Lyuba Venable: Frustrated by Sexual Rejection? | Why the Honeymoon Phase Really Ends (and How to Get it Back) | #119

Ever wondered why the "spark" fades in long-term relationships? In this episode, sex and relationship coach Lyuba Venable reveals how understanding your core sexual desires can transform intimacy from routine to extraordinary. Whether you're in a sexless relationship or simply wanting to deepen your connection, Lyuba shares practical wisdom about bridging different desires and creating lasting sexual chemistry beyond the honeymoon phase. As Lyuba perfectly describes, "Communication is lubrication" when openly discussing desires that are bond to ignite physical intimacy.

WHAT YOU'LL LEARN:

• The fascinating concept of "core desires" and how they shape our turn-ons
• Why some couples stop having sex and the step-by-step path back to intimacy
• How to share vulnerable desires without shame
• Practical ways to bridge different sexual desires between partners
• The power of deep listening in building sexual connection

EPISODE LINKS 

• Lyuba’s Website
• Book | Erotic Mind by Jack Morin 
• Lyuba | Schedule a free discovery call 

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Chapters

• 1:44 Guest Introduction: Meet Lyuba Venable
• 2:50 Breaking Down Common Relationship Challenges: Sexless Partnerships
• 3:44 Addressing Sexless Marriages and Partnerships
• 6:21 Exploring Core Desires: Understanding Your Sexual Blueprint
• 13:38 Bridging Different Sexual Desires Between Partners
• 26:56 Live Demonstration: Discovering Core Desires with Willow
• 38:25 Processing Sexual Shame and Hidden Fantasies
• 46:31 Coaching Services & Workshop Information
• 51:13 The Dish with Leah & Dr. Willow
• 57:58 Fantasy vs. Presence in Sexual Connection

Transcript

Leah: 0:41

Welcome back our longtime listeners and to our new listeners. Welcome to the show. My name is Leah Piper. I am your Tantra expert here at the Sex Reimagined podcast.

Willow: 0:50

And I'm Dr. Willow Brown, your Taoist expert. today we've got Lyuba Venable, who assists individuals and couples to cultivate more pleasurable sexual experiences. She's uncovered that pleasure extends far far beyond reaching orgasm, it's actually a holistic way of life. So she's right up our alley. She does workshops in San Diego once a month and she coaches people privately, both couples and individuals, and she was a delight to interview. You're going to love her.

Leah: 1:20

She sure was. A lot of her work is, she was trained by Celeste and Danielle up in the San Francisco area which is really cool stuff, sexual somatica. You're gonna love all the juicy things she brings to the table. So, tune in, turn on, and fall in love with Lyuba.

Announcer: 1:36

Welcome to the Sex Reimagined Podcast, where sex is shame free and pleasure forward. Let's get into the show.

Leah: 1:45

Yeah. Welcome to the show. Lyuba, the beautiful woman who works with couples, whose name translates to love. What do you think

Willow: 1:55

love, love. She's gonna enlighten us with what it means to love and to love well inside of a relationship. I'm curious, Lyuba, right off the bat, do you work with couples who are in monogamous relationships, non monogamous, or somewhere in between?

Lyuba: 2:11

With everyone, uh, with, uh, I work with individuals and couples and, uh, it's, um, like a different dynamic, but like we all, all humans, we all want the same thing. We want intimacy, we want connection, we want more sex. We want to feel heard and it's just like no matter how you identify, what type of relationship you're in, it's all it boils down to those basic needs that we all want.

Leah: 2:39

Yeah. So true. What are some of the the biggest problems your clients and your workshop attendees are facing? What are they complaining to you about?

Lyuba: 2:51

So the number one, the most common reason that people come for coaching as a couple, it's usually sexless. Partnership like sexless marriage, like so that there is sex disappears. Right? And that happens. I don't know if it happened to you, but it happened to me that like when we start dating someone, that new relationship energy, the hormones, uh, right, is like, as well, it's called honeymoon phase. And it's like everything, like we feel hungry and it's, it lasts like. Three to six months, sometimes two years, but then it disappears, right? And then like, people say, I want that, but then that is not happening anymore. And then like sex somehow stops. Uh, and then the disconnect happens. Right. Um, and so that's, that's what, what we are addressing when working with couples.

Willow: 3:45

So what kind of modalities do you use when you're working with couples who are coming to you and haven't had sex in, I'm guessing, maybe sometimes years, sometimes months? I was just talking to a friend the other day, she's like, this is the longest we've gone. And I'm like, oh, how long has it been? She's like, seven weeks. I'm like, that's

Leah: 4:03

Oh

Willow: 4:04

lot of sexless marriages. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's all perspective, right?

Leah: 4:13

That's right There's there's nothing wrong whether it's been seven weeks or it's been You know, six years. There's no judgment in that. It's just how do you

Willow: 4:23

do you get back? Yeah.

Lyuba: 4:26

Exactly. And many couples think that like, Oh, like there is no way we can come back, but I'm telling you as sex and relationship coach, there is a way. Um, and so I'm trained with, um, uh, Somatica Institute. So they, they call it Somatica method. Um, so this is like my main training, but as well, I use Tantra, um,

Leah: 4:48

Which one? Is that Celeste and Danielle

Lyuba: 4:50

Daniel, yes,

Leah: 4:51

Okay, great. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lyuba: 4:53

yes, yes, yes.

Leah: 4:55

Yeah, I love their work.

Lyuba: 4:56

Two powerful women just put together an amazing training. I'm just so inspired by them. Um, yeah, and, and so just like, you know, to, um, like what I see, to summarize it, that, um, what happens for humans when we, when we are together, live together, have kids together, we do financial things together, right? So we step on each other's toes. So that like, it happens, like, no matter how good match we are, how much in love we are with each other, we step on each other toes. And, and that creates, like, we put a little hedgehogs, like, bricks between, uh, and the disconnect happens, right? So, like, people live together, but there is a wall between. And that's a lot of times, like, when I work with a couple, I try to go into some touching, bringing some sexy energy, and they can't even touch each other because there is that wall, right? So. Uh, we focus on repair that like those The sins that hurt, that like one person, one partner did, another one got upset, and vice versa. So we go back to those sins and we create a repair when, when people can really get into their feelings and to see human in another, another person, right? Because a lot of times we see a monster there that like, they just do this horrible sin, right? So this is one aspect. And then another one, the curse. core desires. This is what Somatica teaches, that every person have that feeling that we crave heaven in sex. And only when that feeling, when, when that feeling is happening for us, that's when we have the best sexual experience ever. And that feeling, we don't choose it. It's like psychologically, it's building us when we are kids in a way, like there are wounds. Anything that like experiences that happened then later we want to heal those wounds in sex and so helping people to find that feeling right and then like find ways how to create it in sex. And a lot of times for couples

Leah: 6:57

you talking about core erotic themes? Is that what you're refering too?

