The Sex Reimagined Podcast

Jenn Wodtke: No Touch? 5 Steps to Experience Orgasm Without Physical Stimulation | #116

• Leah Piper, Jenn Wodtke, Dr. Willow Brown • Season 3 • Episode 116

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FINAL EPISODE SUMMARY

Hey pleasure seekers! Ready to discover how your body can experience orgasmic bliss without physical touch? Join us for a conversation with orgasm coach Jenn Wodtke about expanding your pleasure potential in ways you never imagined possible.


WHAT YOU'LL LEARN

  • The fascinating world of touchless orgasms (yes, they're real!)
  • Simple practices to awaken your body's natural pleasure sensitivity
  • How to transform sexual shame into empowerment
  • Why less stimulation might actually lead to more pleasure
  • A revolutionary approach to healing through "shame-gasms"


EPISODE LINKS *some links below may also be affiliate links 



KING & QUEEN OF HEARTS. Leah & Willow's King & Queen of Hearts Intimacy Toolkit is on sale. Buy Now. 10% off Coupon: KINGANDQUEEN10.

THE MALE GSPOT & PROSTATE MASTERCLASS. This is for you if… You’ve heard of epic anal orgasms, & you wonder if it’s possible for you too. Buy Now. Save 20% Coupon PODCAST20.

THE VAGINAL ORGASM MASTERCLASS. Discover how to activate the female Gspot, clitoris, & cervical orgasms. Buy Now. Save 20% Coupon: PODCAST 20

LAST 10x LONGER. If you suffer from premature ejaculation, you are not alone, master 5 techniques to cure this stressful & embarrassing issue once and for all. Buy Now. Save 20% Coupon: PODCAST20.

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Leah:

Hey, hey, hey, it is your Tantra Mama Willow Piper in the house

Willow:

I'm Dr. Willow Brown, your Taoist sexology expert. And today we interviewed Jenn Wodtke and it was so much fun talking with her about touchless orgasms. You're going to love this episode. It was just super fun and playful. We actually got real deep into some shame fucking. So

Leah:

Yeah,

Willow:

dig this. It's pretty, pretty cool stuff. And, uh, Jenn is a, sexuality, uh, coach. Orgasm coach, specifically for women. She really helps women, so you're going to dig it.

Leah:

Yeah. So, uh, boy, you better tune in. You better turn on and honey, you're gonna fall in love with Jenn.

Announcer:

Welcome to the Sex Reimagined Podcast, where sex is shame free and pleasure forward. Let's get into the show.

Willow:

Alright, we are here with Jenn Wodke, so excited to be exploring the world, the wonderful, amazing world of touchless orgasm. Jenn is going to just enlighten us on what exactly that is, how you go about it, and, you know, what it can bring to your sexual repertory, your relationship with your sexuality. So, welcome from Mexico, Jenn.

Jenn:

Thank you, thank you.

Willow:

nice and hot there, I hear.

Jenn:

Uh, yeah, it's, I'm a little bit sweaty. Um,

Willow:

The best way to

Jenn:

what it is.

Willow:

for a podcast interview.

Jenn:

There you go.

Leah:

this is not an orgasm related question, but one that I think is important if you think about me and Willow and how mosquitoes attack the living daylights out of us. Um, are you sensitive to mosquitoes? Being that Mexico sometimes has some pretty outrageous mosquitoes.

Jenn:

Bugs love me. Um, yeah, and I seem to not heal very well, so I have like, like red marks up and down my legs from when I was out by the pool, when I dared to went out. Go out and drink wine by the pool one evening, like three months ago. So, um, yeah.

Leah:

we,

Willow:

You know what I find works really good for all you mosquito ridden people like the three of us is, um, Neosporin. Neosporin heals it really quick. Little trick to the trade

Leah:

the other thing is if you can wash the bite right away, it takes some of the, uh, the poison, the venom

Willow:

Oh, with like soap and water.

Leah:

yeah, soap and water I find diminishes the length of time. It takes out the itch immediately. Normally I start itching still the next day, but it heals a lot faster. Um, and if it's not a very powerful venom, then you oftentimes won't even feel the mosquito bite. Itch at all. You can actually get rid of the venom. But if they're nasty mosquitoes, like they're still gonna bother you in about 24 48 hours. I'm experimenting right now with vitamin B1.

Willow:

It doesn't work.

Leah:

It doesn't work. Have you tried it? I'm doing a 30 day

Willow:

I've done like the, yes, I've done tons. I was in uh, Thailand, tons of vitamin B plus vitamin B injections and just nothing worked. You know what it is this to, yeah. Totally off topic, but maybe someone will be

Leah:

I know.

Willow:

Who gets mosquito bites?

Leah:

It's our show. I'm interested in it.

Willow:

Yeah. It's um, it's the female mosquitoes that bite and it's, they really like people who emit a lot of CO2. That's what it is, CO2. It's the smell of it. So it means we're very healthy.

Leah:

okay, well anyways

Willow:

Anyway, back to orgasms and touchless

Leah:

Because that's our other, it's a

Willow:

Jenn, take it away.

Leah:

How did um, how did you get into this industry and kind of finding yourself an expert in non touch orgasms?

Jenn:

I've had, you know, a long, windy road in. I think, looking back, I would say I was always sort of, sort of, Searching for something. Um, and as far as touchless orgasm goes, I had my first experience with that in my sleep in my twenties. It doesn't happen very often, but when I talked to my friends about it, they were like, is that a thing? Are you, are you sure you weren't kind of just masturbating in your sleep? And I'm like, no, no, I wasn't. And I really had nowhere to put it because, you know, we talk about, um, men and boys having, you know, wet dreams. But there's no context for women doing that. So I was like,

Leah:

I have them.

