The Sex Reimagined Podcast

Karen Fitzgerald: Love After Divorce - 5 Secrets to Midlife Sexual Awakening | #104

• Leah Piper

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Ready to spice up your love life, no matter what your driver's license says? This episode is your golden ticket to sensual awakening! Meet Karen Fitzgerald – Tantra educator, award-winning public speaker, & fierce advocate for love at any age. Karen discovered her sexual mojo at 50 after a 25-year marriage that left her feeling sexually unfulfilled. Plagued by insecurities about her age & body Karen's turning point came during a spiritual trip to India, where an unexpected energy awakening ignited her passion & set her on a path of sexual exploration. Her courage paid off when she formed a beautiful connection with a much younger man, healing old wounds & discovering the joys of intergenerational relationships. She's here to show you it's never too late to get your groove on!  

IN THIS JUICY EPISODE, WE DIVE INTO:

  • Karen's journey from divorce to Tantra goddess
  • How to rock body confidence when you're not 25 anymore
  • Secrets to mind-blowing communication in the bedroom
  • Why dating younger might be your new fountain of youth
  • Blending boardroom skills with boudoir magic


EPISODE LINKS *some links below may also be affiliate links 

THE VAGINAL ORGASM MASTERCLASS. Discover how to activate the female Gspot, clitoris, & cervical orgasms. Buy Now. Save 20% Coupon: PODCAST 20

LAST 10x LONGER. If you suffer from premature ejaculation, you are not alone, master 5 techniques to cure this stressful & embarrassing issue once and for all. Buy Now. Save 20% Coupon: PODCAST20.

THE MALE GSPOT & PROSTATE MASTERCLASS. This is for you if… You’ve heard of epic anal orgasms, & you wonder if it’s possible for you too. Buy Now. Save 20% Coupon PODCAST20.

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Willow:

I'm Dr. Willow Brown, your Taoist expert here at Sex Reimagined.

Leah:

And I'm Leah Piper, your Tantra expert at Sex Reimagined. And today we have for you, um, the wonderful, the beautiful Karen Fitzgerald, who, by the way, has been an event coordinator and a Tantra educator for Source School of Tantra Yoga. She's been a part of the Mama Gina's, organization for decades, and she is an award winning public speaker and coach. She's been teaching people public speaking everywhere from Broadway to 100 Fortune businesses and companies. And so it gives me such a delight to bring to you the lovely Karen Fitzgerald.

Willow:

You're going to fall in love with this woman and you're going to learn so much about what it takes to overcome the obstacles and the challenges that you think are getting in the way of you opening up to greater pleasure.

Leah:

So tune in, turn on and fall in love with Karen.

Announcer:

Welcome to the Sex Reimagined Podcast, where sex is shame free and pleasure forward. Let's get into the show.

Leah:

We have Karen Fitzgerald, and this is a real treat for me personally. Karen has been a friend, a student, a colleague, and it's a real pleasure to have her here. During my days with Source Tantra and Charles Muir. She was one of our, um, co event coordinators. She helped us bring in, um, so many beautiful people to the classes, and one of my favorite parts of that journey. was seeing the transformations, um, that people would have on Sunday morning. You know, they'd have this big assignment on Saturday night and all of us, Karen, myself, Guy, um, Lauren, Wanda, there were so many of us who'd been through the trainings who just got to sit in this experience of, well, I guess it just, how would you describe it, Karen? To me, it was just feeling so moved and humbled by the breakthroughs people had by touching. Each other more consciously.

Karen:

Oh, it was, I was talking about this the other day to somebody, uh, I've described your work and Charles's work many times over the years. And I was talking about it because I said, you know, I was describing the women particularly coming in and forming the circle and then getting to choose a guy or the married couples, which was very interesting. And then the Sunday morning reflection after the practice that they had done on Saturday night. It would bring tears to your eyes, to hear, first of all, right, to hear the married couples, to hear the married couples, you know, the men would say, I never knew I could bring her so much pleasure, or I never knew I could wake her up in this way, I didn't, nobody taught me. Um, and the, and the single people, I remember one guy, I think he was in our training, but I remember one guy, he said, you know, I got chosen by this older woman. And I wanted one of the hot young things, you know, and he said, she chose me. And I went, we did the session together and he said, it was the most beautiful session I had ever had. Um, so, so all of these reflections, it didn't matter age, it didn't matter, you know, all the different status, single, married, whatever, the reflections on Sunday morning were astonishing to me and because of the training Charles had given the men and that you had given the women separately during those sessions and then coming together. That was amazing.

Willow:

I love Sunday mornings. That's like the candy of the whole thing. You know It's like that's where you really get to see everyone the processing and the the transformation and I love what you just you know pointed to Karen around you know doesn't matter the age or the shape or the you know size and we all of course know the hot young person that we're attracted to but it's like You actually can experience so much more profound healing when you're with somebody that you're not attracted to because all of a sudden you get to be whatever the F you want to be, you know, whatever the F is coming through for you and you're not, um, trying to, you know, impress this person or be something that they're going to like, or, you know, we, we all do that when we get into, um, sexual experiences. So, We're really attracted to and we really want this to work out with this person. So I think that's one of the most profound healing parts about the Tantric experience is we get to let go of so much of what gets in the way of, of actually experiencing pleasure and profound breakthroughs.

Karen:

Yeah, and when I would, because I was going through the training as well, and I was working on people's bodies. And I got stuck with this one gentleman. I say got stuck because there's a lesson here. I got stuck with this one

Leah:

that on purpose.

Karen:

no, no, I am saying it on purpose. And he, he was very big. Um, you could tell by his energy that he experienced a lot of rejection in his life. And he was, and he was the one I landed with. And you know, in the training, okay, so we're going through the training and we had to do some very, I had to do a very deep massage on him that night. And I was told to just bring the love, just bring the love. I fell in love with this guy. And I don't mean like as a boyfriend, I mean, first of all, he had gone through training. He had gone through training himself. And so the various practices that I had to do, which were very intimate, uh, He, he facilitated that for me and then he let me know how much pleasure that I had brought him. And it was a lesson for me. It was a real lesson for me about that very thing that we're talking about. It doesn't matter the size. It doesn't matter the shape. It doesn't matter the age. It was, uh, it was

Leah:

doesn't matter if you're attracted or not.

Karen:

exactly, exactly. You kind of fall in love with the person and not like you're going to go on a date with them. Just the energy of love.