Lyuba: 7:02

Um so so i see i didn't hear like that exact naming so i'm not sure it's probably a different modality i wonder if it's a similar scene could you say what it is

Leah: 7:15

um, so, um, Dr. Jack, and I always forget his last name, um, and I, I, the reason why the first time I heard of core erotic themes was from a student of Danielle's and Celeste, which is kind of what made me think when you said that core feeling that you want to feel. And my understanding is that the core erotic theme comes into play. As a young person, right as a young child, there's usually shame connected to it, but it's sort of an erotic essence that we are connected to, that is operating in the subconscious. And so sometimes we, we, we're not, because it can be a little bit of embarrassing sometimes, sometimes it's hard to talk about it or to even like look at it for yourself and then to like say it out loud to somebody else. But when we can own that core erotic theme it branches out into like so many beautiful pathways for us to step into deeper intimacy and to actually find access to our erotic nature. Is that, am I on the same track? I don't want to take you off track.

Lyuba: 8:16

No, exactly. That's, that's exactly. I love, I love the term that, that you're saying that core erotic themes, like I, I learned it as core desires, but this is what you're talking about. Yes. There is that feeling and, uh, shame all usually there when, when we explore, when we find that feeling, uh, because Childhood wounds attached to it, right? There is shame that comes up. I want to give my example that it took me some time to tackle, to really find what is my core desire, because there is a list of these feelings, like to feel wanted, to feel celebrated, to feel seen, and all of them sound so good, right? It's just like, yeah, I want to feel seen, I want to feel celebrated,

Leah: 8:59

Sign me up. Yeah.

Lyuba: 9:03

But there is something that is like for each person that is like, it boils down to one. To that one that is like really deeply we are longing for. And so for me, I discovered it's like, It's feeling special. And so the moment I stepped into it, I went like, What are you talking about? Like, no one is special. Why do you see, why do you want to be special? That's not okay. We are all equal. Like, you should, right? So there is that inner voice. So I needed to do some work around that before I could really talk to my partner and like, really. Dive into that.

Willow: 9:37

So there was shame around your core, um, desire. There was like, there was actually like, no, you shouldn't want that. You shouldn't feel that way. Society told you that, or you have that limiting belief around yourself. You know, I think, um, I'm, I've been talking a lot about this thing. It's so common for women to be like, I just want to be seen, you know, or I just want to be cherished, or I just want to be, what I come up a lot with, with women is I just want to be seen by him. I don't feel seen by him. And I just keep seeing that. These women are afraid to be vulnerable, so they're not showing themselves, therefore the man can't see them because they're hiding parts of themselves due to these shadows of shame. And so I'm just curious, like, how much you see of that in your work with couples, like these shadows of the core desire.

Lyuba: 10:32

Exactly. Exactly. That, that there is, um, like, I love this, the saying that vulnerability is a new sexy, that like being vulnerable.

Leah: 10:43

Nice.

Lyuba: 10:44

Right? That, um, that being vulnerable, especially harder in our society to, um, people socialize as men. That it's just like you have to be like puff up, strong, man up, don't be vulnerable, right? And it's confused with weakness, but then like actually, um, getting exposed, right? Like to just be removing that armor and just like being who I am, that's hard. And that's something that we are working. In coaching, like how to be vulnerable, how to be who you are, and then on another end, how to receive that, right? Like how to be really present and not drop that, because it can be very hurtful to be vulnerable with someone who can't hold it, who can't like meet you there.

Leah: 11:29

Yeah, so how do you help a partner receive someone's vulnerability? How can, how do you help them up level that?

Lyuba: 11:38

yeah, that this is, this is an amazing question because, um, uh, how you receive it, that you're just, Really being present and listening with your heart, right? A lot of times, um, that, like, Carnegie says that everyone is lying, but it doesn't matter because no one is listening, and there is like, there is truth in that, right? I even catch myself that, um, Someone is talking when it's a business meeting and I already thinking like do I agree or I not agree and then like what I say next and And so it's okay. We're humans. We function like that But then in this intimate settings, right when person is sharing something and especially when they say like, oh I have something vulnerable I want to say then me as a receiver Just to really listen, to listen with my heart and to try feel everything they say and just like to bring empathy, to really emphasize like how they're feeling, how it is for them and then trying to feel it and then to name feelings. Sometimes person is talking, they don't say how they feel and then I'm like, Oh my God, that feels like, Oh, like you felt really lost. You felt really lonely. And then this moment like person starts having tears, right? That is just like when you really. Hi that right, so that like you are, you open and you're receiving the whole person. Like I would say to my clients in this moment, you're the most important person to me in the whole world. And I have my family, I have kids, right? But there is this moment that like I'm focusing on you so much that no one else exists. And that's that feeling, right? That's how you want to,

Willow: 13:14

I, um, heard a little quote from a, from a local Santa Cruzian man. He was like a staple in this kooky community that I'm in right now. He recently died, but he had a little saying that everyone's kind of thrown around now, which is like, when you give someone your full attention, it's like the sun shining down on you.

Leah: 13:34

mm hmm, it really is.

