The Sex Reimagined Podcast

Leah & Willow: SEX vs DRUGS? | The Brain Chemistry Battle - Which Creates More Natural Euphoria? | #111

• Leah Piper, Dr. Willow Brown • Season 3 • Episode 111

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Ever wondered how sex and drugs affect your brain chemistry? Join Dr. Willow and Leah Piper as they dive into an honest, shame-free exploration of natural highs and chemical enhancers. From the science of orgasms to conscious sexuality, discover how different substances interact with your body's natural pleasure systems.


EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS

  • Natural vs. Chemical Highs: Understanding how your body creates its own pleasure chemicals through sex and how different substances can enhance or interfere
  • Conscious Sex Practices: Introduction to Tantra, Taoism, and mindful approaches that can create drug-like euphoria naturally
  • Safety First: Essential guidelines for consent, testing, and harm reduction
  • Relationship Tips: How to maintain intimacy and spark without relying on external enhancers

❗Note: This episode contains mature content and educational discussions about substances. Not medical or legal advice.


EPISODE LINKS



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THE MALE GSPOT & PROSTATE MASTERCLASS. This is for you if… You’ve heard of epic anal orgasms, & you wonder if it’s possible for you too. Buy Now. Save 20% Coupon PODCAST20.

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LAST 10x LONGER. If you suffer from premature ejaculation, you are not alone, master 5 techniques to cure this stressful & embarrassing issue once and for all. Buy Now. Save 20% Coupon: PODCAST20.

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Announcer:

Welcome to the Sex Reimagined Podcast, where sex is shame free and pleasure forward. Let's get into the show.

Leah:

Welcome to Sex Reimagined, everybody. Dr. Willow and Leah Piper here, and we just have a special thanks for all of you subscribers, everyone who comments, everyone who likes the show, just thank you so much. We're getting more visibility, and we really appreciate that, and please keep it coming. If you're a new time listener, welcome, and please spread the word about Sex Reimagined. We can't wait to dick dick. We can't wait to dick in, Dr. Willow. We can't wait to dig in.

Willow:

Well, I wouldn't mind a little dicking in, I'll tell you that right now. I've been moving and it's been a little bit stressful, so I could use a little stress relief. But, um, but hey, now, yeah, please do share. You know, I think when you actually push the share button and then send it to your friend on these episodes, that really helps our algorithm. Bolster up quite a bit. So we love it when you do that. And today we're going to be talking about something really interesting. We found a lot of people are actually researching this and looking this up What is the difference or how do these two different avenues of ecstatic experiences work on your brain chemistry. So sex versus drugs what is better or or what how are they different and How should you utilize them? So we're gonna spend a little bit of time talking about what happens to your brain on sex and what happens to your brain on drugs. And then we're gonna go into What happens when you blend them together on all the different kinds of fun chemicals to play with out there. And disclaimer for all of those of you who are like, drugs are bad, we are not telling you to go out and try all these drugs, we are not saying, like, definitely you need these drugs in order to

Leah:

we're not

Willow:

sexual pathways in your body. But we thought we'd bring more. Yeah, we just thought we'd bring more information to you, just so that you, again, it's about reimagining what's possible here, and so, just so you know what, what there is, what's available out there in the world.

Leah:

Yeah, and I would also just clarify that we're talking about party drugs. We're not talking about pharmaceutical drugs. Uh, we're talking about the things that people use in order to alter their state of consciousness. And from a Tantra perspective, we are altering our state of consciousness, primarily using breath, meditation, yantra, chanting, and the experience of lovemaking, the experience of sex, because that releases a tremendous amount of chemicals, uh, into the system that create a sense of euphoria. As do many of these party drugs, and it's why people tend to get addicted to them, because these things typically feel good, as does sex. In fact, I always think of sex as like the best cocktail. And I would say that, especially in relationship to falling in love, because when you fall in love, you get this incredible cocktail of wellbeing because you've got all these chemicals being released from the brain, like testosterone and opioids and dopamine and serotonin and, um, I'm missing, oxytocin was the one I was thinking of. And, uh, there's really no better cocktail out there in the world, as far as I'm concerned. You can't replicate that.

Willow:

No, you can't. And that's why people do get addicted to sex as well, because it's like, I, you know, when you're, when you're in a really good love making scenario with someone that you have a great connection with, it's a wonderful, amazing little vacation from all the stressors of life, you know, from all the input that we're constantly being bombarded with, all the distractions that we're constantly trying to get through all day long. And when you can put yourself in a little bubble with your favorite lover or your beloved partner It just gives you a new perspective. It's like pushing the reset button. In fact, all day long when you're rushing around and you're like, shit, I'm five minutes late for my thing and I gotta get over here and I gotta get this thing done before I get to that thing. All that time, you're, you're dropping cortisol. Your adrenal glands are leaking cortisol. And so cortisol is the stress hormone. It's the hormone that makes your nervous system get even tighter and more constricted and more, um, rigid and then your mind is like, has less capacity to deal with all the things that you're in the middle of and, um, one of the best, quickest ways to flush all that cortisol from your bloodstream is to have a big fat orgasm. So you know, if you can do it in a prolonged, sensorial, delicious, delightful way with another human being, even better, you're gonna get a deeper, more connective release of that oxytocin. And as oxytocin floods your bloodstream, that cortisol gets pushed out.

Leah:

I think, too, it's important to create a distinction between sex addiction and love addiction. Um, and then there is porn addiction. And so all, these are all three, they have commonalities, but they're three separate impulses. With sex addiction it's really less about love. Where love addiction, it's really about, um, oxytocin. It's that bonding chemical. And it puts us oftentimes into a state of, Limerence. And limerence is like this obsessive, compelling reaction to whomever you're obsessing about. It's not, it might give you the false feeling that you're in love, but really what you're in love with is the feeling of being in love. It doesn't always have to do with the person who you're projecting

Willow:

Yeah.