Leah:

Yeah, it's like that energy of love opens you. And it makes you realize that you're capable of things you didn't know you were. It makes you courageous. It makes you feel humbled. It makes you feel like you can believe in humanity and the human spirit and that there's this brotherhood sisterhood thing that's really real, that we can really make a difference in each other's lives and that the love we put out matters. Because it's medicine. I think that's really what those courses taught me and to just to give a little context to the audience like well What are they talking about this Saturday night home play?

Karen:

Yeah. well, I know.

Leah:

yeah, so so Charles is known for a practice called sacred spot massage, and it's both a healing and awakening modality it's a genital massage and And in this context, you separate the roles of giver and receiver. And there's something really profound that happens when you know what your job is, and you're not distracted by trying to receive when your job is to give, or trying to give when your job is to receive. And what people come to see is that there's growth in both roles. I think it's more common to go, you know, people want to be a master lover. They want to be really, really good at this, having sex, giving sex, providing sex. And so we tend to be more giver oriented, but there's all sorts of skills that we can't pay attention to if we're trying to receive while we're giving. And then I think the thing that's more misunderstood is the art of receiving. And the challenges that come at receiving, because if you're going to learn how to be a good receiver, you're going to have to encounter the fact that someone's got to see you, and they're going to see not just your nakedness, but like that raw, real, vulnerable, stripped down, here I am, in all my glory, and in all my pain. And there's something that happens to pleasure. When you can become that naked with another being that you choose to trust. And I think one of the most remarkable things that happens, especially in the singles group, because they don't, they haven't had much time with the stranger that they've been in this class with all weekend, right? They're really start jumping into the fire of going, I'm putting my body in your hands. Expecting you to respect all the rules and the boundaries that the class has put on us and that you're going to take really good care of me and time and time again. That's exactly what these strangers came to do for each other and that was so amazing for the couples to perceive. But I think the couples that turned out really had a harder time with trust Wouldn't you guys agree? Because I mean they have history together And so they walk into the course feeling so bad for the singles because oh my god They have to work with someone they don't know and trust and then they get into the homework With their partner and they go, Oh my God, I might love you, but I don't fucking trust you, which really means I don't trust myself. And yeah, so, I mean, having all said that, is there anything you guys want to add before we kind of skip around?

Karen:

No, beautifully said on my end.

Willow:

Yeah. Yeah, I think, um, I think that there's, you know, often in long term relationships, there's a, uh, a level of trust that gets, um, doesn't get looked at, doesn't get explored, doesn't get the regular practice that it actually requires. And, um, so when you're in that environment where it's like, okay, let's expose everything and let's get vulnerable, it just comes right up to the surface. And so you really get to, I think that's one of the beautiful and profound things that happens for the couples is they get to really look at the things that they have not, that they've been sweeping under the rug, you know, that they haven't been paying attention to and trust is a big one. And um, if they can see that it's like, it's a level of trust inside of themselves, like, do I trust myself to be true? Fully, fully naked, vulnerable, and exposed with you, my long term partner, my husband, my wife, my, my spouse, you know, whoever they are. There's a lot, there's a lot of, there's a lot of, it can be very triggering. I definitely remember seeing a lot of the couples being triggered as fuck. Just like, Oh my God, we're, we're out of here. You know what I mean? Some couples were like uncomfortable to be around and then by the end they were engaged or whatever.

Leah:

yeah, yeah, they, we usually had a big breakthrough that like really bought, I mean they're the ones that you often were, were really crying by the end of just, we're so close, I've never felt this close to you in 18 years, you know, which was like, again, just renewed your faith and love. You know, I'll never forget your first weekend, Willow, where I met you. And you're, you and your partner coming in that Sunday, I think you, I think you were like the darlings of the Sunday share. And, um, I remember both me and Charles were like crying, and I remember your partner was like, you know, here he is with this woman. Who's so evolved and so passionate and so deep and so spiritually hungry for that kind of intimate connection and you were so ready for it and so there for it and his insecurities just kind of bubbling up and bubbling up and sort of the dread that he was experiencing and feeling like he was gonna screw up but he was like the hero that night and he got it and he got you and to hear you both I mean, it left an impression. I mean, I'll, I'll, even if I had never met you again after that, I will have always remembered your share from that first weekend. Um, is there anything you would add to that first weekend experience for you personally?

Willow:

Yeah, it was hard, you know, it was brought up a lot and it was, it was, but it was a platform. It was a, a place for me to actually like, speak to everything that I had been trying to speak to, but hadn't been received and hadn't been heard. So it gave, I think, because it was, it was so out and open, everyone was witnessing it. It was like, okay, he had no choice. But to kind of like soften and see it, not to mention doing the practice together. It's humbling. It's humbling for a man, especially a man who's like, I'm already good at sex. I already know what I'm doing with a woman's body. I already know my way around this terrain, you know? And so if a man's coming in with that sort of like macho, not that he was, but you know, I'm sure a lot of men do, um, it can be really, it can soften them and, and get them more into a receptive state to hear their partners. Deepest truth. So it's a great platform

Leah:

If they can get around their

Willow:

can get around that. Yeah. And I have, you know, I have couple clients that I, um, work with and they're like, do you think we should go to a source Tantra weekend? I'm like, yes, yes, I think you should. Because, you know, but they're like, but I don't know if my husband will be into it. He's really not like open or wanting to share all these things. And it's like, well, you know. It just, it, Charles handles the men in such a great way. Wouldn't you agree, Karen? Like, what would you add to, to this? his,

Karen:

Yeah. It was always interesting to me. For one thing, the Sunday morning conversations, also the work at Mama Gina's, as you know, I did a lot of work at Mama Gina's for a number of years, uh, which is about pleasure. It was, I was involved in that school for 11 years and the thing that was my favorite, one of my favorites there, there were many, and also the Sunday mornings was listening to the men because I needed to heal some things around men and listening to the open heartedness of men, listening to the yearnings of men, listening to them awakening to, Oh my God, this is not what I, I did not know this, but I'm so glad I do now. I would hear that in the men's nights. We would have men's nights at Mama Gina's. I would hear this on the Sunday morning shares. And it was a real healing for me to hear men delve into that. I mean, I was around thousands of women. I helped facilitate thousands of women, uh, into pleasure. I mean, I knew that, but, but watching the men come into this conversation was just healing. It was just amazingly healing. Yeah.