Lyuba: 13:37

that is so good. Oh, I

Leah: 13:39

And when you have such a deep craving or a wound about feeling invisible, you know, I'm, I'm partnered with someone whose core wound is invisibility. And so it's like, I, I have to really tend to giving that undivided attention. To convey, I see you, and you know, I'm, I can be a little bit of a scatterbrain, so I miss the mark sometimes. But it's interesting when you have that core wound or that core desire of wanting to be seen, bringing that wholehearted listening to the conversation and giving them the presence that says what you have to say matters and what you feel matters to me, because you matter to me. And slowing everything down to just be with someone in that place. That's how we heal each other. And I think that that's like really part of the essence of why we come together in partnership. You know, it's because we do have these subconscious hurt parts. We have these little kids inside who are trying to, like, resolve all the stuff from the past. And it's like, when we can show up with, I think, consciousness and purpose, knowing that our shit is going to trigger our partner's shit and vice versa, we can be really even more powerful for each other. Then that first three months, six months, two years, if you're lucky, where all you're relying on is brain chemistry. And it's so easy to want to rip each other's clothes off because you are, you have this flood, these, these cocktail running through your brain that makes them like, it's effortless to give them your undivided attention because you've got hormones that are racing through your body, providing you with that attention. But then once you get safe with someone and, and you find yourself in commitment. Our attention drifts and we're not, and our, and our sexual energy drifts also. And we're kind of like, God, where is it? I used to be so horny all the time. I can't even find it anymore. Um, so how do you help people with like their sexual energy? That's like a really flat, you know, once they kind of start to figure out the vulnerability, what's the next step to getting them on track in the bedroom?

Lyuba: 15:53

Yeah, and and this is this is where core desire comes in because a lot of times people are having sex when you're on hormones In your relationship energy. It's just everything is just like hot and you just Right? But then, but then later, like this core desire that I noticed when, when my core desire being touched, even outside of bedroom, I just, I get turned on. Right? So, uh, it's like finding that core desire and then for couples bridging it, because it can be. Um, that like, uh, core desires don't necessarily match. Like, for example, when I feel special and my partner wants to be a sorcerer, then it really matches because like he, he does everything to make me feel pleasure. That's his core desire. Right. And that speaks to me feeling special. So that's great. But that's like, That almost never happens with couples. That our core desires a lot of times quite opposite, that I'm special and my partner wants to feel wanted. So I want him to, to come and like, do all of the scenes for me to feel special, right? But he wants me to do a similar scene to, that he feels wanted, right? So then we really look for those creative solutions, how for couples to bridge, how, how to arrive in that. Uh, that they can flow and so when desires are being touched, this is when erotic energy flowing and I, I can say from my experience and from my clients that it even feels, it goes so much deeper that it feels better than energy, than that like hormone stage, because we have this like, we tap into such deep places that it's, it's like the longer we are together, the better sex because we keep, we keep exploring, we keep deepening.

Willow: 17:45

Can you give us a specific example, maybe just even from your own relationship or from a clientele or something like that, where it's like, you know, in this example, you're talking about your desire to feel special, like what is a specific thing that you have your partner do to make you feel special? And what is a specific thing that he, that makes him feel wanted? That's one part of my question. The other part of my question is, In this sort of like core desire model approach that you use, are there like five core desires that you, that people generally have or, or is it just, um, a free for all? Like everyone has a different core desire. Are there themes or?

Lyuba: 18:30

Yeah, yeah, let me start with the second one that is like, that's the easy, uh, there are like the feelings there are so many and I would say like around 50, right? So it's just like, it's not five, right? It's like there are more common ones, uh, but it's just like, and it goes, it can be this, you know, Positive feeling like that, that you want to heal your wound in like feeling accepted, celebrated, special, but as well, it can be where even more shame, um, uh, comes up when it's like feeling humiliated, feeling degraded, feeling used, like those feelings that is just like,

Leah: 19:06

is one of mine.

Lyuba: 19:07

Oh, here you go, here you

Leah: 19:10

that's gotta be threatening. Right.

Lyuba: 19:15

right? Like breaking boundaries, like breaking the rules, right? And then person goes like, what's wrong with me? Like, why do I have, why my desire is not like beautiful, right? But that's, that's the point that like, we just, We remove shame, right? And it's like all, all core desires are great. Yeah. And then, and then for the first question, Willow, that, um, with, uh, with bridging, um, this, like, that, uh, I, I want you to feel special. And so what, what works for me that my partner and, and it's like, it's a dance, like I keep finding more scenes, but something that like so far works that, Like the moment I like I pass by and my partner just looks at me and like God you're so amazing You're so beautiful, you know Just like expressing that like look at you or like I get naked and then he just like he looks at my body And it's like almost he never seen me before, you know, like that that just like feeling that like, wow, I am special. Like we've been eight years together and every time like, right, like he looks at me like that, or he just like comes to me and starts looking in my eyes and just like say something like really deep and meaningful, right? And it feels good as a person, but as well, it turns me on because it's core desire for me. And so then for him feeling wanted, Uh, that's, that's something that like, um, he loves to, um, that, that like I will just jump on him. Like there's something about jumping that I jump on his shoulders and it's just like I pin him down and, and for him it's like, okay, she can't wait. She's just like, so,

Leah: 20:53

I'm irresistible. Yes. She has to pounce. I love

Lyuba: 20:59

yeah, you know, um, and, uh, or, or another scene that I just I pull his shirt, I say like, come here, and I bring his face close to me, right? And it's, it's not necessarily power dynamic, it's just like he feels everything and he goes like, and those scenes, right? I would never do it because it's not in my, Um, like, in my core desire, right, like it's not in my system, but when I know that my partner really turned on by that, and every time I do it and I see how he himself, it becomes fun, right, and the more we do these things to each other, it just like, whew, it's like firing and firing, sparking, and it's flowing, I

Leah: 21:47

Yeah. I love it. It builds circuitry.

Willow: 21:50

So when couples are coming, because you do workshops every, um, once a month down in San Diego, San Diego people, by the way. They're, she's down there doing them every month. Um, so what, let's say a couple comes in and they're like, okay, we haven't had sex. We definitely have a problem. We haven't had sex in five years and we don't even have any spark for each other. And we're constantly dealing with children and we're constantly dealing with finances and the house. And, and we don't even like, this is not even a relationship. It's like a, it's a business partnership. Like, how do you get them from A to Z? What you're talking about, be.

Lyuba: 22:29

Yeah, yeah. So, so what you're describing, Willow, those, um, they come for private coaching. So, the case you described, they're not comfortable enough to come to a workshop because in workshop you have other couples, right? So, you want to be, you want to be more connected for that, right? So, um, For a couple like that, I will not even invite them to a workshop. I work with them for a while and then I'm like, okay, maybe the workshop would be good for you.

Willow: 22:55

Yeah.