Leah:

desire for a very strong dopamine hit. It's like, give me another hit, give me another hit. Now when it comes to porn addiction, you're looking for the same dopamine hit. And so you have this reaction between cortisol and dopamine where the stress response is giving you this chemical urge. I need my fix. I need my fix. And so when you have an orgasm and you're seeing all this sensory overload, you're getting hit after hit of dopamine and that's what you keep on chasing. Um, with sex addiction, it can be a lot of high risk behavior where you're oftentimes having sex with multiple partners, it's oftentimes connected to secrecy behind maybe a spouse's back, or you're just doing some really high risk sexual behavior that could create some consequences towards your health, and it becomes very obsessive. Again, cortisol, and again, you're looking for that state change, you're looking for that moment of relief, which is a big dopamine rush. That allows your system to have this moment of well being before life again crashes in on you and then you go reaching again for another dopamine hit. And, and so much like every other addiction out there, we tend to be chasing state changes to get out of whatever it is that is boring us or stressing us out or thoughts and feelings that, um, feel like suffering. And so we're reaching for that dopamine, that feeling of well being, to have respite from whatever's stressing you out.

Willow:

It's actually really brilliant, you know, the way our brains work and the way we, we know where to go to get out of a state change, you know, real, real quickly. Like, let me go have an orgasm. Like, let me go to pornography. Let me go to my sexual partner. Let me go to food. Let me go to social media. You get dopamine hits from all these different places, you know? And so it's really kind of amazing if you, if you would zoom out and like look at it from a bird's eye view of like how intelligent, our bodies and our brains are like with their, with their communication between each other like, hey, I got too much cortisol in me, do something about it, you know, state change me. Um, and I think that when we, when we can use sexuality in a healthy way, especially Tantric sexual practices, Taoist sexual practices, or even just conscious sexual practices where we're bringing more awareness, more, um, placing all of your, your prefrontal cortex in your hands as you touch your lover's ass. Like, it's completely different than grabbing your lover's ass. It's just, it's more of a perspective shift than sometimes a doing shift. Although for some people, it's gotta be a doing shift as well. But, um, you know, when we can, when we can experience those deeper unified places, within in love making from a sober state. What I think is so powerful about it is you feel like you are on medicine plant medicine. We're using plant medicine a lot these days in California. So you feel like you're on some kind of drug, you are going on a journey. You can have these releases of traumas that your body's been storing your whole life. You can have these breakthroughs of pleasure and ecstasy that, um, that you may have never experienced before, or maybe you've only experienced them when you were trying ecstasy, you know, on a dance, at a party or something like that. So, what I think is so powerful about it too is that you're, you're sober, you're in a sober state. So you remember it more later the next day. And I feel like it has a deeper impact on your nervous system. Plus it gives you, um, the confidence to know that you can create a state change without a substance outside of you. You know, and that's the, the book that I wrote is sex as medicine. Can we use sexual energy as, as a medicinal force inside of our own bodies, and the answer is yes, we can. But it does require, um, skill, learning how to do it, and actually putting it on your calendar and doing

Leah:

practicing it. And I would add kink to that as well. I think a lot of people are um, experiencing very similar Um, sensations of awe and impact and pleasure and cathartic release in all these mediums, whether you're practicing Tantra, whether you're practicing Kink, whether you're practicing any kind of conscious training. Where you are expanding your awareness combined with intention to foster a deep experience that often ends in some kind of transformation, and this is not something that we get in the way of training in regular life in America.

Willow:

In sex ed, in junior high, we didn't, we didn't get any of

Leah:

how does anyone even learn any of this stuff? stuff. And it's part of the reason why we have this podcast is because we want to help people know that there's lots of ways to expand your consciousness and your pleasure and your experience of intimacy that really generates a feeling of awe that brings you so deep into the present moment that your whole outlook on life changes. And we're also, and that's not to diminish all the regular wonderful sex out there, all the great quickies, all the great sort of junk food sex that I also love, you know, there's fine dining sex and there's also junk food sex and, um, we're, we embrace all of it, um, but for those of you who are really curious about expanding your consciousness, sexuality is a really cool thing to explore as you explore some of these other experiences like plant medicine journeys or, you know, the, the more common party drugs. Um, and, and I will certainly be sharing, as I'm sure Willow will be too, our own personal experiences. Now, these things aren't as, uh, they're not in my life the way they once were when I was younger. But I do have considerable experience playing and partying and exploring the realms not only as a party experience but also as a sexual experience where we look at these substances through the Tantric lens of sacraments. Just like you would experience the sacrament if you're Catholic and you go to partake on the Eucharist part of the ceremony or the, the service, there's a sacrament with which you, you take the body of Christ in the way of a wafer, and you drink the blood of Christ in the way of a sip of wine, you are actually taking something that's ordinary and making it extraordinary. And there's a way to honor these various substances as sacraments. That can also be very additive to the rituals that you may create of a sexual nature. But I think what's very important in the sharing of that is that you have way more experiences sober and you make those sacramental experiences very potent, very intentional, with a lot of conscious awareness about what you're putting into your body.

Willow:

Something that I feel like is really important Is really exciting for the brain is doing something new. You know, just doing something you've never done before. And that's one of the beautiful things about the tantric path. The Daoist path is there's always something that you've never done before to discover, to be curious about, to, um, co-create with a partner, or even if you're on your own, to just do by yourself. I still find things to do by myself that I've never done before. So it's always exciting and, um.

Leah:

It's so important, especially for long term relationships,

Willow:

Oh, yeah.

Leah:

a girl really gets stuck in the humdrum, and where you notice, wow, we haven't made love in a month, or wow, it's been three months, or wow, you know, I think we had sex on our anniversary last year. Um, and it's because we go into a routine, and so having something to look forward to, bringing new elements into your partnership, does, it adds that excitement, it gets you It makes you more present for the experience, too. I mean, I can't tell you how many times I've just had regular sex and I'm not

Willow:

And you're like, meh.