Leah:

Yeah. That's so true. You know, one of the things that always struck me as so beautiful was time and time again, every single seminar. There was always a handful of men that would make the comment, I didn't know how much I could receive, how satisfied, how satisfying it was to just be received and to give. I went into it worried that I wasn't going to get a turn to be sexually pleasured. Because it was all about her that night, but what I got in return was so much more satisfying than my own orgasm. Like, she really received me, and that was like, I never knew how badly I needed or wanted that. Like, that, that had healed some part of them, and um, I just love that. I love that. I love it when people can get just how satisfying, um, someone receiving them can

Willow:

So Karen, tell us a little bit more about how you, like, how did you start your journey with Tantra? Did you, and have you studied, you studied with Mama Gina with Source Tantra. Have you studied with others? And, um, you know, what really got you sparked?

Leah:

what jump started this?

Karen:

what jump started this was a 25 year marriage where it was almost sexually non existent. Uh, there was a lot of rejection from my husband and there were a variety of reasons. You know, we both came from... Pretty dysfunctional families in one way or the other and so we got married and you could call it I had love addiction for him and he had love avoidance. Let's just put it that way So, you know, we just leave it there, but I was married to him for 25 years and finally a lot of things were revealed to me and I finally got the courage to leave when I was 50, 50 years old. And And I, so, so after that I had got, I was on a big spiritual journey. I'm doing all this spiritual work and I was healing from the neck up, right? And I went on a spiritual journey to India to learn something called the oneness blessing. And I was there for three weeks thinking I was going to, it was going to help me become enlightened. And instead what happened was I was filled with rage for three weeks, just rage, just rage pouring out of my body. But they were doing these hands on, you know, it's a hands on sort of laying their hands on your head, and this energy is supposed to run through your body. And the last day after three weeks, one of the guys said to me, He said, come to my room. And he said, um, my roommate is a real healer from Brazil. And he said, and, and the two of us will lay our hands on your head for healing. And I said, I've had 300 of these, leave me alone. And he said, no, no, he said, let's do it. So they did it. I was in their room. I'm sitting on the end of his bed and they lay their hands on my head and this electrical energy shot through the back of my neck and down my spine. And my yoni Literally opened up like a lotus and and they're praying over me very respectful and in my head I'm thinking I could do them both right here

Leah:

Yes, let's get this on.

Willow:

I love it. Were they hot? Were they attractive?

Karen:

They were pretty, they were pretty attractive. But you have to understand, I went to Catholic school for 13 years. Okay. So this wasn't going to happen. I didn't say anything, but I came back. I'm my background. I'm an actress and a singer and a coach and my background. Um, so I came back and I was telling some of these stories and an actor friend said to me, you need to write a solo show about this. And I

Willow:

I love it. I love it.

Karen:

It's a comedy. It's like a spiritual comedy, and it leads from, you know, post divorce, don't talk about my divorce at all, but it leads from that to learning how to say yes to sexuality. So that was the beginning, and a few months after, so I have an awakened yoni, and I'm in New York City, I'm living in New York City, and I thought, what am I supposed to do with this? And a few months later, three different women in two weeks said to me, You need to know about this woman, Mama Gina. And I checked her out and looked at a couple of videos, and I signed up. And I didn't know what I was signing up for. I had looked at some other Tantra teachers and all that, but I, so I went to her and

Leah:

How long ago was this,

Karen:

2008.

Willow:

Ah,

Karen:

I was 50, at this point I was 56 years old and so I went and I, for like two and a half years, I paid real money and I was like the, the graduate student, you know, I just took it all. And then I stayed very involved for the next nine years. Um, I operated, I was, I was a leader, I was on team pleasure, facilitating the creation course, all of these things, you know, the graduate courses. So I did all that. And within that, we got permission as women to love our bodies. And to experiment and to explore. So my first exploration was in something called Orgasmic Meditation. I did that for, I didn't take all the trainings that some of the other folks that we know did. But I went to those circles every week for five years. And I asked different men to just massage my yoni. I mean, it's a whole practice. Listening to it right now, it's like, what? Clit stroking, you know, sort of like, what is she? It's,

Leah:

But in a meditative and actually a really specific, there's a specific method and there, again, the roles of giver and receiver are separated and everyone knows their job and it's a 15 minute

Karen:

hmm. Yes, exactly. It's, it's quite, it's quite amazing and within that time a couple of the women at Mama Gina's were going to Charles Muir and I started talking to them and I was in San Francisco at one point I had a three hour conversation with Caroline Muir.

Leah:

Oh with Caroline Muir. What

Karen:

It was wonderful. She was so, people told me to talk to Caroline and I did. I researched her out in San Francisco and it was beautiful. I mean, she was just inviting me to step into, cause I was pretty new to this. This was 2010, I think. And I was pretty new to this. And she just invited me as a mature woman to step in. And go to Charles for the beginner weekend. She knew I was doing some of the OMing and she just said step. Cause I was so afraid. I didn't know how to date. I was so shut down from all the rejection that, you know, it was like anything to start opening up to men, to start opening up to possibility. So she really encouraged me and she was a love, you know, she's a walking heart. You know. She is. And, and then I went to Charles's 2010. I went to the first beginner weekend and experienced that. I experienced you teaching. At one point, I experienced Caroline teaching briefly with him. And then it was always you for all the many years after that. And around that time, I also invited my grown daughter to take Mama Gina's work, which we can talk about at some point. And she, she looked at Regina's website page and she said, Mom, this is all about flirting with men and I'm gay.

Willow:

that's so funny.

Karen:

no, it's not. It's much more than that. Anyway, she let me enter her in and she got in and she became Regina's right hand person for seven years. So that's a whole other.

Willow:

Wow, how old was your daughter when you, when you brought her in?

Karen:

Okay. So this was 2010, 13 years ago. She's 40 now. So she was like 27, maybe she was 27. And, um, I wanted, I wanted my kids, I also sent my son and daughter in law to a Charles Muir beginner weekend because I wanted my kids to know what I had not known. Okay, so I, I did all that.

Leah:

Yeah, I think Matt just fell in love with your son. I think Matt was at that training. Or you connected the two of them and they ended up connecting, but it was a

Karen:

Thank you. Yeah, I did. I did. Well, Matt's a doll anyway, but that's a whole other conversation. Um, so that was, that was the beginning. So, and then within that, I took pole dancing for 11 years. I took I did.

Leah:

Was that through the S factor

Karen:

was in S Factor. I did S Factor for 11 years. I still do all of the practices here at home. I did, I took, a very dear friend of mine taught burlesque, she was a burlesque, and I took burlesque. I did a performance, you know. It was all about, it was all about waking up, I had a couple pleasure partners, and then I met a much younger man through one of the Tantra classes who became my lover for a year and a half.