Jenn:

just an anomaly. What, right. And the more I started talking about it, the more I was like, Oh, people do have this, but it's just something that was completely, I wasn't even aware of it. Cause there was just, you know, we don't talk about pleasure at all generally, and especially not female pleasure, um, when we're receiving our sex ed. So. You know, as I sort of decided I wanted to, um, pursue more training, the second big piece for me was getting divorced. And I went, they lied to me about relationships. So bullshit. I think they lied about sex. I think they lied about a lot of shit. And then it just, the exploration into my sexuality, um, really kind of evolved from there and I, you know, went and got the training and, uh, I had put touchless orgasm kind of aside, like I wasn't even really thinking about it. And I'm in a retreat, you know, a room full of like 80 women, like all this like feminine, sexual earth energy just like vibrating through the room and we're doing these pleasure practices. And I was like, Oh yeah, this is a thing. And I like twice, I was like, holy shit, like I needed 10 more minutes, but I was like, I can do this. I can do this. You know, and then I went home. I was like, can I replicate it just by myself? And it's like, yep, yep, you can. And I think that's, for me, that's when a lot of pieces like really, really clicked, because I found it such an empowering moment to realize that I didn't need to rely on a vibrator. I didn't need to rely on a partner, right? Like I have this pleasure, and all of us do, have this latent pleasure That's already inside of us. And if we kind of can tune into the wisdom of our bodies and listen to our bodies, we can interact with that energy, interact with that pleasure, and we can grow it and we can circulate it to the point of orgasm if we want to. And what's better?

Leah:

so like when these things come to mind I get a lot of pictures in my head, right? So like there's one of like watching the YouTube video where you've got a woman who's on a massage table and you've got some sort of You know orgasm tantra guru is doing this energy work He's not touching her But he's playing with the energy up and down her body and she starts going into these ecstatic states. And then a picture comes through and i'm remembering Being at a conference and someone's taking us through this orgasmic meditation and we're visualizing our chakras and we're, we're moving our spine in the serpentine kind of position and we're clenching our pelvic floor muscles. But we're not, um, we're not relying on friction through touch to bring us into this ecstatic state. And then I'm thinking of other meditations, even just sitting in stillness and finding like an ecstatic state that feels quite orgasmic. But it's not like a, it feels like a clitoral orgasm where someone is getting your clit hard and rubbing you off one. It's like, no, you go to this, this transcendent thing that feels like it's rising from your spine and opening your heart and then kind of ascending into heaven. So when, giving those three images that are popping through my head right now, when you're talking about your experience, especially this one you had in this class. Do any of my pictures in my head resonate with what you're saying?

Jenn:

Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think, I think one thing to remember about orgasm too, is that our orgasm has so much variance built in depending on, you know, if we're with a partner, if we're alone, you know, what we're using as stimulation, like sometimes, An orgasm can feel like, like some of my, my first touchless orgasms when I finally got there, it was like a little blip, like a little clitoral orgasm. And then other days it very much felt like you're describing from the spine, like, like energy is rising up through me. But I think it's, Yeah, but I think it's important to write, to recognize even in a regular orgasm, how we interact with that pleasure and experience that orgasm can be wildly different, like, and I think that's amazing, a beautiful thing about orgasms, so, touchless or not, so it's, You never know what you're going to get,

Leah:

Never met a bad one, did we? You know, never met a bad one.

Willow:

What, what is sort of, what's the benefit of becoming adept at touchless orgasm and how does one do that?

Jenn:

I think the empowerment piece is that I mentioned earlier is, is an important element. And I think the other really biggest sort of teaching about it is that Once you can recognize pleasure in your body that's happening without, you know, friction or stimuli, stimulation, you have sensitized yourself to your own pleasure and becomes easier, because a lot of women also struggle to orgasm with a partner as opposed to alone. And if you've been working on this touchless orgasm, and it's not necessarily an orgasm, it's almost like a Touchless pleasure system inside you, the more that you work with that and become sensitized to your own pleasure, the easier it becomes to take these experiences forward into partnered sex. So you have this whole other avenue to orgasm and pleasure that you didn't before. And it's just that expansion is

Leah:

Priceless.

Willow:

Yeah, it's it really allows you to kind of like step into your wholeness your fullness and like Like show yourself what you're capable of what you're made of like what you actually have access to and you know a lot of women who come to me are like I have a low libido, you know, I'm always like, well, it's not low. It's just covered in some stress and the, you know, hormonal disruption and this and that and the other. It's we, so if we uncover it, this like energy will evolve inside of you and start to ruminate and circulate. And I really feel like, uh, women, like women in particular really need just more time and space. Like there you are discovering this when you were on retreat and surrounded by shakti, 80 other women, all wrything in their sexual juices and sounding together.

Leah:

I think also what this points to, which I think is really beautiful, and I think sometimes when people are looking at it for the first time it can be a little daunting, but it's a really beautiful path of self discovery when you're looking at this type of cultivation. Of really wanting to cultivate your energy, of being very in touch with your body, with the senses, you know, with the way that you breathe, and the way that you feel your clothes on your skin, or the air on your skin, the beauty that you are choosing to To make a part of your awareness, the, the sensations that you can really develop even if they're subtle. This all leads itself to like sexual sovereignty so that you know how to be in your pleasure body and you're not dependent or codependent on someone else taking you there. It's wonderful to have a partner bring arousal and eros into your system because they can help shift your system. But it's even more powerful to know that, you know, you know how to do that. And that's a gift you're bringing to your sexual encounters that I'm in touch with that. And because we place so much emphasis on like, can we come or can't we come? We put so much emphasis on like, I'm failing because I can't come or my partner's failing because they can't make

Willow:

view. Yeah.