Leah:

but when I'm exploring something new, I have to concentrate. I have to bring my focus. I have to bring my attention. And I get there's so much that pays you back in those experiences. You get so much more payoff in the way of pleasure and in the way of like investing in your emotional capital with your partner versus just kind of, you know, okay, let's do it.

Willow:

Yeah, totally. Plus the dopamine reaction, the endorphin reaction through your bloodstream is just so much stronger. You know, and Leah and I are both at this juncture where it's like, well, let's start bringing in a little bit more kink. You know, let's start conscious kink and like, how can we like bridge the gap between tantra and kink? And, you know, it's like now we're trying things that we've never done before in a whole new sort of genre of sexuality.

Leah:

Yeah.

Willow:

It's really fun. It really, I know for you with your relationship, it's really like enlivened things quite a bit.

Leah:

Yeah, and I think, you know, one of the things that just, again, it brings more excitement. It's new, so it's focusing, it's forcing us to focus, therefore being more present. And I'm really like loving just exploring like little simple power dynamics. You know, it's like you don't have to like, you know, go to a dungeon and learn BDSM to spice up your sex life. But if you can learn one or two things If you can pull one or two ideas and start to think about, you know, what would this look like in my relationship to myself? Because some of these elements I've been doing just by myself and my own self pleasuring and I'm getting so much more, um, content to my experience. It's so much richer. The pleasure is so much deeper. Uh, it brings like a sense of excitement, you know, how like, you know, You know, you have an orgasm and it's pretty good, right? And you had a great time. You weren't expecting to have another orgasm that day. And then suddenly, like two hours later, you find yourself in a situation and you're having another orgasm and you're just like, Oh my God, how amazing that I, that I'm getting even more. And so I think sometimes these things can really surprise you that when you feel like, God, I struggled just to even have one. And then suddenly you're adding something new to your life and you're like, Oh my God, I had three orgasms. It's because it's new. And you're more sensitive to something that's a new sensation. It's not the same old, same old. So moving on from there, um, where do you want to go next? Do

Willow:

Let's talk a little, let's talk a little bit about just drugs on their own. So we've talked about like what, what sexuality can do for you chemically and for your brain. So let's talk about just what, you know, different drugs can do for you chemically, and for your, for your body, and for your brain, and the connection between them. Um, starting with the,

Leah:

start with the two most common that I think people start off at a younger age, which would be alcohol and pot.

Willow:

Yeah, definitely. You know, alcohol, I think one of the biggest draws to alcohol is it's, it's uninhibiting, right? It, it brings down your inhibitions. And so, that's why people do it when they go on a date, and they might want to have sex, but they also do it just to like, you know, be around their friends, and just to try to be more cool, and try to be more like, yeah. to be less inhibited and stuck in your head. And so alcohol really brings that, um, that forward. And one of the things though, I, I find for myself, it's like, I can't feel sex as much if I've had a lot to drink. Like maybe you have to, for me, like it has to be just a little bit, but if there's been like too many glasses of wine or too, too many cocktails, it's like, I just, yeah, I can't, I guess there's a lack of presence in it for me, um, with alcohol. I feel like frequency wise, alcohol is one of the lower frequency drugs out there to play with. And it's also one of the most addicting, and it's the worst for your liver, and your liver is your filter for your whole body and rules your endocrine system. So, you know, if you're doing alcohol all the time, it's over time going to erode your libido even more.

Leah:

Yeah, it's a depressant. I find tipsy sex really fun. Um, highly pleasurable, really joyful. Um, you know, sloppy drunk, not so much. Um, still can have a great time, but, um, I think tipsy sex is a lot more fun than drunk sex. And so just sort of knowing, you know, it's like having that one Yeah. Two glasses tops of some alcoholic beverage that just kind of loosens you up, puts you in a good mood. There is, for me, a sense of more presence. I'm less distracted. I'm not thinking about the stressors of life. I'm not going over the list. I'm really in the moment, in that tipsy

Willow:

In the tipsy sex. When you're one, yeah, I feel like two glasses is perfect for that. Yeah. Yeah.

Leah:

great. I think once you start getting into three, four, and above, um, and of course people have different tolerances. It's, it's unfocused and just in what you can visually see is unfocused, how you walk is unfocused, you know, it's like everything is, um,

Willow:

and slurry.

Leah:

blurry and, and you can't quite feel as much and a lot of men actually have a hard time with erectile function, um, when they have had too much to drink. And so it doesn't always end the way we hope when we're stumbling into each other and making out and feeling each other up and all those things. It can, doesn't always end in success.

Willow:

Mm hmm. I feel like also with alcohol, there can be like, sort of a, like, oh, God, what happened the

Leah:

What did I do?

Willow:

can be, you know, if you drink too much, there can be these brownouts or even blackouts of like, fuck, what, what happened, you

Leah:

had a lot of blackout sex and it doesn't feel good. The memories of that feel kind of icky and shameful. Um, Regretful, you can kind of not just have a physical hangover, but an emotional hangover. And I'm sure most people who are listening right now know exactly what we're talking about, because this is sort of the first, in our culture, alcohol is so normalized and, um, there's very easy access to it. So I think people have the most experience, um, with sex and alcohol.

Willow:

Yeah.

Leah:

Yeah. What about pot? Ooh.