Willow:

Oh, I

Leah:

Well, I just wanted to mention real quick, and then I know, um, Willow has a question for you, is for those of you who don't know Caroline, take a look at the show notes and we'll have her episode links so you can get to know her because she's a legend in and of herself. Um, back to

Willow:

Okay, Karen, you said that you created this show about, um, you know, that experience you had with those two men in India. Is there anywhere we can watch that?

Karen:

I don't have it posted yet, but I can send it to you too, and you could, I'll let you take a look at it.

Willow:

Okay, we, we want to see it. We want to see it. We can't, we can't put it in the show

Leah:

share that one with you yet.

Karen:

no,

Willow:

about, what about the burlesque dance? Is that one available?

Karen:

think that was ever recorded. It was, we had five women in the class, we had five women in the class. The teacher was amazing. And in fact, the teacher now teaches embodiment work herself. She's got a podcast. I'll tell you all about that at the end. You might want to talk to her

Leah:

we'd love to have her on

Willow:

Yeah. We probably do.

Karen:

amazing.

Willow:

So, so where is it that all this led you? Like, where are you at now with your work around sexuality and awakening?

Karen:

Where I'm at now, so I taught, after completing level three, getting my certification at Source Tantra, with Guy and Lauren for a couple of years, we taught Intro to Tantra in New York City while things were still live. So we did that, I think, once a month, and then Lauren and I, before she really just took off in her direction, we taught a couple of classes in Women falling in love with their own bodies and their own divine feminine, then we co taught again, uh, women, uh, becoming the Snake Whisperer.

Leah:

Yes,

Karen:

created that together! I will tell you, we created the name, we created the whole thing, and we co taught that for, and we created it together, and then when we sort of split off, she went and she's still teaching it, and I... I step back and I step back from all of it and I'm getting pushed. I teach find your voice, find your power. I teach public speaking, right? And I've done it at Facebook and Amazon and all of these things, Fortune 100 companies. And I've been doing it privately now for the last several years with people. You know, if they want to do a TED talk, if they want to do whatever, I help them construct it, all of that's private work. But what. People have been saying to me, is you need to be teaching, find your voice, find your power in the bedroom or the boardroom.

Leah:

Amen,

Willow:

In the bedroom or the boardroom? And, and the

Karen:

and the boardroom.

Leah:

that's right, from the bedroom to the boardroom, baby.

Willow:

Love

Karen:

exactly, and I've been, and I've been shy about it because some of the initial people that I started working with in Tantra had had real sexual trauma. And required a therapist. I mean, it was very clear and, um, and I have that background, but the public speaking stuff, I do, and I know how to speak and I know how to find your voice and all of that. So, all the people that I've been talking to for a long time have been saying, Karen. Find your voice, find your power in the bedroom to the boardroom. So that's where it's leading to. It's going, because that's where I get my joy. You know, the boardroom is interesting and the TED talks are fascinating. I love people's stories. I love stories of transformation. And when you get into the sexuality, the sensuality, all that, that's where I get buzzed. You know

Leah:

you know, one of the things that's really fun is, is to have interviews with people that I know, know other people who've been on the show. I mean, you've mentioned Caroline, you've mentioned Charles, Lauren Harkness has been on the show, Guy has been on the show, so we'll put those in the show notes as well so you guys can get to know all these amazing friends. That are in the same orbit together and you know, Karen, I think when people hear you talk about Mama Gina work and so much of hers is about giving permission to one's desire and being connected to one's pleasure and And not making an excuse that you're the one that comes last especially as a woman. Can you say a little bit more about her influence on you and your life because I imagine when people, you know, hear about, oh, she's really pleasure, pleasure forward, their imagination could run wild. Like, how do you teach people about their pleasure? Like, how do you practically give them those skills in a classroom? So maybe you could kind of demystify what happens in these types of

Karen:

I will try. It's, it's hard. We, we always used to, I used to be on some of the marketing videos for her and we would try and including with my daughter, Lauren, who was, like I said, her right hand person, would always try to articulate what that meant in those classes. So for me. it's done, so I'm going to be 70, 71 next week, and

Willow:

Congratulations.

Karen:

thank you, and it gave me permission, gave me permission. It's a huge class about permission in every individual sense. You know, some women are going to go absolutely wild and go sleep with 12 men next month, you know what I mean? And some of us who are slower than that. are going to find it in how do you glamorize your life? How do you, what, what wants to show, what lives on the internal that wants to show come forth on the external? And for me, it started with a lot of women, it started with clothing. I mean, right now I'm wearing some sequins, right? And I'm wearing red. I know women who will not wear red. Because it's too hot a color, all right? And so it would begin with those kinds of simple things. And then it would get into, she would bring people into the classroom who did pole dancing. And we had pole dancing. And you would see women's bodies, women honoring their bodies, climbing the poles, I could do all that at some point, um, excuse me. But it was permission to explore your femininity in ways that we had not been taught to explore. And we did exercises, you know, I mean, you can't see my arm here, but exercises in soft touch on your arm. Exercises in how to love your breasts, whether you're huge or lopsided or flat, it didn't matter. You know, and we, we got into it. We got into it. And, and of course, always talking about your yoni, your pussy, right? And your sexuality. She's very focused on that, which is great because that's the part of us that is so taught to be so filled with shame.

Willow:

Yeah,

Karen:

And doing it in a room of women, facilitated in a really safe way. You could see women come out of depression. You could see women heal illnesses. You could see women just, I didn't do any of those things, just leap forward into their lives in a much more joyous way. And I, it brings a vibrancy. I'm aging very differently. I am aging very differently because of that work that I did,

Willow:

Absolutely.

Leah:

You know, I think something that's also unique that I'd love for you to touch on about our work, it was like the permission to feel it all. So it was like, not only are you having permission to feel your pleasure, to go after your pleasure, to connect to your pleasure, to discover your pleasure, to dis to really go deep into what does desire for you, but then there was like all the swamping and having a place to rage and having a place to just let it all out, no fucking apologies for being an emotional creature. It was your emotions were seen as a superpower versus something you had to control and fix and to make other people comfortable. What, what can you add about that part of the transformation in her work?