Lyuba: 22:56

Um, and, and so how it goes that Uh, we work first on creating repair, removing that wall, right? So, that like, really, um, I invite them talking, you know how couples usually talk? Like, one person say, say something like, really hurting, and another person gets defensive, and they just start fighting in the office, right? Like, some people more mellow, some like, more intense, but then, then what I'm doing, I would like interrupt them and like really bring to feelings, like, how are you feeling? So that one person who is sharing, instead of saying that hurtful scene, like really feeling how I felt in that moment, right? And sharing from my feelings too. So when they share that feeling, Partner who is listening, I really want them to empathize. So I will not let them say any word until it's empathy. Right? And then I help them. So we work together. We are like, oh, it sounds like, oh, like that feeling, that feeling. So we bring to feelings and then tears come up and, you know. It takes several sessions. Sometimes it takes like up to 10 sessions to just move that wall, right? And then the wall is, when wall is gone, then we work on intimacy, just looking in the eyes, touching for like non sexual touch, just like getting that closeness. And then we bring the core desires. Because if I bring core desire at the first session, right, it's like they're not ready.

Willow: 24:28

Right.

Leah: 24:29

That makes sense. That makes sense. So with all these different avenues for core desires What are some of the questions that you ask to help people start to discover what their core desire is? How do they start to name that?

Lyuba: 24:44

Yeah, you're on it, Leah! Definitely, that's, that's, yeah, yeah, yeah! Um, so in Somatica, they, um, the visualization that we are doing, um, that think of your hottest sexual experience. And for some people visualization really works, and for others They're like, no, I will fall asleep or they're like, they just don't want to close their eyes. So then we just talk, right? Then we have a conversation. And then as we are talking or they dive into visualization, it's all about Thinking of that hot experience, and sometimes people never had hot sexual experience. They never had something they would call it the best sexual experience. Then I would say let's fantasize, like, what would, what would be that? Like, maybe you saw it in erotica, maybe you saw it in movie. Like, let's just create

Leah: 25:35

what do you masturbate to to like get you turned on?

Lyuba: 25:39

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then we like really boil down to what are you feeling. That hot moment that makes you like you're about to come. It's just so hot. You, you're like about to explode. What are you feeling? What feeling is like, what are you experiencing? And that's how, like, you know, like a start, like they would say feeling or they're like, I don't know, then I will attune and try, like, you know, come up with feelings that coming up for me. And so we start like playing with that. Yeah. So

Willow: 26:08

And when you say feeling, in that moment, are you talking about like, what are you feeling like, um, sensationally or emotionally? What are you asking of them?

Lyuba: 26:19

um, that's, uh, I, I think it just combines that, um, it's emotionally like, are you again, like, are you being, like, you feel like really accepted, right? So, and then, like, what's happening, right? So, so it is emotional, but sensation is part of it too, that, like, oh, are you feeling, like, deeply seen? Or maybe you're feeling used or, right? Like, and then like, we are looking into like, what, or some people like, just, I feel like animalistic. I feel like animal. I feel I am in charge. Right? So, and then we just like really go there and it can be many feelings.

Leah: 26:56

this is fun. So, Willow, can we play this with you? Because I want to know what your core desire

Willow: 27:01

I do too. Let's play. Let's

Lyuba: 27:03

Oh my God. I love, I

Willow: 27:05

here thinking, I'm like, what's, what's my core desire? Okay. Coach me, Lyuba. Hit me.

Lyuba: 27:12

love

Leah: 27:12

Hit me where it feels good, baby. Hahaha.

Willow: 27:24

Okay,

Lyuba: 27:25

what would that be?

Willow: 27:26

oh, oh no, I've had some hot ones. So,

Lyuba: 27:33

Just

Willow: 27:33

um, okay. So, you know what? The hottest and the best for me is being seen, being connected, being, like, really knowing that person through and through. And then other hot ones where it's more like, You know, just like a, you know, just a quick encounter with somebody where, where we don't have that depth of relationship and connection. Then those hot ones include like, um, still a lot of intimacy, like a lot of just like deep eye gazing, a lot of soul connecting, and then a match with each other's bodies, a match with each other's rhythms. Physically, like my, you know, my booty fits into your hip perfectly, that kind of thing. But then also, Um, my, uh, like my rhythm and my, you know, dance fits their rhythm and their dance.

Lyuba: 28:31

And could you describe a specific experience? Because you're talking in general. Like, could you think of one specific one?

Willow: 28:38

Sure.

Lyuba: 28:39

say names, right? But just like really describe what was happening. Was it, yeah, just like start talking about it.

Willow: 28:45

yeah. So, so in one super hot one, I think God must have lasted for four hours or something. Went on and on and And I mean, it was just like, it was just, we were tossing, it was like a, yeah, it was, he had that animalistic quality of like, but so much love and connection as well, like such a deep union and a bond. Um, we're using a vibrator. We're using the infrared vibrator. So it had the, um, the light that like red light was glowing in the room, you know, and then, then he was inside of me and I was using that on the clit, um, going from all different positions from behind to the front. Um, Um, on top, underneath, uh, let's see, what more about details? Oil, lots of oil.

Lyuba: 29:30

Okay, like what, so it was one person, one person, and it was just two of you. Are you wearing naked?

Willow: 29:38

Naked, I mean, yeah, naked.

Lyuba: 29:40

Naked, naked, and are you inside?

Willow: 29:43

Yes,

Lyuba: 29:44

it inside? Okay. And then, and then like, as this happening, like, what, what are you experiencing? Like, what are you feeling?

Willow: 29:53

I'm feeling super seen, super cherished, super like physically charged, like very hot yoni, but also a lot of breath, like bringing it up through my whole shishumna, bringing it up through my meridians, up into my brain, a lot of, um, tantric, you know, sounding, breathing, um, going slow, then going fast, you know, like, Taking a pause and just being in that languid place and then charging back up again, you know, and yeah.

Lyuba: 30:30

yeah, yeah. And is it that like, um, um, like what is person, it's him, right? Like, so what is he doing to you? Like, like, what is it like he's doing something or you are doing something? Like, what is

Willow: 30:43

I think more just like a union, like a, just to get, like a flow, like a dance. Like, like we're, nobody's doing anything, it's doing us.

Lyuba: 30:54

Uh huh,

Willow: 30:55

So we're just like being held in this, like, energetic flow, like this energetic dance.

Lyuba: 31:03

Hmm, yeah, yeah. You just like, this tells definitely that you're responding to energetic turn on, right? Like Tantra is hot for you, anything like, you could meditate and then have an orgasm, or doing yoga, have an orgasm. Stuff like that.