Willow:

I was more into that than alcohol when I was a teenager. I just could never really understand why people would drink it. It tastes terrible. You know, it's taken me a long time to appreciate fine wine. Um,

Leah:

You grew up in California. I grew up in Michigan. Alcohol is very big and socially accepted in our cult, in the Michigan culture. It's like people, and you just look at all the universities there and all the binge drinking that goes on. I mean, teenagers are initiated in alcohol. They're not initiated in pot. Pot wasn't as easily accessible. But when I was coming of age, like it would be in California, um, although I started smoking when I was 15, so I certainly was able to get it. It was just easier to get alcohol, even though there was an age thing,

Willow:

yeah. Yeah, I mean, my peers were certainly drinking up a storm. I just personally was never that into it. But, um, but yeah, marijuana was my drug of choice. Still, I still dig a little sip of weed before I get frisky. Um, and I feel like, you know, Uh, you know, I wasn't using it sexually when I was younger, but I was really using it to kind of get into that euphoric state. You know, it works, marijuana works on your, uh, the cannabinoid receptors in your brain. So it really drops you into that more open, diffuse kind of sense of awareness. You have more access to your sensations. You're less in your head, more in your body. Generally, of course, it depends on what type of marijuana you're smoking and, or eating. And, um, And it can really, inside of a sexual experience, it can really enhance the, the sensorial sensations, like the, the way the fingers are gliding along the inner elbow can just be, that can be orgasmic in and of itself, you know, the way that the kissing is happening, if you've got a good kisser on your hands, you know, it can just be like ecstasy, it can be like other worldly, it can bring through visuals even, you know, I

Leah:

everything down, I think, so that you actually have the wherewithal to almost in its minutiae feel all these sensations.

Willow:

that's great. Yeah, that's exactly what it does. What about you? Where are you at with marijuana these days?

Leah:

Well, you know, we just interviewed Larissa, um, who was talking about her awakened experience and her sexuality having to do with marijuana and how it just takes her out of her head. And that being in her head was her biggest obstacle to feeling pleasure and to wanting to be sexual. Um, and so as she started to explore, um, pot, she was realizing, Oh my God, I can just drop into sensation. I can drop into my body. Um, and I was a very heavy pot smoker throughout my teens, 20s, and early 30s. And then my desire for it diminished greatly to the point where, oh, it started giving me anxiety and stress and discomfort. And marijuana was never something that I used as an aphrodisiac. Um, it just didn't, I don't know why I was, I was just, it's not like I would avoid it, but it wasn't something that I intentionally added. Um, sometimes marijuana would have an uplifting effect if I was already on other drugs. And then when I smoked a joint, there was something that happened there that might lead to a sexual, a deeper sexual experience, but it was never intentional. Um, And then just recently this past weekend, Matt was like, let's go check out one of those stores. Cause he also has a very anxiety response, um, to pot. And so one of the things that we discovered was, um, that CBD can help shift that feeling of cortisol running through the system. So if you combine CBD and THC, it can, it can have that counter effect for those of us who get anxiety. Now that did not work for Matt.

Willow:

Oh, it didn't?

Leah:

we bought some. Did not work for Matt, but it definitely worked for me. So what I noticed is I want a really low THC amount in whatever I smoke. And I want a higher CBD effect. And then it has that really euphoric Balance. But it still did not give me a feeling of an aphrodisiac. In fact, when it came time to sort of, okay, are we going to be sexual now? Like that feeling still felt sort of anxious and it didn't make me, I had a hard time staying present.

Willow:

Okay.

Leah:

almost like, like, I don't really like the skin I'm in right now. This feels like too much pressure to be really, really present in this intimacy. I'd rather just close my eyes and hide a little bit. Um, so it actually didn't, still hasn't worked for me yet as an aphrodisiac, but I'm not going to give up trying.

Willow:

You're not going to give up.

Leah:

I don't give

Willow:

it. I just, I mean, I just think it's amazing how it affects people's brain chemistry in such different ways. I mean, same as like, you know, anal sex versus oral sex versus vaginal sex. It is going to be very different for each individual person and body at different times. And so, playing with alcohol, playing with marijuana, during sexuality, it's just going to be so different for each individual, each different stage.

Leah:

and the strains have different effects. We've got indica. What's, what's the other one?

Willow:

Indica

Leah:

And Sativa. So, the way you can kind of remember the feeling differences of the two is Indica. Think of it as like Indi couch. Indi da couch. Indica.

Willow:

Larissa gave us that little

Leah:

Yeah, and that really helped me think

Willow:

Where you're just like floored. You're like, blah, I'm just here, you

Leah:

you're just kind of sinking in, it's relaxing. Where Sativa is more energizing. Um, and sometimes that energizing effect can lend itself to more of an anxious feeling. And so you want to think about, find out what the strain is, and then there's lots of hybrids.

Willow:

Yep,

Leah:

Um, which is just, sometimes this is like decision fatigue. You know, like I don't want to, kind of like pharmacology, I don't want to go on eight antidepressants to figure out which one is the one that works for me. Um, I don't want to smoke 20 different types of pot to try to figure out which one is the most aphrodisiac. So getting recommendations from people who already have brands or types that they love because of its aphrodisiacal benefits. Is aphrodisiacal a

Willow:

Aphrodisiacal. It's now. We're

Leah:

Sounds like a dinosaur name.

Willow:

One of the things that is true also about CBD is it does need to have THC in with it in order to work on the cannabinoid receptors in your brain. So, just a little word to the wise, if you're doing straight CBD, it's not really doing anything. Probably just placebo ing you, which is, you know, placebo's a thing. It works. So,

Leah:

totally. In fact, I kind of wonder if this, just the thought, the information of her telling me that CBD helps with anxiety is the reason why I just was like, Oh, okay,

Willow:

like, uh, now I'm, it's working, yeah.

Leah:

because I kind of, I kind of miss pot. I mean, the truth of the matter is as I get older. My body doesn't tolerate alcohol. Well, And I don't have Access to any of the fun party drugs. Plus I feel too old. So it's like you get to the stage where it's like, I'm sober all the time because my body doesn't like anything. And then

Willow:

ha ha.

Leah:

damn it, you know, what happened to the fun heydays? Even though those fun heydays also came with a lot of other consequences that I also don't want to deal with at this age in my life.

Willow:

Yeah, yeah, that's why everything is good in moderation and it is important to know what works for you, which brain, you know, strains, which way of ingesting, all of these factors.