Leah:

And it's just like a, you know, it's a,

Willow:

Set up for failure.

Leah:

a setup.

Jenn:

Yeah. And I

Leah:

to beat the setup.

Jenn:

And I just wanted to mention that there was something really important you said there about the subtlety. And I think we live in a very, um, we live in a vibrator culture in a lot of ways. Right. And I mean, I, myself, I used to own a Sybian, which I loved, but it's like, it's like

Willow:

Sybian?

Jenn:

That

Willow:

sounds like the Sybian, of a vibrator. Sybian. never heard of one of

Jenn:

oh, Google it, it's like this big U shaped thing and it's got a prong where you put various attachments on and it's, it sounds like, I had to, I was like, I can't use this on the floor because the, my downstairs neighbors are going to hear it. It's like Mack truck.

Leah:

Oh my God.

Jenn:

it's like this massive thing. It was fun. It was fun, but I think the trade off when we're too attached to our vibrators, and don't get me wrong, I love a good vibrator, but we lose the sensitivity to that subtlety. So when we start looking inward, we're able to, like I said, build that sensitivity. And I mean, I don't know, Don't we all want to be sensitive to more subtle pleasure? Like, that's

Leah:

where it's at.

Willow:

would think we would all want to. Some people don't, though.

Leah:

Well, some people like their preference is to feel strong impact, right? It's to, it's to get a high active charger. They think they need a ton of friction in order to reach a peak state. And that may be true and it's okay for that to remain a preference. But I think my, I want to really inspire others to consider the subtle sensations. And the only way you can really track subtle sensations is to, I think, come into a meditative mindset to study how pleasure runs through your system. How sensation runs through your system. And oftentimes we're so busy giving to someone else at the same time that they're trying to give to us. We lose those, those subtle sensations. We can't even hold onto them or grasp them because our mind is too busy trying to feel and do at the same time. So it's like, I almost feel like the key, and I'm curious if you agree, Jenn, is to allow yourself to not be the doer, but to be the be er. In some form or fashion that allows you to start to pick these subtleties up, because I just think your menu broadens. Everything gets richer and you have more variety and access to a lot more.

Jenn:

Yeah. And I think, um, it was so funny what popped into my head when you're like the giver and the receiver was like, I really want to love 69, but I'm like, I'm not doing anything. Well, I'm not, you know what I mean? Like, yeah. Right. Um,

Leah:

kind of an erotic picture in your head, but we could take turns. So like, I suck on you for a while,

Willow:

I don't know. I

Leah:

while and

Willow:

disagree. I've had moments where the energy has taken over during 69

Leah:

Really? I haven't had that yet.

Willow:

Yeah. But I've also had the experience where I'm like, okay, trying to do this, my neck hurts, trying to feel that down there. Yeah, I definitely had plenty of those. You gotta

Leah:

But I

Willow:

the Shakti has to take over.

Leah:

moment, right? If you can, you can both like really work on your timing.

Willow:

Like,

Leah:

Okay. Sorry. We digress.

Willow:

digress.

Jenn:

Yeah. But, um, but you know, I would say, like you said, like it's a menu, right? So if you like a good pounding, you're not needing to give that up. If you take, you know, Sometimes I set aside some sessions to really work on that lighter subtlety. Like, you can have them both. You can have it

Leah:

them both. Right. And,

Jenn:

can have it all.

Leah:

Yeah. Yeah. Because there are moments when it's like, I think, I guess when I think about this, I really do think of pleasure being a path to self realization. Who am I at the slowest, lightest, barely there touch. And then who am I, when I want to be pounded so fucking hard, you can't get in deep enough, you know? Like I feel like I am a limitless void that can just keep taking it and taking it and taking it. I mean, both are extremes and then there's all that range in between.

Willow:

share with us how you, you know, help women discover this

Leah:

well, and is this just with women?

Willow:

touchless orgasm.

Jenn:

men of all genders can achieve this, but my focus is definitely working with women.

Leah:

okay,

Jenn:

And I do teach a course on it, which is live on my website right now. And so there's kind of three components. So the first is that sensitization. So we spend some time really tuning in to what do I actually feel inside of my pussy? Like what pleasure can I feel? Um, and we work on some, you know, squeezes, some vaginal exercises to sort of like build that, that suppleness and that sensitivity. And then we work on actually pleasure building, like connecting with the pleasure and circulating it and being able to bring it to orgasm. And that's where kind of like the body and the pleasure connect. And then I find there needs to be that mind piece because when people start for the first time working with their pleasure and working in this, you know, more intentional way. Stuff comes up. So they uncover all these beliefs that they have about what they, you know, my body needs to look this way. Um, I had a client recently, she's like, yeah, I was doing all these practices. It was going really good. And she's like, and then this voice popped in and said, I hate you. It's like, okay, so, so we also have the mind piece to deal with that stuff that comes up so that it's really a holistic approach and it is I think a life skill that you have this new way to get to pleasure and you can access it anytime you want. Or if you want to go get a pounding, then you put it aside, right? Like you have everything. You have all the options. Yeah.