Leah: 31:20

Yeah.

Lyuba: 31:20

And then like, um, I hear how you say that you enjoy feeling seen. I wonder if there is that feeling, um, almost like, um, like transcendence, that like you lose sense of yourself, that like you, there is no you, no that person, it's just like you turn into something in the oneness.

Willow: 31:41

Yes, definitely. I have a lots of like pineal gland orgasms where it just goes like fractalation into the sphere of infiniteness.

Lyuba: 31:54

And then are you having those kriyas, that like, that your body is shaking,

Willow: 31:57

Lots of Kriyas.

Lyuba: 31:59

you do them together, that like you connect in them.

Willow: 32:02

Oh, yeah.

Lyuba: 32:03

It is this

Willow: 32:04

And a lot of like upward draw, a lot of like getting to the edge and then pulling upward draw, bringing it to different areas in the body. And like, and then also this is another turn on for me is like when somebody really understands anatomy and really knows the body. Like at the same level that I do. That is, The

Lyuba: 32:23

And then, what is what there? What are they doing when they understand your body? Like, what,

Willow: 32:28

Oh, maybe like nibbling on heart three or like sucking on kidney one or like, you know, nibbling behind the, you know, along the, the conception vessel, you know, all these different acupuncture

Lyuba: 32:43

Oh my god! Oh, that's amazing. That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. So, so see that is here like, um, like I would say that feeling seen is, um, something that is like, definitely like you respond to that. And there is deeper, that is deeper, that like transcendent feeling that like transcendence, just like losing yourself. So I think that's something that is very important for you sexually,

Leah: 33:09

Hmm.

Lyuba: 33:10

that like when you tap into that, that, that like, that's when it's happening.

Willow: 33:15

Yeah.

Leah: 33:16

Yeah, like, like when you're safe enough to truly dissolve and go out to the airwaves and like, Jing, you know, the body dissolves a little bit, sounds like.

Lyuba: 33:26

Yeah, it meets you in that. So it's important for you that they dissolve with you.

Willow: 33:33

Yeah. I mean, uh, they don't have to dissolve with me and their own experience, but as long as I can. Yeah.

Leah: 33:42

Okay, that's interesting.

Lyuba: 33:44

space for you.

Willow: 33:45

Yeah. Yeah. I like, I like like the big strong arms and like, you know, good space holders.

Lyuba: 33:54

Hmm. Big, strong arms. Oh my God. That they like, they can hold you. They got you right. That you can like fall, they will catch you. Yeah. That just like maybe submitting, like get it into that, like submissive space.

Willow: 34:11

yes, definitely. That's good for me to be in that receptivity place. I liked what you were saying earlier on our interview where you were talking about receptivity and presence, because I always am saying to people, you can't receive what's coming tomorrow. You can't receive what came yesterday. You can only receive what's happening right now. You know, so right now we're having this fun little like banter around like, what is Willow's core desires? You know, and it's,

Lyuba: 34:38

Yeah. Yay.

Willow: 34:39

it's, that's what we're, you know, that's what we get to receive right now.

Lyuba: 34:43

Yeah, yeah, mmm, yeah!

Willow: 34:50

Okay, Leah, your turn, girl.

Leah: 34:52

Well, you know, I was just thinking when she said earlier, feeling used, I was like, Oh, yeah, of course my stranger danger does lead to the desire to feel used, you know, to be able to surrender and be a little objectified. Um, I think for a long time that really scared me. Those deep desires. Um, and then when I stopped being afraid of it, or maybe I just healed enough, I realized like, I want to keep moving in that direction. Cause something really does open in me. Like the turn on moves really fast when I'm in spaces where I give someone permission to take their pleasure and to somewhat objectify. Now I still need a level of devotion. in that because I'm not really, I don't really get turned on by pain or being like too rough unless I'm at a super high level of arousal. So there's a little bit of mastery that has to be played with there. So I want someone to take what they want and to use me, but I also don't want to be roughed up too early or too soon because then my nervous system tends to, um, What's the word? Uh, get over amped and then, and then I'm out. So, uh, there's like a real dance. I really want someone to like be totally paying attention and reading my opening and my closing, but I do kind of want to be, uh, manhandled and taken advantage of.

Lyuba: 36:24

Yeah,

Leah: 36:25

the sweet innocence and, and just totally get nasty with it. And I want to feign kind of like the whole time, like, oh, I'm so corruptible. there's some breaking rules in there. There's all sorts of stuff, but I think like if we were to isolate it, it would be feeling used.

Lyuba: 36:42

your self awareness is so beautiful. I love how in details, you know exactly what you want and how you want it. And this is just like how the communication is lubrication, right? That like, let's say if you had an apartment, You can describe them just in details, right? And this is such a gift that like they can know exactly what's working for you, what's not working. So that's just, uh, that's a great model in what you did right now. And another scene I want to say that Again, like talking about shame, that, that like because you enjoy being used sexually, it doesn't mean anything how you show up in life. Like in life you can be very powerful, you can be like boss, like powerful, like the lady boss, right? And uh, but then like just Because I found that conflict that, like, I am turned on by rape, and this is so confusing because I don't think rape is at the end. Some many people, but then there is shame, right? Like, there is like, oh, let me hide it, something wrong with me. And it's not. Like, we can even play it, right? Like, I can just watch something and, like, really enjoy it. Just let the pleasure be. It can be something inappropriate, right? Like, something that is not okay. But if it brings you pleasure It's totally fine to go there. Consent has to be there. That's very important, right? That who experienced their consent and they are grownups, but then like we can have all sorts of pleasures and then we get in life and it doesn't shape our life. It doesn't identify us. If I'm turned on by something, it doesn't identify who I am. That's just such an important piece.