Leah:

you should

Willow:

Same with alcohol, like are you going to drink beer or vodka or, you know, what are you going to drink. You know, so there is, there is always going to be and, you know, Shifting that as you age, as your hormones shift, as you, you know, become different places in your, in your body in different times and seasons in your life. I think, um, you know, I think playing with marijuana is, is, is, A really popular one these days. And I'm loving seeing all the baby boomers getting, getting into not just marijuana, but psychedelics as well. Getting into psilocybin journeys, getting into ayahuasca journeys. I think it's awesome.

Leah:

I was just gonna say about the baby boomers. I was, I was like, I'm seeing so many of my baby boomer friends who might have taken a break from playing sort of with substances and mind altering substances probably around my age, which is when I'm also less available for that. And now the kids are growing up, they're kind of retired and you know, they're taking gummies and you know, they're looking into plant medicine, they're taking mushrooms again. And I'm like, God, is that going

Willow:

Or for the first time. Some of them for the first time. I think it's amazing. Um, okay, let's move on. So, let's talk about, um, cocaine. Cocaine and amphetamines. So, we're moving right up in the world here. Wait, let's go to MDMA first, because that's sort

Leah:

to psychedelics. Stay on, stay on the like, fun, easy ride.

Willow:

Yeah, let's do

Leah:

gonna stay on the colorful train.

Willow:

Also known as Mali, also known as Ecstasy, Sassafras is in this category as well. So these,

Leah:

acid.

Willow:

well, those are going to be more psychedelics. MDMA

Leah:

you want to go to, I think we should do, if we're going in order, the next should be acid and mushrooms, and then we make our way to the

Willow:

To MDMA? Alright, okay everyone. Rewind.

Leah:

to

Willow:

Flip. Okay, okay. So, from marijuana, we're going to psychedelics.

Leah:

Yes!

Willow:

Alright, so this consists of LSD, which is chemical, then it consists of, um, you know, mushrooms, which is natural, and then, you know, there's so many, there's so many others out there. There's, um, there's, uh, ayahuasca, there's ketamine, that's the one I was trying to think of, yeah.

Leah:

and even, even something like, um, peyote and ayahuasca are also very psychedelic, though they don't, I'm not aware of any traditions that have connected those with sexuality,

Willow:

You're actually not supposed to do sex when you're doing ayahuasca. You're actually supposed to refrain from sexual activity before leading up to it, and then afterwards

Leah:

from the traditional sense. Though people are starting to take a look, they're experimenting. On that which to me is just shy. I mean, I can't even

Willow:

I don't know how

Leah:

any desire. I don't even want to talk to anybody on ayahuasca.

Willow:

Well, yeah, I

Leah:

touch me. Don't talk to me. Don't look at

Willow:

you're not supposed to, right? Yeah. Um, yeah, there's a reason that tradition is tradition. Um, but we're, you know,

Leah:

But ayahuasca has really never been seen also as a party drug or something, you know, whereas mushrooms and acid have a very, uh, a long history of starting in the counterculture of the 60s, of being a mind expanding substance that you would do in a group, that you would do listening to music, playing music, dancing, going to festivals. Um, Um, it hasn't always had a sacred construct to it, unlike the tradition of ayahuasca, that's also much older. Although mushrooms have a very long lineage going well into antiquity.

Willow:

Other, other psychedelics that are not necessarily party drugs but more used ceremonially are, are the bufo, the combo. The um, The different toad and frog medicines and those are really phenomenal. I mean, you would not want to do sex. You wouldn't want to be doing sexual experiences on them. So we'll put them to the side. But, um, there's so much out there these days. There's, uh, so much In the, you know, in the natural world that we can play with, and so much in the synthetic world that, that mimics the natural stuff, and it's all pretty, pretty amazing and mind altering and mind opening. Um, but, you know, the psilocybin and LSD, just sticking with those two, those really work on the sarotonogic, uh, aspect of your body, the receptors in your body. So it's more about, um, physical sensation, like having the experience of like, wow, I can feel my whole nervous system. It feels like a, like a root system underground, like a tree has roots digging into the earth. And then when you, yeah, very multidimensional,

Leah:

molecules. It's very sensory extreme.

Willow:

body. And so when you're with a lover and they're, you know, dragging their fingernails across your back, it's like you can feel every single micro moment of that movement. And it can just be, um, you're so blissed out and dropped into presence with that sensation that it really, like, you might not even get to penetrative sex, you know,

Leah:

You get so lost in the scratch. Your eyes are closed and you can see all the colors that are left behind those scratches on your back. I mean, it is such an exquisite, oftentimes beautiful unveiling of the universe. And you can see it outside in your environment. It really invokes all the senses. You know, you're really in touch with what you see. You're really in touch with what you taste. You're really in touch with what you feel on your skin. You're in touch with what sounds are coming in. You got music playing, it's like you can see the sounds. You can feel the sounds. The sounds are like, they're like sweat on the shimmering on your skin. I mean, it's so enlivening. Um, but it can almost be too enlivening. for

Willow:

For sex,

Leah:

in a sexual standpoint. Great intimacy among friends, but I've never really been able to have sex on acid or mushrooms if it wasn't combined with

Willow:

With some ecstasy. Yeah.

Leah:

it's almost just too much. I don't know. It's just too much. My nervous reaction goes on alert with

Willow:

how, how do you even, how can you even conceptualize? So, yeah, a lot of times people can end up in giggle fits. That's another thing that mushrooms can really bring forward is this release of, of laughter, which can then turn into this release of crying and then your cry laughing and

Leah:

and then you're basically having an orgasm of

Willow:

having an orgasm. You're having your own emotional, like, gasm. It's really powerful. So fun. Um, you know, and then combining, you know, you really, you want to have someone who knows what the heck they're doing if you are going to play with this stuff, but combining, um, mushrooms, acid, you know, one or two of those with MDMA does then, we used to call it candy flippin I don't know

Leah:

Yeah, candy flipping. Yeah, yeah, right.

Willow:

it. And, um.

Leah:

Yeah.