Karen:

So I had done a lot of that work before I got there. It was similarly though, it was very similar to what she was doing and what was fascinating is when women unleashed their rage because there is so much rage. Well, first of all, she tells women to play the 88 keys on your piano. Okay. She says a piano has 88 keys and we tend to play like Eight, right? We tend to play eight, you know, like, I'll be nice and I'll be this and I'll be that. And it was this full range of rage, ecstasy, uh, desire, and all of it, like, like do it. And the swamping was actually an exercise that we did that you literally were bringing your body into this. You know, it's hard to do here on a podcast, but it's, you're bringing your body into the rage. Similarly, I had done this work with somebody else before, and what that woman taught us was similar to what Regina taught us, is get a plastic baseball bat that's really sturdy, and just go into your bedroom and beat the crap out of your bed, right, when you're feeling, and you'll find a phrase to do it like, you, you S. O. B., you know, just pound the hell out of you, whatever it is, but it, those were the kinds of practices that she was teaching as well, and it was profound. And it gave you permission, it gave me permission to unleash a lot of the rage that I had walked around with after my marriage ended. It was a lot of rage. And,

Leah:

right.

Willow:

of unexpressed and latent rage. I mean, we just aren't given permission exactly that word to, to get in touch with that part of ourselves. I do believe that causes a lot of dis ease and illness in the body. And when people start to express it, those dis ease, This eases and those illnesses start to lift and start to clear. I've seen that happen multiple, multiple times over. And do you guys, are you aware that they now have, I have this brilliant idea, then come to find out it's already in action. People already have this, but it's a place where you can go and just break shit. Like you just go and break a bunch of dishes and break. I want to go. There's one in San Jose. Let's go to it, Leah. Um,

Leah:

Okay. Oh my gosh. I wish you'd do like a girl's trip to

Willow:

yeah, totally. you know, you can bring your own stuff, or you could, they have stuff there for you. There's baseball bats, and you just shatter and break, and um, I always do, um, my anger release sessions more in the form of, of, um, right, I need to write to get in touch with the anger itself. So I get big pieces of paper, and I write like all the shit I'm pissed about and angry about and And pretty soon it's just scribbles on big pieces of paper and then I just shred up the paper and swamp around the room, you know, for a while and then go for a big fat run and then sit in the middle of it and meditate. Feels good.

Karen:

Exactly.

Leah:

It reminds me of, you know, what Charles always says is that suppressed rage suppresses passion. And so for a lot of people that Feel like they're so numb and they're disconnected from pleasure a lot of that pleasure gets dappened because of how much You know, hurt, anger, and grief we're sitting on. And so, like, really allowing yourself to, to dig that up. And not in the story as much as more like a somatic, physical experience. I think one of the things that Mama Gina really brought to my experience in her work was the music. Bringing music into helping you with that kind of getting in touch with those cathartic feelings. Um. And the other thing I thought was so unique that not a lot of people explore is the permission to brag, you know, where you got to like to your own horn and like, this is what's going great in my life. And this is something I achieved today. And, you know, and everyone responds with, well bragged, you know, and you, and you get celebrated instead of the fear of somebody going, God, she's full of herself. Um, It was, it was really beautiful to be in such a large community where that was oftentimes the first thing you did to greet each

Karen:

Exactly. Yeah, it was so interesting. I had done all that work, and then I came back to New England. I left New York right around the time that all the changes started happening in the culture, and I came back to New England, and a friend of mine said to me, You studied with Mama Gina for years, right? I said, yeah, and you took Tantra classes. I said, yeah. She said, would you be my sensuality coach? She was married for 24 years. She adores her husband, but it was like, Willow was talking earlier, it was kind of dead. It was kind of dead. So she hired me as a sensuality coach, and we did it. We did it. And she would come back every week and say, I tried this thing. You know, I would take some things from pujas that we did, you know, and I would take some conversational things like, find your voice, find your power in the bedroom, right? And I would, different things that she would tell me. Um, I helped them one night. I said, what was your relationship like in the beginning? And she said, Oh my God, it was so passionate. We're making love all the time, da da da. I said, and do you have a specific memory? She goes, Oh yes, we were in Paris and she's telling me this. I said, okay, so I want you to set up, I said, set up a candlelight event with your husband over one of the little round cocktail tables they had. And I said, and not in the bedroom. I said, just reminisce about what that was like. Well, they did that. They, and Candlelight, right? And they put on some soft music and they did that and they ignited this whole, like, then they went into the bedroom and had an amazing time. But it was, you know, it was those kinds of things that we were doing every week. And then she would take it and go, and she was struggling with her body image. So I was doing some pleasure stuff with her. And then she decided she didn't want anybody to see her body. Well, she was down in Florida and she went in the water. In her bikini underwear and her bra, and she was like, I was all over it. So it's the transformation of permission, I think, suggestion and permission and finding yourself right. And then I would have her brag to me about it. I would have her brag to me about it. So there's, you know, so there's, there's a,

Leah:

I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna pluck some of those, Karen. In fact, I want everyone who's listening right now, if you're with your partner, and you remember what falling in love was like. Tonight, have a conversation about remember when and go back and forth and just have an open ended conversation about what it was like for the two of you and feel all those wonderful brain chemicals again and feel your heart open. I'm going to do that with

Karen:

good, good, good, good. They were in the car one day, they were in the car one day, and so I'm telling her to put her hand, I forget because they were in the car, put your hand on your heart and then put your hand on his back, right? And then, you know, Apologize for all the pain that other women have caused you or whatever, right? They had this resonance. They were both in the car and they're both going, Oh my God, I felt it to my body.

Willow:

Ah,

Karen:

It was like, you know,

Leah:

they felt the circuit!

Karen:

exactly. So, you know, it's a kind, I mean, that's the kind of work that I really love doing. I mean, that, that's just so juicy. So, you know, yeah, yeah,

Leah:

it's so life

Karen:

is life affirming. And it, you know, the thing I love about Tantra is there is yes it can be wild and it can be fun and it can be all these things and it's also because you slow it down it's the giver the receiver and it's sacred. it's sacred. you know, there's something, yeah, something incredibly divine about it even and it's rewilding as we rewild, you know, yeah, yeah,

Leah:

You know, I I think something that I've heard you speak, um, frequently about is your journey coming to this as an older woman. And sometimes there's insecurities that come with that and there's breakthroughs that come with that. And there's also a certain sense of credibility and wisdom that other people, um, look towards so it's also a unique position Can you share with us a little bit about like the difficulties that you encountered? Feeling whatever that age block is and then also what you find to be so valuable and why it's so important that people Embark on this journey regardless to age because a lot of people will make that

Karen:

oh yeah,

Leah:

to not

Karen:

oh exactly. So when I first went to O Ming, okay, so that was the first thing before I got to Tantra and what you had to do there in this 15 minute meditation before you ever got in there, you're fully clothed, you're going into a room, you're meeting people, and I had to ask two different, two different men to be my partner for 15 minutes. One, one for 15 minutes and the second 15 minutes. I was terrified. I was terrified. I was older than anybody. I was the oldest woman in the room. The guys were in their 20s and 30s. Maybe a 40 year old even there. And I had to go up and ask them, Would you, would you like to OM with me? And I was terrified of rejection. Absolutely terrified. And only one guy over five years ever said no to me. One guy said no to me, that was it. All of them, they were all being trained too. Like you want to do this with other people, you want to, you know, but they were so ready and willing. And I became friends with a lot of them. It wasn't a love match, but I became friends. Then when I got into Tantra, you know, the Tantra guys were looking for young hot women. I mean, let's, you know, in my experience, they were looking for young hot women.