Leah: 38:26

I'm really glad you brought that up because this is a place that I think doesn't get named in the conversation and it's actually another theme for me is I want to go deeper and play with my edges of consensual non consent. And a part of that is playing in some of those realms where being taken advantage of again being used, um, you know, having some of these ideas of like rape scenes and that can be a turn on. You just look at. What's popular on the web. And a lot of times people are looking at more of that hardcore porn and seeing a lot of these themes being displayed and feeling really confused about why does that turn them on? Why does that light them up? And I think it's important that you don't necessarily have to pour a ton of meaning into, you're fucked up because this is what you like. Um, it doesn't even mean that you want to act out your desire. Cause we have desires that in our mind take us to different places of opening and turn on. And that doesn't mean that we actually want to play them out either. I've got some fantasies in my head that are like, whoa. Way too dangerous to like actually explore out loud in the flesh, you know, like really way too risky, but I can think about them and turn myself on and then have epic sex because I've got a thread there. And I think we don't talk about allowing people to have permission that just because they may have a Controversial desire that they're afraid other people might judge, but that really works for them, that they need to be ashamed of it. Right? Like if we could give more people permission to go, your desires are okay. No matter what they are, you just want to make sure that in the exploration of them, that you're, you're exploring with people that are giving you consent and that you have a safe place to talk about these desires so that you can name them, see them, allow them to flourish. Allow them to grow and expand in your mind. So you've got more of these like hot movies to sort of explore in your head. Um, without necessarily acting them out where you're now labeling yourself as dysfunctional or not okay. Or like the continuation of shame continues to isolate you and keep you from having the kind of relationships that

Lyuba: 40:38

you want

Leah: 40:38

How do you address that when people are starting to come face to face with the things, with the desires they're afraid people will judge them if they were to admit them.

Lyuba: 40:50

Yeah. De shamifying. There is this word I learned in Somatica. I don't know if it's a correct English word. It's de de-shamifying, removing shame, right? That like when a person comes up with something, a lot of times it's like, Oh my God, like so many times people say, I never said it out loud. Like I never shared it with anyone. And then they feel, you know, They trust enough, right? Like they can open up, they say it. And then it depends how I respond to it, right? Like what is true in me. Like I might really like just celebrate it and you know, just like, seeing that it's really hot. Or even if it's not hot for me, just like to To bring the, to normalize it, that it's your desire and it's okay, like, you can, you can fantasize about it, or you can find people who give you consent, and you can leave it because we don't choose desires, right? Like, that's the key, that we don't choose desires. And that desire, they didn't choose. It doesn't mean, like you said, they're not fucked up. It's just, they have that weird desire and it's okay. Like many of us, we have all sorts of desires.

Leah: 41:54

Right, because many of us do have a lot of wandering desires, so to speak, that we don't act on, but that do, that are thought forms that run through the system and when, and, and have opened doors to certain states of arousal. Um, I, I really hope, like one of my prayers for our culture is that we can start, uh, becoming more lovingly honest about what these things are and that we have a place to look at them without judgment and then to find out who do we get to become when we, when we see these desires inside of ourselves, we acknowledge these desires in other people, like really what's the potential of that? It'd be really fun to be like, I don't know, to be a part of a community that like explores that and studies it and does research on it for like 15 years or something to kind of see See what happens because I think it's pretty untested, you know, I think we're still operating under a lot of fear and a lot of shame and a lot of discomfort. When we start talking about sexual things, I was just on a cruise ship. Um, and it was interesting. It was like 6, 000 people on this cruise ship. I was like, Oh my God, this way too many people. I'm totally like, Oh, no, this is not the, this is not the boat for me, but, uh, you know, people ask me what I do. And so, you know, I'm, I'm honest. I talk about intimacy. My, my show is called Sex Reimagined, you know? And so it's like, you can just start to see like the discomfort. It's almost like I can not only sense in my own senses of my system, but I can actually watch their body language. Start to get very uncomfortable, even when you use the word intimacy or you use the word sex. And I noticed like, and this is, I'm much, it was funny to be in this type of environment. Cause normally things just roll off my tongue pretty effortlessly. But I, I noticed the first couple of times I'm even tripping over my own words. Cause I'm sensing so viscerally other people's shutdown that occurs. And maybe it's because it's a stranger. I'm not really sure, but I

Willow: 43:53

Well, I think it speaks to your, um, fine tuned ability to wield sexual power and energy. Because there you are in an environment that is full of people who are shut down in that department and not comfortable talking about it in that department. And so it's a very different Leah that's showing up in that environment than would show up at the Tantra retreat in Tulum, you know,

Leah: 44:22

there's a lot of calibrating going

Willow: 44:23

Exactly. So you, you've been doing this for so many years and for long enough that you can, um, you know, what I call wield that sexual power because being able to talk about it, being able to have conversations about sexuality is empowering in and of itself. Being able, having knowledge about it, knowing about the four orgasmic pathways and the different parts of the vulva and the vagina and the erectile tissue and the arousal scale. Like being educated on it is another level of empowerment. And so by default, as you study, as you practice, as you talk about sexuality, whoever you are, if you do it for a living or not, you are empowering with each one of those layers and steps along your journey, And so I was just speaking with a woman the other day who was like, God, I get really triggered by women who are inauthentically using their sexuality to like sell stuff, you

Leah: 45:19

Oh, really?

Willow: 45:20

I was like that, that, so there's, and she's like, but I know it's something in me. You know, she was aware of that shadow inside of herself. And so I just think that, you know, we all are on, We're all on this journey of sexuality, whether we want to be or not, because if you have breath, you have sexual energy in your body. So it's all just innate. It's part of our DNA. It's part of our health. It's part of our lives and we can sweep it under the rug until the cows come home. But that's what you're saying, Lyuba, is that's when the, um, the resistance and the shadows and the, the danger starts to grow. And that's just true of everything, but especially things that are super taboo, like sexuality. And finances.

Leah: 46:03

Yeah, so like, in closing, Lyuba, I'm curious, what do you say to the partner that's really having a hard time listening to their partner's desires? Like, they got judgments that are just coming in, their walls are closing down. They don't like the desires that their partner is communicating. And they're, they're being really like either judgy or even recoiling from their partner. How do you help them deal with that

Lyuba: 46:31

yeah. So that's, that's like, let's see, like, that's a tricky situation because when we are together in the room, it can get very unsettling. So in case like that, like, when I notice something, I would suggest individual sessions. It's a lot of times it happens that like it's more productive to address individually, even sometimes core desires that like person opens up more, they will share more about their what a sex, maybe it wasn't with their partner, maybe it was before, right? And so I would have a separate session like when we are one on one with that person, and then we just go, we tap deeper, like, because this is, this is what I know that I work, I walk through the world, right? And there are scenes that I don't pay attention, and then there are scenes that I really love, and there are scenes that I really hate, and those like, it's all, it touches something in me, right? So if person is having strong reaction, it means something has been triggered in them, so we just need to dig deep and just to really look, and maybe there is reason there with that partner, right? Like they're doing some inner work, because we don't We don't pay attention to sins. It's fascinating how oblivious we are as humans, unless that sin, like, really touches something in us. Right? Then I have a strong reaction. It can be either positive or negative, but it's usually something in me when I'm having it. So, and then we just work on that.