Willow:

You know, and so that, that, that can be a really nice combo, as you were just saying, Leah, because it can kind of like take the, take a little bit of the edge off of that deep, somatic, sensory, cross pattern, galactic thing that you're in the middle of, and bring you into a more of a heart place. I feel like MDMA really is centralized in the heart. It's really this amazing, heart opening, emotional expanding, love enhancing. Works on the dopamine receptors so you're really in that more emotional open connective place.

Leah:

Yeah, and I think dosing is a very important consideration. I think, um, microdosing may be an experience where you're not, um, you're not in that sensation intensity, you're more, if you were to, for instance, microdose with acid or mushrooms, it kind of just makes you a little more loose, a little bit more open, but it doesn't have like a visual effect to it. It's not nearly as strong, and so when we're talking about microdosing, you would take a tenth of of whatever it is the normal dose someone would take to get high, quote unquote. A microdose doesn't get you high, but it has an alchemical response that's subtle that many people are using to counteract things like anxiety and depression on a regular basis.

Willow:

Yeah. Yeah. I'm seeing a lot more people doing the microdosing just while they're hanging out at home, just while they're doing like their putzing around the house kind of stuff. If they don't have big projects ahead or they don't have to go to work or they don't have to

Leah:

Or sometimes people do go microdose, you're not high, you're just lifted in a different

Willow:

Depends on what your work is. Yeah.

Leah:

Yeah, it probably depends, but I know a lot of people who do the regular life.

Willow:

Yeah. Yeah.

Leah:

what they're doing is in effect. When it does affect, it's usually because someone takes too much. They didn't actually take a microdose.

Willow:

They didn't take a microdose.

Leah:

didn't measure, you know,

Willow:

and dose, you know, dosing is going to depend on your experience with it, your weight, your, your, whether you're male or female, you know, all of these factors. And so you really want to, um,

Leah:

which is why we're not giving any advice here. Yeah, we are not offering any advice, just talking about our own experiences.

Willow:

So, um, so then let's move on now to MDMA straight up. Okay, so ecstasy, my first ecstasy experience was here in Santa Barbara. I just moved back to Santa Barbara, y'all, where I'm originally sort of from, Southern California area. And um, it was up in the mountains around here somewhere. And I was 16 years old and took ecstasy for the first time. And I was with this group of friends and we were playing like Led Zeppelin, Janis Joplin, you know, we were like. Putting ourselves back in the 60s and just up on the mountain in the full moon and just dancing. And it was, it was really such a profound experience for me. I was like, wow, this is what life can be like. Like it can be really full of openness and love and connection to each other. And there doesn't have to be all these, like constructs and like, you're in this box and I'm in that box, and we can't be friends unless we get into the same box somehow together, you know, and just all the, the limitations that we kind of grow up with as kids and teenagers. And so it was really a beautiful, expansive experience. However.

Leah:

A affectionate drug.

Willow:

Very affectionate. This group of friends, they were always hugging and kissing each other on the lips. And I was like, wow, I was just in awe of it all, you know? And then, however, I did get into a sticky situation, which will definitely happen when you're young and don't have a lot of sense of good boundaries or a huge sense of sovereignty and um, I think it was that time or a time shortly thereafter that, uh, you know, that my first experience with date rape happened. So, um, you really want to be careful

Leah:

You want to be in a safe place with safe people, with strong intentions. And so, when teenagers do this stuff, also, like, their brains aren't fully developed until they're 25.

Willow:

Totally.

Leah:

You know, if I could do it all over again, I wouldn't have tried to grow up so fast. And, although I had so many beautiful experiences, I would never want to take them back, but at the same time, like, yeah, you put yourself into compromising situations because you don't have, you're not as well resourced as, as what maturity oftentimes allows you to be. And sometimes we become more mature due to obstacles that we have to cross in life. Not to say that, I mean I'm not using your example as an example. Um, but yeah, my experiences with ecstasy have always been very delicious. And um, started probably around the same age as you. Um, but I didn't start having sex on ecstasy. Until I was in my mid 20s, later 20s, and that was very eye opening. I mean, peak experiences, all time peak experiences have been on either MDA or MDMA. Um, the difference between the two is one of them has, um, there's a lot of methamphetamine in it. And so one is a little more chill, the other one has more energy. I personally like the one that has more energy. I like the one that has a little bit more methamphetamine, even though it's kind of controversial to say. Um, I just have had, the sex has been more fun, the energy has been more fun, the dancing has been more fun. Um, otherwise I can kind of fall into the bed and get very, you know, Supine, you know, it's very just like melty and I don't always have the energy, you know, to make love for eight hours. I kind of just want to stay in this floaty, ethereal place, um, and I much prefer to have the sex. Because to me the pleasure is mind blowing, the multiple orgasms, my access to the female ejaculation, my experience of the heart blasting open, coming third eye to third eye with another being, uh, the rushes up and down the spine, Anal sex in particular is, is otherworldly. You forget about some of the things that might kind of freak you out, that cause you to tense, that makes you go, Oh my God, anal. Um, that all just kind of falls away. And these just massive, I mean my biggest, most exceptional, most spiritual Orgasmic experiences have been from some kind of combination that includes ecstasy and oftentimes mushrooms or acid. Not all the time, um, but when you set the stage for that in my experience using that as a sacrament where you're going into the experience intentionally to create the most amount of love possible, where you're coming in and you're setting down what you want to bring into your life. And what you want to release from your life. There's so much magic that can happen in that place. And when you're doing it responsibly, you're measuring the quantity out appropriately for your system. You're also supporting your system with things like vitamin C at the end of the night, and a multivitamin, and lipoic acid, and um, Other things, even a serotonin uptake, 5 HTP to help balance all that you've depleted so that you don't have quite the hangover the next day and so that you're supporting your body with what it gets kind of stripped of in the process of taking these chemicals.