Leah:

what do they call them the

Karen:

Yes, I guess they were yoga bunnies and again, again, I was one of the oldest women in the room and people were not clamoring for my attention, but I had sessions with people that were so loving as a receiver and all of this taught me how to receive. And I needed Regina, Mama Gina used to say to us, for women, you need to receive and receive and receive and fill yourself up until you are at a point where you are ready to give. And that happened for me. I mean, I just received from these people for quite a long time. And then when I went for training, I was starting to get ready to give. But again, being in Tantra classes, you know, I'm the oldest woman in the room and all of this is my own mindset, mind you. It's my own mindset, like they're going to reject me, nobody's going to want to touch my body, oh my God, and none of that was true. None of it was true. And... None of it was true. It was the story. Talk about me teaching people how to tell their stories. This is the story we tell ourselves. And how do you unweave those stories? So that, as an older woman, was a big one. And then what wound up happening through the practice, I'm at a Tantra weekend. I'd already been through certification and Charles tells the men and the women to exchange numbers and just practice the sacred spot massage with each other. You're Tantra buddies. Just, that's it. You're a friend. You're a buddy. And this young guy, kind of a shy guy, we had talked for maybe five minutes during the thing. He took my number and Then he asked if he could come over and do the session, and he did, and he said, would you give me feedback? I said yes, and he was great, and then he said, can I come again? So he scheduled a couple weeks later, and then, can I come again? You know, and then after a while, what happened is he... So this was going on and then he wanted to come every week instead of every other week, right? And at one point, when I was fully dressed after the whole session because he was very appropriate about not crossing boundaries, he was about to leave my house and he said to me, can I kiss you?

Willow:

Oh.

Karen:

went, well, okay. He was way

Willow:

that!

Leah:

How do I feel

Karen:

He was, well, sure, but he was way, yeah, he was the age of my kids, right? And I'm going, oh my God. So, so I went, okay. Well, it was lovely. It was lovely and then, um, he went away to Europe for the holidays and he was in Amsterdam and there was, he was at a fire display, he was at a fireworks display and in the sky, the sky turned pink and there was a big heart in the sky and he took a picture of the pink and the heart and he wrote to me and he said, Happy New Year, my goddess. And when he came back, I said, do you want a relationship? And he said, no. And I said, do you want more time? And he said, I want more time with you. I love talking to you. I love spending time. Anyway, he became my lover for a year and a half. And I kept breaking it off because of my own head saying, he's way too young. What's the matter with you? You know, and, um, uh, another Tantra friend said to me, she was psychic. And she said to me, this young guy that's in your life. She said, he's a healer for you.

Willow:

Mm.

Karen:

letting them into your heart. Let them into your heart. And I did. And I went back and I told him that. And he said, Are you going to stop trying to kick me to the curb? And I did. And then when we ended it, he was engaged, he was starting to go out with a younger woman. It was fine. You know, he was so gentlemanly and so appropriate and so beautifully Uh, articulated the way he did everything. You know, and it wasn't just Tantra sessions. It was, let me plan. I want to take you out for a fabulous dinner and I want to take you out for your birthday and what can I do for Valentine's Day? I mean, he really, it was a relationship he created and he created it. He created it, but it was out of all of this energetic, physical body work that I had done as well, that I allowed it. I allowed it.

Willow:

That's such a beautiful example for for anyone listening who's like, I don't know about this tantric journey thing Like maybe I'm stuck in a relationship stuck, you know in a relationship where I feel like I can't explore that or or yeah I'm too old to start exploring that. I mean what kind of advice would you give anyone who's stuck in something that they think they can't begin the journey. Especially women who are, you know, starting at an older age like what, how did you find the courage inside of you? I mean, you're an actress and you're, you put yourself out there and you teach people how to speak up. Right. So you've got that zhuzh already, but like what inside of you had to shift?

Karen:

I needed, I needed support. Like, for people who come to you as coaches, for people who come to me as a coach, I needed support. I had a huge amount of support in the Mama Gina community. Right? I mean, I just, and I still do. They're my friends, you know, so, uh, some support, um, is helpful. I would say is helpful. If you are not ready to get support, listen to their podcast, Sex Reimagined. Listen to some of these other things and just take a step toward it. Like, I have found women my age, I have found women my age even saying to me, this younger guy wants to go out with me and you know, I don't think I can. And I'll say, well, you know, what's the age difference? Oh my God, you know, he's eight years younger. I'm like, Oh, no problem. Right. No problem. Um, but it, it's all of the helping people get over the mindset that they're locked in and just take one little incremental step. I mean, I, I haven't been dating in a while and so I went on a dating site and I'm just swiping right, swiping left, you know, starting to take the step and making a point, like I work at this little shop part time, making a point of talking to the men, sort of having fun with them, you know, step out into that. But I would say... Have a, have a friend help you get on a dating site, if, if dating is what you're interested in. For women to reignite, because postmenopause, sometimes it's hard to reignite.

Willow:

Yeah.

Karen:

Start really getting in front of a mirror for yourself. First, start loving this, and no matter what your size, what your shape, get in front of the mirror, and one of the exercises we used to learn, first find a part of your body that you love and honor it. You could write an ode to it, a poem to it, right? Then, get in front of the mirror in front of a part of your body that you don't love as well. And your belly, or your hips, or whatever, and really start to look at yourself and remember what we were taught in Tantra class was that if you have extra belly, extra whatever, which

Willow:

An extra handful. Better for

Karen:

extra handful, that those are, those are pillows for a lover. Those are pillows. Those are soft, nurturing pillows. So you start to love yourself, and I would, and, and, for women who don't even want to touch their yoni, I have often suggested, put your hand on your heart, and your hand on your yoni, and just hold her and honor her, you know. So, you know, depending on where you're at, you know, it could be self love, it could be starting to date, it could be, and also, if you want to go out and meet people at an event, bring a wingwoman, bring, bring a friend.

Willow:

That's a great piece of advice right there.

Karen:

yeah. Yeah,

Willow:

I use wing women all the time. Hahaha.