Leah: 47:59

Yeah. Well, how can people work with you? How can they get ahold of you?

Lyuba: 48:04

Yeah, my, my website, um, www.Lyubavenable.Com and my name, how you spell it, it's L Y U B A. And then my last name, V E N A B L E, and you probably will list it, um, in, under the episode. And so when people go on the website that like you can schedule free consult call with me for those who are ready to work and interested. I work in person and on zoom. A lot of powerful things happen on zoom online, which is just fascinating how intimacy works, you know, across across cities. Um, and then. And on this discovery call, we usually see if we are a good match, if like what they're looking for, I can really help. Um, and so if it's a yes, then we schedule a session, or if it's a no, I'm happy to talk to people, you know, and just like direct them into like, point them in other directions. And if people are not ready for, um, session yet, uh, I invite you to sign up for my mailing list. I send emails where it's like how to pleasure your life and I send for tips and tricks and create recordings for like how to interact with each other in the bedroom when I have my voice guiding certain scenes. So yeah, just sign up for mailing list.

Leah: 49:23

Great. Great.

Lyuba: 49:24

And the workshops!

Leah: 49:25

you so much. And then, yes, tell us a little bit about your workshops.

Lyuba: 49:29

Yeah, so the workshops, I created this series of workshops for couples and we have a new theme every time. So we just had a workshop on core desires, um, and the next one will be, um, how to ask for what you want. So asking for what you want, where we do exercises, it's experiential. So people, we use touch, we talk, um, so it's like, People get to explore, like, what do I really want and then how do I ask for it? How do I ask for it in such a way that they want to, for me, want to give it to me? And then every month a new theme. So it's like, it keeps going. It's every time you, so yeah, check it out there on my website.

Leah: 50:08

And then how long are your workshops? They're usually like day long or a couple hours or weekends.

Lyuba: 50:13

They are around three hours. So we have like a potluck or tea time before, and then it's three hours and it's usually in the evening. It's like Tuesday or Wednesday evening and it's like 6 PM tonight. So it's a, you know, like just. To unfold in the evening, to just like dive in together. And then you, after that you go to bed or you have a fun, um, sex, sex night.

Leah: 50:38

turned on and you do other things before you go to bed.

Willow: 50:42

Love it. Yeah. So

Leah: 50:45

well, it was lovely having you on the show.

Willow: 50:47

Lyuba.

Lyuba: 50:48

Oh my God. So much fun. You are so much fun. The energy is so rich. And for being my client Willow. I just, I enjoyed it so much.

Willow: 50:58

That was so fun. Yeah.

Lyuba: 51:01

Yeah.

Leah: 51:02

everybody stay tuned because up next you've got the dish with your girls, Leah and Willow. And, uh, again, check out Lyuba and we will see you soon.

Lyuba: 51:13

Bye.

Announcer: 51:14

Now, our favorite part, the dish.

Leah: 51:19

All right. Dish a dee doo dah, the beautiful Lyuba, um, Venable. What a cool name, Lyuba Venable. I mean, it's like so delicious. It kind of

Willow: 51:31

It rolls right off the

Leah: 51:33

It sure does. It sure does. It'll, Leah Venable, Lyuba Venable, Willow Venable.

Willow: 51:40

Yeah. It's a good last

Leah: 51:41

name. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know what is funny when I look at names. I often look at their letters and then I imagine the letters in script. I don't know why I visually do that whenever I see the letters in a name, but she's got some good letters. She's got an L. She's got a Y. She's got a V. She's got a B. I mean, those are some sexy fucking letters if you ask me. So to go, Lyuba's parents.

Willow: 52:06

Yeah. And she's a pleasure to chat with too. We had so much fun just talking about, I really liked her, her whole shtick on, uh, desires. That was fun.

Leah: 52:17

Yeah, I do too. You know, it, it reminds me a lot of that. That is, um, work that was created by that. Um, this book I've been obsessing over called.

Willow: 52:27

Yeah. Yeah.

Leah: 52:29

by Dr. Jack, and I will get the name and put it in the show notes. I don't know why I have such a block of that last name, but anyways, um, it was really interesting because the research that he developed, you know, for years and years and years, he would collect data on, you know, Uh, two things that he would ask people, what was their hottest, most turned on sexual experience of their life? So that's where she was leading you into like really kind of naming what happened. What, why did it turn you on so much? What was happening that you were able to open so big? And then the other question was, and then what's your hottest fantasy? What do you think about when you want to get turned on? And as a result, all these data points came in, and this is where he kind of came up with the core erotic theme, which they're calling the core desire. And once you can start naming your core desire, what I noticed in my body is like, once I started to map out, Ooh, there's something about stranger danger. And then when I got to there, it was like, Oh yeah, there's that being used piece, right? And there's all sorts of correlations, correlations. If you knew my history, how, Oh yeah, that makes sense that there's some shame there, and there's this. Being used and then I went through a big era of my life of like being very angry about being used and now I'm like I'm on the other side and I couldn't be more safe in my sexuality ever and now I really want to be used. Like, I want to act out scenes about being used and once I finally kind of got to narrow in this whole idea of stranger danger, Then the ways to get me to turn on became richer and more interesting because I just had to get my head in the game. And I don't need to be in a fantasy with a lover. I don't need to stay in the fantasy in order to have a really hot sexual experience. But there is something about getting a flash of a movie scene of whatever that stranger danger is, or that objectification, like where I'm one of the Stars, right, in my head, that's having this flash of something that just opens me, it's like suddenly the blood rushes to my vulva, I'm getting wet, I want to be penetrated, like all these things start to happen, and it just feels like a part of my own, um, Journey to sexual sovereignty to understand that I've got this core desire and in that core desire There are thousands of movies that branch off from it that enriches my experience of my body whether I'm diddling myself or I'm being diddled by someone else like I Feel like what what's opened is I can get turned on whenever I want to. I'm responsible for my orgasms as a result. Like, cumming is so much easier, getting horny is so much easier, my libido spikes so much better, which means I'm also sort of controlling a little bit with more efficacy, the hormones running through my system, all because of this core desire shit! And, um, I just find it really empowering. But like 15, 20 years ago, if I had been exploring this in my Tantra community, specifically, probably my Tantra teacher would have been like, it's not okay to fantasize, like, fantasy is a big no no, only be in this present