Willow:

Mm hmm. Yeah, I think, um, you know, MDMA can bring forward a lot of presence, a lot of sense of connection, and, you know, that can really allow you to open up in those places where you've otherwise felt like, oof, a little squeamish about. So.

Leah:

And you know what's interesting is having had some of those experience both on psychedelics and on something like ecstasy, when I'm in a high octave tantric experience, I don't need those drugs. To bring those feelings back. It's almost like you get these flashbacks of euphoria of this otherworldly cosmic mystical experience. And so it's nice sometimes to have those bridges, um, because you can put yourself back into those states, um, with high active lovemaking and you don't actually need those substances to go there.

Willow:

No, you definitely don't. Um, and, you know, when you, when you do bring Tantric practices into experiences with MDMA, you're going to have even, even more of those euphoric, um, high level conscious awakening experiences. And then, you know, when you, when you go into a sexual experience without that MDMA, As Leah was saying, you can, you can remember, you can draw on, but also sometimes it can feel like, oh, where, oh, I'm missing, I, I don't have the, the external drug working on me, so I, I won't be able to recreate this, but I think with practice and with, you know, continuing to explore what's possible between your body and another person's body, you will be able to access that. So just be patient with your journey and with your process.

Leah:

And it should be said that things like MDMA, MDMA have health consequences. You, you know, if you've got heart issues, these may not be substances you want to take. So you really need to take a look at the health consequences, talk to your doctor, um, and really consider what's the cost of this. And I'll tell you some costs that I've experienced is when you're in a relationship that is struggling. Okay. And you have this experience of using these substances as a sacrament. You know, we would, and I've watched other couples do this. We would have our Tantric journey nights. And we would use those as a crutch when our relationship was suffering because we could fall back in love when we were on a journey. And so then you're sort of going every time you have a relationship problem, it's very tempting to go, well, let's have a journey night. We need to reconnect with each other. We need to feel the magic again. And so you end up using this as a crutch to kind of keep that relationship going, to try to come back, but you're not actually resolving the issues that are in, uh, underpinning the conflict. And so I think that's something to be very mindful of. I watched a number of relationships stay together for too long because they kept on using these substances in their lovemaking as a crutch. Crutch, as a way to stay in denial, is a way to not face what they need to face in their partnership. So it can have an unhealthy, habitual quality to it that you should be aware of.

Willow:

Yeah, learning how to integrate whatever comes through on the journeys is, is going to, you know, make your relationship go the direction that it's meant to go. Um, but sometimes as couples become closer and more connected on, on a medicine, on an external drug, doesn't necessarily mean that they should stay together. What we're looking for here is truth, not so much what we want the outcome to be. So

Leah:

Yeah, um, and I think what's also worth worth mentioning is all the research that they're doing now with, um, especially with mushrooms and with, um, MDMA and MDA, there's so much new science out there having incredible with results of doing these types of journeys in a. controlled environment with a therapist, helping people with death and dying issues, um, cancer survivors, um, military, uh, personnel that have been dealing with PTSD, um, trauma survivors are seeing real measurable results regarding their well being, regarding their mental health. Um, that is really transforming their outlook on life or their outlook on death, or they're able to reflect and heal from something that was, uh, from the past. It was very destabilizing. So I'm really excited to see so much change out there and how we're looking at these substances because there's a lot of medicinal benefit. Um, other than it just being like a street or a party drug, like I've known them in my youth.

Willow:

Yeah, absolutely. Um, let's move into the, the stronger drugs like coke and amphetamines. These drugs really work on your dopaminergic system. So they're, they're gonna give you those like high emotional states, like, I'm king of the world. I'm queen of the world. Look at me, you know, there's sort of a more, um, a more, I mean, So, um, I've done a lot of these drugs myself. Done some, but not a ton. And, um, what I, what I do notice is there's more of a, uh, there's less of a we're connecting vibe, and there's more of a, like, connect, worship me, like, look at me, revere me, like, you know, that kind of vibe. So, so, um, you know, and, and it, it, it should be said, you know, with all of these, um, experimenting with these different party drugs, See ya. Inside of sexuality, a lot of times the um, you know, the side effect is you don't have an orgasm. Like you might have these really amazing sexual experiences, but for, with a lot of them having an orgasm and sometimes even getting erection from men is challenging. Um, so have you used more of these amphetamine and coke things during sexual experiences More,

Leah:

And, uh, they've been a blast.

Willow:

Yeah, yeah. These ones really, uh,

Leah:

all a blast to me by and large, I mean, what can I

Willow:

These, these ones really heighten and enhance. They're kind of like much more fire, more, more yang to the, to the table, to the experience.

Leah:

Yeah, I would say, you know what, if I were to look at these from the erotic blueprint

Willow:

Mm hmm, yeah.

Leah:

like the sensual and the energetic are so the psychedelics and the MDMA and the ecstasy, um, the kinky and the sexual and the shapeshifting is so much more the cocaine, the speed, the methamphetamine stuff, the stuff that are like uppers. Um, Definitely more that, like, I always think it's like, I'm more interested in like, pornographic sex, where like, that really doesn't turn me on day to day. But like, there is something about getting down and dirty on these uppers. Now, I have to say they're not nearly as orgasmic as something like ecstasy or ketamine, in my opinion. Um, you're kind of chasing something. Also, they're not very intimacy. Um, inspiring. Like do me from behind is kind of more what I'm interested in. I don't really, I don't crave like that soul to soul eye contact thing like I do with the other substances. It's more, It's more kind of primal sexual. Um,

Willow:

Mm

Leah:

fact, it's, that's when I think porn is fun. It's about the only time I think porn is fun. Um, so for me, it's kind of like that. Yeah, it's not something that I crave or that I would do very often, but that has been my experience. Also, I noticed that there are more erection issues with both ecstasy. I think it seems like to me, the majority of men really have a hard time with sex on ecstasy. It seems like a much smaller percentage. Um, you know, it has no problem at all. Uh, and with things like cocaine and meth, I don't, I don't know what the erection issue is. Is there one in your research that you did?