Leah:

How do you coach someone who's had that encounter? Like this, the critical voice comes and says, I hate you. You're, maybe you're doing this all wrong. You're worthless. You're stupid. You're fat. You're ugly. All the, all those voices that I know I have.

Jenn:

Yeah. Well, we all have them.

Leah:

how, how do you coach them to manage that?

Jenn:

We, we don't, I don't get to do a lot of it inside of the course. It's just too individuals. So we kind of, um, there's some kind of, More generalized practices to sort of dig into that and to kind of just put it away and recognize that that comes from somewhere outside of ourselves and Where does it come from? Sometimes I'm not even sure if where it comes from is relevant. It's what do we do with it? Like, can we empower another point of view about what my body looks like? Can we empower another belief about pleasure not being bad? It doesn't make me a slut. It doesn't mean I'm going to hell. If it's in a one on one session, then we can really dig under that a little bit more and get more, um, underneath it. And is it, what's going on underneath that? And again, then we often use these pleasure practices to sort of bring that out and like release it. I find pleasure practices are a really great way to like release all of that negative inner critic garbage. garbage that they're

Willow:

saying to us All the, all the pleasure pushes the garbage out. There's no room for it anymore.

Jenn:

Yeah. A hundred percent. Um,

Willow:

Okay, so, tell us, do you have any, um, like, a case study stories,

Leah:

Yeah. Like miracle

Willow:

own story, like before and after?

Leah:

Yeah, who were you before? Who are you now?

Jenn:

If we want to go to way back who I was before, I was, man, I remember before I got coaching and I went on my own journey of sexual discovery, like reading some of these things like women are often numb and women are disconnected. And I was like, fuck you. No, I'm not. That's not trans. You're just trying to make yourself look amazing. And then I started like doing this work. And I'm like, Oh, fuck. Oh, fuck. That was.

Leah:

yeah

Jenn:

Hmm.

Leah:

am numb!

Willow:

they're talking about. Oh yeah, that numbness, that pain, that, yeah.

Jenn:

Yeah. And I think for me, um, this connection with my sexuality, uh, not necessarily limited to touchless orgasm, but finding all the different pathways for me personally, that I wanted to explore, explore around my pleasure and my orgasm, what was possible that just led to a massive opening in my life in general. Um. And I had this moment with a coach, um, before, back in November, and, uh, we were supposed to be accessing, like, difficult emotions, and I was like, I can't access, like, I can't access them right now. I should feel scared. I should feel anxious. I should feel da da da da da. I'm like, but those aren't present, so yay me. I've got it. I've got all this. And so we decided to work with joy, and of course, you can see the universe getting ready to slap me in the face, right? So we're working with Joy because that's what was available, available to me and she dug and took me down and we got underneath that and not 10 minutes later, I'm sobbing on my living room floor because I had uncovered this massive piece of unworthiness, this deep, deep unworthiness that I had. I never knew is there and that my ego wouldn't allow me to consider that I had. Like I would have said to you, No, I have great self esteem. Uh, I don't have self worth issues. I'm deserving of everything. But once I started doing this work and being open to diggling into myself, I was like, Holy shit. And then it was like this massive click, like I look back at my life and I can see so many decisions that I made that were a direct result of that unworthiness. And I wouldn't have gotten there, I wouldn't have gotten to that place without the sexual exploration. I think they're so connected, I don't think we can separate our sexuality out from the spiritual, out from who we are, out from like the deepest parts of ourselves. I think The sexuality is a gateway and it's, if you want massive transformative change, work on your pleasure, work on your orgasm, work on your sexuality, like, cracks everything open.

Willow:

I just love that. I love that you're speaking to this and that you're sharing your personal story. Thank you for being vulnerable. I just, the unworthiness piece is so not individual. It is fucking collective. It's in every single yoni on the planet at some degree, at some level, somewhere deep inside. And the the only way to, you know, uproot it is to go there and, you know, and love this story of like, I couldn't find those, those like negative emotions. So we just started with joy. Like that's it. You just start with whatever you can

Leah:

start with what's true in this moment

Willow:

And you go and you dig and you go and it's so helpful to have somebody else take you through a process because you can't see yourself, your eye can't see itself.

Leah:

Well, you can't see your subconscious. You can't see that which is not conscious yet. So here you are, you're sitting, you're like, I can't resource it. I can't feel it. It's not here in this moment, and it feels inauthentic to try to force it. So I love to, I echo what Willow is saying. It's like, you start with where you're at. Okay, let's work with joy. And then you start to go into all the things that That aren't joy as you're trying to hold on to joy those things start to arise and there's a subconscious right there Now you've got access to it. And our job is to make what is not conscious conscious and you got to have a starting point And I think that that was really great of your coach to meet you there.

Willow:

I'm curious, too, like, where you're at with that journey, because it's not like one moment. Okay, let me reclaim my worthiness, you know? It's layered, and it takes the time that it takes to claim that.

Jenn:

Yeah, definitely. Although, I will say that it did feel like a stick of dynamite was thrown in there, and a lot of shit blew out, so,

Willow:

It was a big moment.

Jenn:

it was a big, like, I sat, in that session, like, after I, you know, we completed the session, like, I just sat, I don't even know how long I sat there for, I was like, I can't believe, like, I was in shock, because it was, like, Something that I had like encased, right? I was like, I can't allow myself to feel unworthiness, so I'm just gonna encase it and pretend it's not there, right? So that moment like blew that off and then I had to sit there with like, I, this

Leah:

my denial.

Jenn:

a thing, yeah, yeah! Not only the unworthiness but like, How deeply I had tricked myself and fooled myself about it. Like that was another,

Willow:

A layer.