Willow: 55:36

present moment

Leah: 55:37

Yes. And I think, I think that's really short sighted. I think that the two can exist at the same time

Willow: 55:43

Well, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, it's like you get your, like we've said so many times, your brain is your biggest sexual organ and that's what gets you to a heightened level of arousal with the person that maybe you've been with for 25 years. You might not be just be able to be present with that person, um, in order to get that level going. But once the arousal is You know, and if you're right there with that person, you're dropped in, you know, and it doesn't mean the flashes of the fantasy don't come through your mind as well. Um, I think, I think one of the, because that's in the Dao too, like don't, don't fantasize, be in the moment, be present. And you know, the sure that, that can work if you're with a new, new

Leah: 56:25

Right. Like sometimes that doesn't always get you to, you know, Twitterpated.

Willow: 56:28

Yeah, exactly. But there's, um, I think one of the things that, that both Tantra and the Tao are speaking to is to not fantasize about somebody else. Like, like, like in a, um, you know, in a, like if you're in a monogamous relationship or whatever, but even that it's like, you know what? I was turned on by the guy at the gas station the other day. It was hot. Now here I am with my husband. Like, I'm going to use that. I'm going to use

Leah: 56:53

that energy into my connection.

Willow: 56:56

Yeah, and I just, I've coached so many women, they'll be like, oh my god, there's this guy, but I have this husband, and ah, what do I do? I'm like, dude, use it. Bring it to your adrenal glands, bring it to the bedroom, like, it's your experience, it's your energy, bring it to your experience, bring it to your experience with your lover, and

Leah: 57:14

Yeah. I mean, I can also, I can also empath, empathize. Um. That someone might be listening to this and going like, that just triggers so many wounds of like a ma of like when you've been cheated on a whole bunch or you've been in a partnership with porn addiction or sex addiction and you know there have been secrets and like all this stuff and and it really sort of corrupts your feeling of desirability and like there's so much pain that can also be wrapped up in the idea of someone like fantasizing you know you can be very resentful of your partner's fantasies. Because that's the way that they open to sex. And so I just want to like name, like I get that and there's different extremes and all. It's like not a blanket

Willow: 57:56

Yeah. It's not black and

Leah: 57:58

nuances, yeah. And, and like if you're in that situation, there's a couple things that are being pointed out. I think one is dealing with your own pain. And working with the judgments that arise at the idea of someone else's fantasy, opening them and then bringing that to the sexual table with you. And one of the things that I realized as a turn on for me, like how I would work with my mind to work with that in my own nervous system is like, well, I kind of want to know what your dirty ass fantasy is, whether I'm in the scene or not. Like what's going on in your head right now? You know, like I kind of want to know what's the dirty thought that's opening

Willow: 58:35

Uh

Leah: 58:35

So that there's a place for inclusiveness.

Willow: 58:39

Yeah.

Leah: 58:39

Even if I'm necessarily in the scene and you're, you're fucking someone who has a totally different body type than me. I kind of still want to know, I want to find a way for my partner to bridge me into the experience

Willow: 58:53

now, and that

Leah: 58:53

not isolated from

Willow: 58:55

Yeah, that takes a lot of, um, self work and confidence in order to get to that level because so many people are going to be resistant of that and that's okay if you're at that place. It's totally normal as well. So, um, Just really the main thing is to honor where you're at and and stay present with where you're at. And if your fantasy is from the movie you saw the other night, then, you know, and you need to use it with the person you've been with for such a long time that you don't have much drive with them. It's like whatever is gonna turn your drive on, use that to get yourself to that level because when you do have high levels of arousal and high levels of oxytocin flooding through your body, you are in a more responsible state. And open state, it does bring you into presence automatically. So, you know, sometimes you have to use these other, you know, and it's not a, it's not a bad thing, it's not a good thing or bad thing, it's just a thing that you do.

Leah: 59:51

Right. And I think also, like, there's so many different ways to approach all this is kind of a very rich conversation because there's nothing that's like straight, it's not, it's not black and white here. There's so many versions of like, how do you work with this material when it's in your face, if it's triggering you, if it's opening you, how can you foster a sense of unconditional love so that we can bring these desires to life? to the table without feeling threatened by them. And I think one of the things that's really interesting, that's an added skill is a not using your fantasies to escape. Because then it's like, well, who is my partner even having sex with? Because

Willow: 1:00:28

Yeah. It's not an escape. Uh,

Leah: 1:00:30

They're in la la land, having a total porn fantasy, and it doesn't even matter that I'm the one they're fucking, you know? And so like, there is a place where you do have to wake up. I mean, the idea of like, let's, you know, Let's play with conscious loving, let's play with conscious sex is you're not withholding the things that open you. You're finding ways to put them on the table. Your partner's finding ways to not judge them and also putting their own desires on the table. And then you use this, these desires as fuel, but you don't use them to create more separation. You use them to create connection. And so finding creative and safe ways. To do that in your relationship and being open minded when you've been in a marriage for 10 years and you're not having sex even every month, you're maybe lucky to have it on your anniversary and your birthday. Like, how do you find your way back? Well, it's going to take, yeah, let's get our minds and hearts open. And I like that she leads with getting vulnerable, building intimacy, and then taking a look at more desires because they can be, it can be sticky

Willow: 1:01:37

Yeah. Yeah.

Leah: 1:01:39

Well, fun! Well, thanks Lyuba,

Willow: 1:01:41

Much love, y'all.

Leah: 1:01:42

and thanks for tuning into the

Willow: 1:01:43

Yeah, thanks for all your likes, shares, and subscribes. We really appreciate it. It helps our channel grow and we know that this information is very much needed in the world. It's why we do it. So, sending

Leah: 1:01:57

yeah, let's keep the conversation going in the comments, y'all. Love, love, love.

Announcer: 1:02:03

Thanks for tuning in. This episode was hosted by Tantric Sex Master Coach and Positive Psychology Facilitator, Leah Piper, as well as by Chinese and Functional Medicine Doctor and Taoist Sexology Teacher, Dr. Willow Brown. Don't forget, your comments, likes, subscribes and suggestions matter. Let's realize this new world together.