Willow:

Not, definitely not as much as they would on MDMA or, you know, even hallucinogenics.

Leah:

I feel like speed is just more dangerous. I feel

Willow:

might lose their erection, like right in the middle. Yeah, it's harder on the heart. It's definitely, yeah, and like, you know, It's, it's real fast, fiery, furious. Yeah, you're more, more rough, more wild, that kind of thing. Um, but then there's a lot, lot less, uh, I, I feel like a lot less subtle sensation, you know, so.

Leah:

Yeah, and I think too, um, it's not exactly very Tantric.

Willow:

It's definitely not

Leah:

and I think for me, like, it's not something, I, there's more fear connected to those substance in general for me, regarding addiction, regarding accessibility, regarding purity, um, there's a lot of things you can't measure with speed. Then I feel like there is with some of the other substances that we've talked about so far. Maybe I'm also not as informed, but, um, I think it's hard to get really sort of quality, um, products in that way that you could trust more. And you, of course, you still have to worry about addiction.

Willow:

All depends on, yeah, what you're sourcing, where you're getting it. I mean, you can get bad quality MDMA, you can get amazing quality cocaine, you know, you can get amazing quality MDA, and you can get terrible quality

Leah:

mean, people are prescribed methamphetamine all the time. I think people think, I think sometimes people have judgements around these drugs, not realizing that these are pharmacology, this is part of the pharmacology of life, just as is anything else we put in our body. And so methamphetamine is used in a lot of pharmacology, including treating things like ADHD. Um, so it's not that these substances are bad. They're not even bad morally. We place those judgments on them. And, you know, I think it's important to actually shift our judgments of some of these drugs because they are just substances. And then you have to decide what's right for your body or not, and also take a look at like what's dangerous and what's not. When done correctly, I don't think you're as in much danger of addiction, but it kind of depends on your personality, it depends on your lifestyle, it depends on what you're running away from, what you're running towards, um, all these things should be reviewed.

Willow:

There, there's, there's a whole web. You within yourself are a whole web that is weaving and so, you know, being really conscious and aware about, you know, why you would be wanting to play with Tantric sex just on its own. Why would you want to be playing with Drugs, and tantric sex, or or just drugs and sex, or just drugs in general, like what is the purpose? Are you going into it with intention or you're just trying to escape something? And so all of this is really important to you know I think it's helpful to have professionals So, um, it's a really good tool for us to bounce this off of, to talk to this about, and, um, it really helps to talk to somebody who's knowledgeable on the subject and has a lot of, um, guidance to give. So, we know lots of those people. I support people with this in their integration period as well, so, you

Leah:

I don't.

Willow:

out to us. You

Leah:

don't, don't reach out to me. I don't, I'm not going to advise anyone or walk you down a path or recommend anyone to you, but Willow does have more experience in this realm, facilitating people, and she's got access to many more experts than I do. Yeah, um, I will say that in some of the research that I've looked at when it comes to speed is that it flushes you with such high levels of dopamine that due to long term use, your body actually can't make the dopamine. That it requires in order for you to feel happy. And so a lot of the consequences to hardcore addiction is the inability for your body to regenerate dopamine. Now, that was my understanding. I could be wrong on that. Please, if you know more about this, please inform us, educate us in the comments, um, but something to be mindful of. We've all see sort of the damages that the use of drugs in general has on people. And we all have different sensitivities and sometimes we don't find out what those sensitivities are until it's too late.

Willow:

Mm hmm.

Leah:

so you really have to be mature and seek out, you know, people who know what they're talking about and go on the natch, you know, if you really want to have some superior sexual experiences, study something like Tantra and find out for yourself just how high you can get

Willow:

Just with your own drugs inside of your body. All of your hormones are drugs. They make you feel certain ways. They make you see things differently. They make you open your heart in ways you never have before. So when we are teaching people how to ride levels of arousal we're basically teaching them how to play with dopamine, how to play with these same chemicals that are inside your body that these exogenous chemicals give you as well. So the reality is all the medicine you need is already inside of you. It's just a matter of learning how to access it.

Leah:

well said. And I would just add, learn how to access this in your system. Gain these skills in your body. And then, if you're going to experiment, I can't tell you how much more additive it is to your experimenting, when you already have access, uh, uh, with these skills, with these abilities to take yourself to higher states. Your experimenting will only be more profound because you have something called embodied knowledge that can take you to some really conscious, um, mystical experiences, uh, with yourself and hopefully with somebody special, someone you care about.

Willow:

That's right. So, everyone, let us know what you think about this episode in the comments. We would love to hear from you, and we would love to hear about your experiences. We would love to hear about anything that we got wrong or right in your knowledge base. And, um,

Leah:

I do want to just say one more caveat, which I wish I would have said earlier in the episode. It's very difficult to make decisions when you're not sober.

Willow:

True that.

Leah:

And, and even when you're at a high level of arousal, your body is flooding you with so much chemicals, it's like you are on a drug. And so you really need to pay really close attention that you are making consensual decisions. When you are sober, before arousal sets in, whether you're doing this on the natch, which is you're not high on anything, or whether you are on substances, you really need to make sure that you've got your agreements, um, organized and communicated, and that you're not just making up decisions after you are in an altered state of consciousness, because that's really where regret sets in. That's when you've realized that you say yes to things that you wish you would have said no to.

Willow:

That's a really important thing to throw in there at the end. Thank you for that piece. And, um, yeah, just sending you all so much love and light on your journey.

Leah:

Okay, take care. Love, love, love.

Announcer:

Thanks for tuning in. This episode was hosted by Tantric Sex Master Coach and Positive Psychology Facilitator, Leah Piper, as well as by Chinese and Functional Medicine Doctor and Taoist Sexology Teacher, Dr. Willow Brown. Don't forget, your comments, likes, subscribes, and suggestions matter. Let's realize this new world together.

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Dr. Willow Brown

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Leah Piper

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