Jenn:

that was a piece too. So I, I, I do practices like inside of my meditations to get down into that unworthiness. And I sort of just into it almost. And so there's that deliberate work and also sort of just kind of like simmering in the background of my daily life. It's like, am I not doing this because I don't feel worthy? It's like, so now I check in with it when I'm making decisions, especially in my business. It's like, hmm, am I not, am I not reaching out to these people because I, I, I'm sure that they won't want to talk to me.

Willow:

Mm

Jenn:

If that's why I'm doing it, I do it. It's like, that's the

Willow:

Ah, you

Jenn:

up in a real way. Yeah. Yeah. So, so there's, there are layers to it, definitely in terms of how you interact with it from here on out, but in terms of like the actual unworthiness, like, I fucking mined a lot of that shit out.

Leah:

right.

Willow:

Good. Well done. Oh my God. It's just such a journey. I've had it recently, another deeper layer come to the surface. You know, I'm just like, wow, God, I thought I did all the work I needed to do with this thing.

Leah:

be here? I feel I already did this piece. I

Willow:

It's just I feel like it's coming up for a lot of people right now I don't know if y'all are like having your finger on the pulse of the energy of the universe and those times and everything But man this piece around like what what am I really deserving of what am I really worthy of and... if you truly truly believe that you are worthy of of everything then there should be nothing keeping you from having everything

Leah:

Well, one of the things I'm exploring is, okay, unworthiness is here. I must like being unworthy. What if I can kink out on my unworthiness? So there's another way of alchemizing the thing that's there. And it's like, God, you know, it keeps coming back and to kind of go, well, if it keeps on coming back, I'm getting off on it somehow. So what if I could take that next, I'm really curious about going, where can I get even more honest with this? And I was reading, um, Existential Kink, just listening to it yesterday. And, and she tells a story of, um, an example of this is this young guy who's You know, just has a hard time holding down a job. Why he keeps on getting fired, you know? And then he's got to go move back in with his parents and he feels like such a fucking loser Like why is it that I can't seem to hold on to a job? I'm never gonna it's like failure to launch over and over and over again back in with my parents But when he really started to kind of go I must like it. Why do I like it? He started to Discover. Oh, I love being taken care of And there's something about going back home and being with my parents and really enjoying that I get to be taken care of for a little while. So instead of hating myself for the fact that I got fired again, what if I just own, I kind of love living with my parents, I love being taken care of. And when he really started, decided to get off on that, something changed and it got, something got completed. And there was an alchemical shift when you stopped to fight it and go, okay, this doesn't mean I'm not unworthy. I'm going to accept whatever this subconscious part of myself that wants to keep on saying, this is why you're unworthy. Instead, just go towards the thing that looks like proof. Go into it fully. Kink out on it for however long you need to until you realize, okay, I actually, this isn't happening anymore. And suddenly now you've got a job and you're, you keep it and you're living on your own. And, oh, by the way, here's another raise. Here's another raise. Here's another raise. Until. So, fuck, here's your next layer of poverty mentality, and now come to find out why do you love poverty. You must really enjoy it. And the whole premise is this idea of, look at all the fucked up shit that happens in the world. Right, we got rape, we got war, we've got destruction, we've got mutilation, we've got torture, we've got all this really fucked up shit. God must be a sadist. God must really get off on this shit. And I think there's something about that lens to me is so refreshing because we don't, we're not in the why, why me? Why them? Why this? And if we can just shift and it's not a big lens, you don't have to take it seriously, but take it, kink it out a little bit. And I feel like we find our sense of humor. I feel like we find a sense, a new, fresh perspective. We, it changes how we hate ourselves and how we're down on ourselves. And this is only happening because I suck. Um, I don't know. I don't know why that seems compelling to me right now, but I think that there's something about the subconscious that gets to be danced with. And the other thing I like about it is when you do that hard shit, there might be an orgasm waiting for you at the end of it. You know, if you can kink out on your greatest fear, You know, if I can, if I can find a way to, to, to face that fear and make it kinky, then my reward going through the eye of that needle is hopefully a big ass orgasm, or if it's not an orgasm, it's a cathartic release. It's a, it's some sort of cathartic letting go. And I've been sort of dabbling with this work more from the Tantra lens, Jenn, where it's, where we bring beauty to sex. In order to have that cathartic release. We surround someone with so much beauty and love that whatever is in love gets to come up to the surface, which is a beautiful, gentle way of doing it. But now I'm curious, what more can you get at if you're doing it from this kinkier, dirtier side lens? So that all being said, what resonates with you? What doesn't resonate with you hearing that?

Jenn:

Oh, I think, I mean, I, I love me some kink, although it's been a while. Um, but I think there's definitely something About going into whatever piece it is, and you know, a shame piece has been something that I've been working with myself too, and it's like, okay, if I can, exactly what you said, if I can get really down and up close with my shame, and like, fuck it, basically, like, literally, like, have a little shame gasm, a release, there is something that comes from, from looking at like, those parts of yourselves that you, that you fucking hate, right? And that's why we hate, that's why we sometimes hate fuck people in the real world, right? Like, If you can find that part of yourself and literally fuck it, have an orgasm with it, look at it and just engage with it and be like, I am fucking here for it. I'm here for whatever this dark and deep and dirty piece of me is. Like, it's part of me. Let's fucking go. Something, something comes out of it. Something positive comes out of it. And sometimes you can just, and I found like, I've also released the shame part a little bit. Cause it's like, what's underneath that? Fundamentally, shame is scared of not being loved. Right. So. You know, I look at the things I've been ashamed of recently and I'm like, well, I know my parents are always going to love me. Like right now I'm starting on a third career. So finances is a big thing for me, but it's like,

Leah:

Yeah.