Leah:

Yes.

Karen:

right.

Leah:

Yeah.

Karen:

know I know Yeah, so those are those are some quickies, but you know, yeah Yeah, being an older woman has been a real it's been a challenge, but also kind of I brag

Willow:

Yeah.

Karen:

I Brag that I did it. I brag that a therapist friend of me said to me You have left no stone unturned,

Willow:

Mmm.

Karen:

and that's a fact, and,

Leah:

Yeah.

Karen:

it continues, I mean, it's not over. You know, I would like to have, I would like to have a lover now. He doesn't have to be 30 years younger than me. Um, I had one last summer briefly, but he wanted me to fall in love with him by the third date, and he was my age, and he was very insistent,

Willow:

He put the pressure on. Yeah.

Karen:

was very ambitious, a lot of pressure, and at one point we had an intimate moment, probably about the sixth date, we had a very intimate moment, and he's giving me pleasure, and then he, he's giving me pleasure, and he says in the middle of it, he says, I love you. And we'd already had this conversation, like, it's not, you know, and my, he said to me later, your body stopped, why did your

Willow:

Mmm.

Karen:

And I said, because you said, I love you, you know I'm not ready to say that, you expect me to say it back? And I said, it felt like a manipulation. So talk about, and I said it very gently, but I said it very specifically, talk about finding your voice in the bedroom, you know, um, but that's what it did. And I very gently, but nicely released him from relationship like two weeks later,

Willow:

Mmm. Mmm.

Karen:

Yeah.

Leah:

Yeah. What, what advice would you give to, uh, maybe a long term couple where she's really been frustrated with the way her partner touches and it's not really bringing her pleasure and she needs to say something when it's something as delicate as sort of a corrective or critical feedback. As from a communicative place, how does one speak their truth in order to get that need met in a different way? What

Karen:

I've, had a lot of women come to me and ask that question. And usually what I say to them, first of all, is don't do the correction. You could, I mean some people get to this advanced level, where you could make the correction in the bedroom at the moment. But generally what I, what I had done with my young lover, and I had a pleasure partner before him, uh, what, what I had done is have a separate conversation. Like let's say you're sitting on the couch, okay? And you're sitting on the couch, and you're talking about your lovemaking, and you first of all, it's the appreciation sandwich. So, what can you, what can you appreciate about him, you know, uh, and is there something, does he kiss really well, or when he holds your hand, or he caresses, anything like that, you know, I so love when you do this for me, I really appreciate it. When we get into the lovemaking and you thrust into me quickly. I'm not ready, you know, I need, I need more time, and I would appreciate more time, and I know that you're so great at this over here, that I would love us to experiment with taking more time. And then, and then, after you do that conversation, then you can close it out with another compliment. And I love that you're even sitting here on this couch having this conversation with me, you know. So I don't know if that answers the question completely.

Leah:

That's beautiful. Yeah, Sandwiching goes a

Willow:

I think

Leah:

way. Find something to approve of, make a request, and then

Karen:

Exactly. And tone of voice,

Willow:

a

Karen:

tone of voice.

Willow:

Tone of voice and like the right timing and, and being well resourced, you know, you don't want to be doing this when you're hungry, hangry and trying to get somewhere in the car, you know, it's like, like, like the, I don't know if you know those terms. Those two books, Karen, The Male Brain and The Female Brain, but I

Karen:

No, no.

Willow:

about them because I think they're like, everyone needs to read them. I mean, they're phenomenal. You know, it's like the single pointed focus of the male brain. We just have very different brains. And so if we understand, you know, how this different brain functions, what did I freeze?

Leah:

Yeah, it's gonna be recording on

Karen:

All right.

Willow:

If we understand how this different brain functions, then we can actually communicate with it a lot better. Not only, you know, gender specificness, but also like for that particular person, like what's important to them? What's something that they really Value. Um, is it integrity? Is it honesty? Is it fairness? Like what is it that they really value? And then also weaving that into your positive sandwich, you know, like how can you use their own words for them to actually hear what you're saying?

Karen:

Beautiful. Yeah, exactly.

Leah:

Well, in closing, Karen, what, what would you like to leave our audience with? What is something that you think people should know that would really enhance who they get to be as not maybe pleasured.

Karen:

I, in, in one of the workshops that I did, You know, we had to close our eyes and say, what is your intention in this life? And, you know, first I, you know, I put career things out and everything else. There was a, and all of a sudden it sort of exploded out of me. My name is Karen Fitzgerald. I'm an extraordinary woman, which we had to preface with, and I'm fierce for love. I want, I want people to love themselves. I want them to find love with another. I think we're such a lonely culture that. You know, and people are yearning for it. It's yearning. And so, the exploration of this, there's, there's a book I'm reading right now. It's a channeled book and it's called Making Love to God. And,

Willow:

I think I need to read

Karen:

yes, I'll, I'll,

Leah:

Sign me

Karen:

I'll send Leah the picture.

Leah:

We'll put it in the show notes.

Karen:

Exactly, And it, and it's not, it's, it's about sex, but it's not about sex. It is, it is about, like... Creating our bodies to self love, taking care of ourselves in such a way that we can invite it in, and it addresses Tantra, it addresses Tantra in the book, but it's, yeah, I just, for myself as well as others, I want us to love each other, and yeah,

Leah:

yeah. So say it again. I'm Karen Fitzgerald.

Karen:

Karen Fitzgerald, I'm an extraordinary woman, and I'm fierce for love.

Leah:

Hmm. Well, bragged Sister Goddess

Willow:

Love it.

Karen:

Thank you, Thank you,

Leah:

thank you, so much

Willow:

such a pleasure, Karen, to meet you and connect. Yeah.

Karen:

Thank you. It was delightful. And can I tell your audience how to reach me? Or do you put that in the show notes? So what happens? Okay, okay, so you can reach me and it'll look like it's a public speaking, it's public because it's under construction, my website, but it's also about in the bedroom. Okay, just so you know, uh, and the website is www. karenfitzgerald. com. F-I-T-Z-G-E-R-A-L-D, Karen Fitzgerald tv. tv. Uh, tv. It was supposed to be a TV thing, but so far it hasn't been So, uh, but yeah, Karen Fitzgerald tv and just contact me and we can set up, you know, a 20 minute discovery call. And, you know, I waive my fee because we get to know each other and see if worth it.

Willow:

I love it. Well, I can't wait to, um, ring you up and, and work with you someday when I'm ready to do my TED Talk.

Karen:

Thank you.

