to do that is I have on the schedule that every six weeks we take a four day adventure, me and Matt for ourselves. So I think that's going to really help with that. I'd like to

Willow:

got to come to

Leah:

show grow,

Willow:

The show is going to grow. 2025, the show is going to grow. Send this to all your besties, people, so that we can grow, grow, grow. And I am excited to have a really successful retreat in Greece in October. So, um,

Leah:

So let us know what you want from us, because we will deliver.

Willow:

Much love, y'all.

Leah:

Yeah, Happy New Year.

Announcer:

Thanks for tuning in. This episode was hosted by Tantric Sex Master Coach and Positive Psychology Facilitator, Leah Piper, as well as by Chinese and Functional Medicine Doctor and Taoist Sexology Teacher, Dr. Willow Brown. Don't forget, your comments, likes, subscribes and suggestions matter. Let's realize this new world together.

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Dr. Willow Brown

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Leah Piper

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