Jenn:

my parents are going to love me. They love me. They know I'm a little bit broke right now. They still love me. My friends still love, like, okay, like there's, that's been released,

Willow:

mm

Jenn:

right? Like, it's just, and also been able to, you know, being in a situation, like I said, kind of, starting this coaching career, um, having a little bit less money. I was forced into a little bit earlier than I wanted to financially, but, um. Also, out of it, I've really learned so much more compassion, like, this is, like, I had forgotten, because when I was working in film, I was making a pretty decent living, and I haven't worked for, you know, a year and a half, so that's part of where the tightness in the finances are coming from right now. But it's like, oh, I, I've never had to, like, choose the cheaper Ichiban noodles at the Walmart before, which I just did yesterday, but I'm like, hmm, hmm. There are people who live, who live their whole lives like this, right? Who have, and people, and we all have these moments where we have to make hard decisions because we are not quite in abundance the way that we are, and it's like, I need to remember this. And remember that everybody has these moments and you

Leah:

think that's a real way to go. Fuck you. Shame is to have a shame. gsm. I mean, I just think that, that I, you just coined a new word. Shame gams. From now on, folks, like, we're gonna fuck that shame up. And it's going to get dirty and it's gonna feel good, you

Jenn:

yeah, and

Leah:

an orgasm from it. I just, that's brilliant.

Willow:

And the things that we feel shame about, like finances for sure is a big one, our sexuality, our values, but

Leah:

dollars, value, yeah,

Willow:

so these big things that are so important in our lives, like our ability to hold a job, our ability to hold a relationship, like these things that make us really feel like a failure, they're, they're such, you know, building blocks of our actual lives. So if we can go into the feeling and go get closer to it, you know, I always take people through a somato emotional release process, which is totally different than fucking your shame, but I think this like, this idea of like, you know, even bringing the, the touchless orgasm into it, like how could I like imagine my shame about whatever it is like above me and I'm just, or underneath me, or whatever position I want to be in to like actually make love and, and fuck that thing.

Leah:

Yeah, well, you know, I kind of think of it like, I'm like coming to terms and being more out loud and not being secretive by like, there's a part of me that gets off on so called being used. Like, Use me, you dirty little slut. Yeah, use me. Like take, take your pleasure from me. And for some reason that creates a pleasure loop for me. Now, I don't know that that would be true in all circumstances. I just know that there is an element to that energy that I find erotic. And it's also something that I kind of feel ashamed of because I'm not supposed to like that. In fact, I spent 20 years trying to heal that and never allow myself to be used again. Because it felt like it was so wrong, come to find out, actually it's a huge turn on for me. And I could only access that now, because I'm in a position to not really ever need to be literally used again. I'm not in a vulnerable, victimizable position and energy because of how worthless I have felt. You know, during my formative years, that I can actually feel like I can co create a lot of hot sex using that principle because it's just a scene. It's not really reality. You know, there's still these ways with which I'm cultivating those experiences where I'm, might be getting used, but there's adoration, there's devotion. There's some sort of like, there's containment that allows for that to become a really rich part of, like a, like a coming home. There's a part of me that wants to get off on that, but I'm not putting myself in dangerous situations. Necessarily for that to occur. I just I mean I look at this and I when I think about as you were thinking about Jenn Looking back on your life, right and seeing where you where you started and how you come through I'm still kind of going man. I am 25 years into being a sexuality expert and I am having so much fun Continuing to explore the different corners of my psyche and how opposing they are. You know, like, one thing is fear and filled with dread and shame and guilt, and now the other, now it's just opened up and it's filled with arousal and erotica and potency and creative energy and ecstasy and new heights of, of pleasure.

Jenn:

But isn't that amazing that you

Leah:

I

Jenn:

Is it an amazing that you still have all these like corners to explore? Like,

Leah:

know.

Jenn:

great.

Willow:

I mean, that's the whole thing. The, the expansion, the Tantra, the expansion of, of these tools, of these avenues and these, um, you know, paths that we get to walk down. Jenn, I'm so curious for you having a history in film. I don't know what you did exactly in the film industry, but I'm just curious if you, like, where do you see yourself? See sort of like all your many years and different careers and this new path of, of coaching and helping women with their sexuality. Is there any sort of like at this time in your, in your process, are you seeing any kind of like, Oh, I could use these skills from that previous career and this and that? Like, teach women how to make dirty, not, they don't have to be, they can be dirty or clean, doesn't matter, but, you know, videos of themselves so that they can actually see, like, how beautiful they are when they're in eroticism. I feel like that's one of the biggest things is women are, you know, we're, we're raised on pornography, we're raised on advertising, and we're raised on, if you look this way, if you sound this way, if you move this way, that means you're sexy. And what I'm, Leah and I are constantly, are teaching women is like, If you feel sexy, you'll look sexy. It doesn't matter your age, your weight, your anything, your color doesn't matter. Like if you're feeling it, that's what's hot. And so, you know, I'm often teaching women like, Have one of these sexual exploration practices with yourself, but have a mirror somewhere nearby so you can glance in it sometimes. Not necessarily watch the whole thing, but it is fun to like make videos of yourself and be like, Oh yeah, remember I was really feeling so sexy in that moment. And look at how hot I look.

Jenn:

That's so funny. You mentioned the mirror. One of, um, my practices that I look back on, it was doing some, uh, it was inside of my coursework and we were supposed to do something in front of a mirror and I had dimmed the lights. I had a playlist on and I was like, okay, I gotta like look at myself in the mirror. And then I was like, Hi, girl! Fuck yeah! And then, and then I found myself doing, um, and I do, I haven't pole danced in a long time, but I love pole dance. Um, so I think I, I, at that point I still had heels. So I was like, oh, I'm feeling this practice. So I went and got my heels on and I just danced for myself in the mirror. And I still think back at that. I was like, Fuck, that was good. Like,

Willow:

Yeah.

Jenn:

like, yeah, yeah. So,

Willow:

And I love, you know, the, the fact is like, we, we have access to that anywhere we go in the world, anytime we want, we just have to do it. And it's so easy not to do it. So easy not to, but

Leah:

I know, right? You really do have to show up for yourself. And it's like, well, we'll come up with any excuse to not.

Willow:

Oh man, it's so

Leah:

Um, you know, kind of coming back to non touch orgasms. do you, like, could you give our audience a sort of a path forward, some action steps that if they wanted to experience that, how do they get started?

Jenn:

yeah, I think to get started, um, there are some really simple, um, introductory practices that anybody could do. And it really is, there's, if focusing on, um, the pleasure building and the body piece that I was mentioning, if you just, you know, stake out some privacy from wherever you are and, and create a little, a little, little ritual.

Leah:

Celestial palette. Yes.

Jenn:

Um, and so I find, uh, it really helps to have your legs bent and you can butterfly your legs open. That helps with the movement. And as you kind of just move them in and out, like you can so bring in whatever movement feels good natural and good to you. Like you might be a kegel, have the legs, um, you know, butterflying open and closed. And just with that movement, you then bring your awareness to your pussy and just, you have to listen to your body, right? Like what is there? What is alive? Keeping in mind that numbness is a sensation. Numbness is an experience. So a lot of women will experience that at first and that's totally fine. If that is the case, you just breathe into it and you imagine what the pleasure would feel like. So you just, you lay there in your bed, have your legs moving, opening and closing, and you're just breathing into that pleasure, connecting with it and just taking a breath and noticing what you feel. And once you can connect with that, then you can get into like, you know, moving it through your breath, circulating it through your body. But just that quiet few moments of Really listening to your body and feeling it for that pleasure. That's the start.

Leah:

I like that. Yeah. I think we're kind of bringing that mind body connection to Feeling the vulva, feeling the pussy internally, just like bringing your attention there helps create a neural pathway between your brain and your genitals, which is going to strengthen the signal that they're connected and they're, they need to be connected in order for you to feel stronger and stronger sensation. So just being present with it, because we're just sitting on it all day long. You know, we're just sitting on that pussy, not thinking about it, not wondering about it. It doesn't roll through our mind. It's like, we are actually ignoring a huge part of, of something that's actually, I think has so not only just so much beauty, but it gives us a renewable access to something called pleasure, which gives us beautiful brain chemistry. It gives us a sense of wellbeing. It can flood us with lots of really important, healthy hormones. It helps increase our immune system. Like, but if we're never thinking about it, if we're ignoring it, you know, then we don't get to strengthen those wires. And I love this idea of butterflying. The, the, the thighs open and close. I'm totally going to practice that. That's a new ding, ding, ding. I like the idea of undulations

Willow:

I was talking Jenn before we started. I was like, sometimes I have moongasms, like when I'm out in the hot tub. Cause I'm naked and I'm in the warm water and I can see the moon up there and it's so easy to butterfly and move around when you're in the water. And you can just let the moon penetrate your yoni, the rays of the moonlight.

Leah:

yeah. Or the sunlight. I have a pool so I can just bare myself to the sun, but there'll be some

Willow:

Okay, Jenn, where people find you and your program?

Jenn:

Uh, I'm at, yep, my website, Www.Jennnwodtke.Com, J E N N W O D T K E

Willow:

Awesome. Yay.

Jenn:

Yeah.

Leah:

And tell us about your course. Okay,

Jenn:

six weeks long, it's currently a live container. and we go through that mind piece, we go through the body piece, and we go through the pleasure building piece, and we put it all together. There's live practices in it as well, so you can have me guide you live, um, and work on building that pleasure. And yeah, I'm also available for one on one coaching if anybody wants to, um, fuck the shit out of their shame.

Willow:

Love

Jenn:

I'm, I'm your gal.

Leah:

cool, cool.

Willow:

get some pointers on videography.

Jenn:

Uh,

Willow:

Jenn's path forward, but I think it would be cool.

Jenn:

I do too, but not my wheelhouse. I can barely, I can barely get my ring light set up. So

Willow:

Okay, alright, alright.

Leah:

yeah, you know, that's interesting. I have never, um, I will do things in front of the mirror all day long.

Willow:

You've never made a video? You've never made a video of

Leah:

I mean, reluctantly, kind of, because someone wanted to take a picture or a quick video of some sort of action, but I never

Willow:

Just to watch yourself as a yogi, I've long recorded myself doing asanas, and I always learn like, Oh, drop that hip a little bit more, lift that, lengthen, da da da da, and then my asanas get better.

Leah:

I shall challenge myself. Yes. Hold me accountable, Willow, this weekend, I'll let

Willow:

I want to see the video.

Leah:

All right. Well, thanks everybody for joining us. Please stay tuned because up next we have the dish and you don't want to miss us. Dish it out with Leah and Dr. Willow. Thank you so much, Jenn. Um, kiss Mexico for us and, uh, and we'll, we'll hopefully have you back on the show.

Jenn:

Thank you so much for having me.

Willow:

Thanks, Jenn.

Announcer:

Now, our favorite part, the dish.

Leah:

I think the name of the game is fucking shame, honey.

Willow:

I love it. I mean, it is that real existential kink. If y'all haven't read that book, it's phenomenal, so definitely pick it up. Um, yeah, to actually, uh, fetishize the things that you don't want to look at, what you resist looking at. It's a very famous old adage, and it's true. And, um, you know, on the other side of resistance is surrender. And if we willingly go through that resistance to that place of surrender, 10 times out of 10, what we see is like phenomenal beauty, evolution, evolution, and just a newer version of ourselves that we didn't know was there, or we did know was there, but we were afraid to access.

Leah:

Yeah, I think I'm gonna kink out on some failure.

Willow:

Yes, I'm gonna kink out on the defeated one.

Leah:

yeah, it's like time to like, let's just fucking get dirty with some failure. Because, boy, that has been a passenger in my car for a while, and I'm, I am gonna love it up. I'm gonna fuck it up. Um, I'm gonna see what happens. Like, it's time for me to test some of this. And what I think is really interesting about what she's saying in this book is, it's the missing piece to doing all the manifestation work is people try to jump to manifestation But they're they got to get to that being the

Willow:

You got his shadow. Yes,

Leah:

that shit And then that's when the manifestation in the in the boards and the collages all start to come

Willow:

yeah, it's the same concept as the Samadha Emotional Release. Like, let's not, you know, spiritually bypass over the fact that you're

Leah:

But what's different from the spiritual? I think somatic release than this is this is really about getting pleasure from it. Not just

Willow:

It is. No, totally. It's very different in so many ways, but it's the same concept of like, let's not gloss over it. Like, let's go deeper into it. Let's get closer to it and actually look at it and get to know it and figure out what medicine it has for us because it has something in there that we need to learn or it wouldn't be there. We wouldn't care. It wouldn't affect our psyches.

Leah:

and you know, we don't talk about these non touch orgasms, but one of the things that I hear, um, a lot of women ask me, um, is like, are these fucking Tantra girls, like, what they're not, what they can just have orgasms without a touch, is that just bullshit or what? Like, because I have been trying and I've been working on it and I'm getting absolutely nowhere. And this, it just seems like a bunch of hooey or like a bunch of sort of like statusizing. Oh, you're so evolved because you can have these sort of ethereal orgasms. And like, I really totally get where they're coming from. And, and so like, A, if, if you if you sort of have this deep longing to know what that's like and you feel like you can't reach it, we have to drop our attachment to reaching it. Like, if somehow reaching it is going to make you more of a Tantra goddess, people do that with the female ejaculation too. Like, I'll be more of a Tantrica if I can just squirt. And it's like, no, no, that, looking at it from that lens is what actually keeps it away

Willow:

It's that resistance piece again.

Leah:

Because it's loaded with judgment. It's like, it means this if I can't have it, versus going, I'm just really curious, let me just stay in like, a non attached, curiosity, playfulness. You know, trust,

Willow:

and just, just see. It's like, I think it's, you know, even having an intention can be nice sometimes, but not to have too much tension around that intention, you know, just like, yeah, that'd be

Leah:

the, the intention. You can't hold on to it trying to make it manifest. You have to kind of give it a voice, bring it, give that voice somehow or writing it down gives it life, but then you have to give it up to the universe, you know. It's like, here's my will, but your will be done,

Willow:

yeah, that's right. Yeah, it's that really letting go into the unknown. Like you don't know what's on the other side

Leah:

Yeah, and practices. Like, like the practice that she's suggesting, they really do work. But again, if you're doing them from a gripped place or like from a really rigid compartmentalized, I

Willow:

I'm going to make this happen. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that doesn't work.

Leah:

If you're doing it methodically, you're doing it from your

Willow:

You gotta do it from the feminine, not from the

Leah:

got to do it. Just let your body dance. Don't worry about the choreography. Just, yeah. Mm hmm.

Willow:

Yeah. That was a fun conversation with Jenn.

Leah:

yeah. Thanks, Jenn. Thanks, Willow. Thanks everybody. Please leave your comments. Tell us your stories of non touch

Willow:

touch.

Leah:

touch orgasms because we want to know how you found yourself there. What works, what hasn't worked,

Willow:

and share this with anyone, any woman who you know is like, you know, a little bit more in that like, oh, come on, that's not a real thing.

Leah:

Yeah, and I want to hear from you guys too. Like, have you experienced your partner having non touch orgasms? Was that arousing for you? Have you had a non touch orgasm? Because I know there's lots of interesting

Willow:

Yeah, because maybe we want to have you on our podcast if you have.

Leah:

That's right. So remember we have a hotline, uh, that you can call in and leave us a message. You can find that on our website and you can find it in the show notes on every single app that features our podcast. And we bid you adieu. Love, love, love.

Announcer:

Thanks for tuning in. This episode was hosted by Tantric Sex Master Coach and Positive Psychology Facilitator, Leah Piper, as well as by Chinese and Functional Medicine Doctor and Taoist Sexology Teacher, Dr. Willow Brown. Don't forget, your comments, likes, subscribes and suggestions matter. Let's realize this new world together.

People on this episode

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Dr. Willow Brown

Host
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Leah Piper

Host
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Jenn Wodtke

Guest