Willow:

I know, I know exactly where to go now when I'm ready for

Karen:

All right. I

Willow:

bit.

Karen:

know exactly. Exactly, exactly. And that's fun stuff. That's fun. When you get people with inspirational stories and you help them really find their message and really find the stories that go around that, it's, uh, it's fun to do.

Leah:

It's a thrill.

Karen:

so thank you both. This has been, and as I said, I'm going to say online, as I said to you before, I have listened to many podcasts about sexuality and all of that. And I know some of those folks and they're great people, but you two do something that's very special and very grounded and full of love and light and, uh, deeply grateful.

Willow:

Thanks, love.

Karen:

Yeah.

Leah:

And that's just, that's just a great reminder for all of you to please subscribe, follow, and leave us a comment. If you like this show, your five star review goes a long way in sharing this message with others. So on that note, love, love, love, love, love,

Announcer:

Now, our favorite part, the dish.

Leah:

It's Dish Time with Leah and Willow, and we're talking about Karen Fitzgerald.

Willow:

Yeah, it was so fun to get to meet one of your old, long time students, Karen, and just the journey that she's been on and all the work she's done with Mama Gina, all the work she's done on herself, you know, and what's opened up for her and how it's transformed her career path as an actress, as a public speaking coach, and I love what she's moving toward now and what she's opening up, this, um, you know, finding your voice. It's in the boardroom and the bedroom. I think that's fantastic.

Leah:

Yeah, you know, I, it was fun to hear a bunch of things I hadn't heard before. You know, this trip to India was really, you know, I went to India and had a pretty amazing bodywork session with somebody. I didn't know they were doing what they were doing, but it was one of those Holy Smokes experiences that was really transcendent. Um, I wasn't. I didn't know to expect that on that trip. I kind of felt like she sort of encountered something similar and I love that it was like it went right down to her yoni, this sort of Shakti experience of like from crown chakra right to the lower chakras that I had, you know, woke up and it didn't take a genital massage to do it. I really, I want people to know that that's possible. And it's not so easy to find someone who knows how to do that or legitimately can do that. Um,

Willow:

and I also think it's just, it's a matter of it being allowed to happen. The receiver, you know, it's like, yes, the giver needs to have skill of course, but also the receiver, I think, and not knowing that it, it's possible and not knowing that it can happen is part of the allowing the receiving.'cause if you're going into a session, you're. I'm going to have a Shakti wave run through my body and it's gonna, you know, you're looking for it. You're trying to make it happen and that's where we actually block ourselves so much is when we try so hard to make things happen.

Leah:

Yeah. And, you know, I'm assuming most people listening to the show knows the word yoni. But in case you just stumbled upon the show for the first time and you've never heard that language before, Karim referred to the word yoni many times. And that's another word for the female genitalia. Um, just to clear that up. I wanted to kind of mention it, uh, in the moment, but, um, you know, it didn't seem important at the time. Yeah. Yeah.

Willow:

Yeah.

Leah:

The other thing I hadn't heard before was, um, Oh, I lost it.

Willow:

Well, back to Yoni. Back to Yoni. The Sanskrit word means sacred space. It's not just your clitoris, it's not just your labia, it's not just your pussy, right? It actually encompasses your fallopian tubes, your ovaries, your womb, all your reproductive organs. So it is pretty much like the entirety of your creativity center, right? This is what you create new life with. And so, Yoni being this sacred space, this sacred temple within your body, it's a sacred place to create, uh, that which you want to create in your life. And so that's how we use it so much with the Taoist work and with the Tantric work. It's like, what is your intention? What do you want to see come to fruition? What is your, what is it And, In order to create, we need to let go of some things. So what do you need to let go of in order to create what's coming next in your life?

Leah:

Love it. It's so true. Um, I think that her journey, you know, I've, I've watched a lot of older single women come through these various sexuality workshops and there's often like a common insecurity about, am I in the right place? And, you know, that she, she spoke on, you know, insecurities that she had to encounter. And there's a part of me that. As I'm getting older and grappling with age and where we're headed with that, that feels a sense of sadness and grief that women have to encounter that insecurity because I can't tell you how many times I've watched women like Karen. Pick the youngest guy in the group to end up doing practices with and how they end up changing his life. Even though she's the one that gets to encounter all of the healing and then the awakening as a result. Like, I don't know that they know just how impacted those younger men are. And I have this, I've had this thought so many times that. Every young man of age should be studying with an older sexually awakened woman and what that influence, that positive influence, how that changes who he is as a man and how that affects who he gets to be as a lover and how that He's so supportive to the lives of whoever he's going to love, and I don't even think that's gender specific, whether that he's going to love a woman or a man, he's only going to be nurtured and has only become more mature and is only going to become more compassionate and is only going to understand the intricacies of sexual mastery by being influenced by someone who's got some years on him, who can show him the ropes.

Willow:

Yeah. Yeah. I think that, you know, in both directions, actually, I think one of the eldest men that I worked with in a training was probably in his late seventies or something. And then I've had clients who are in their eighties. So I, you know, I think there's, there's something, um, really It takes, it takes sexuality, it's sex reimagined baby, it takes sexuality from what we have always known it to be and what we think it ought to be and what it should be to, it's just a human experience, it's just as valuable as Sleeping, going to the bathroom, eating proper nutrition, exercising. It's like a human part of our functionality and it creates health. It creates, um, you know, one client calls it vitamin O. So I actually named a chapter in my book, Vitamin O. And it's so much more than the orgasm itself. It's like the oxytocin, you know, and the connection. That, um, hormone that runs through your body that helps you to feel more connected and open and receptive to the gifts that the universe is trying to give you. So I think there's probably a lot of healing for young men to be with older women. Um, there's probably a lot of, you know, mother healing that goes on and, and also just healing around the feminine. Like I don't have to, I don't have to man up. I don't have to be something that I'm not authentically am, you know, I can just be myself.

Leah:

Yeah, so I just want to like, put it out there, like, let's normalize this. Let's normalize, as much as we normalize older men and younger women, let's normalize older women and younger men and, uh, let that be a new normal that, you know, we can learn and grow from. So on that note, thanks Karen. This was fun. Thanks Willow.

Willow:

Love, love, love.

Leah:

Love, love, love.

Announcer:

Thanks for tuning in. This episode was hosted by Tantric Sex Master Coach and Positive Psychology Facilitator, Leah Piper, as well as by Chinese and Functional Medicine Doctor and Taoist Sexology Teacher, Dr. Willow Brown. Don't forget, your comments, likes, subscribes, and suggestions matter. Let's realize this new world together.

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Dr. Willow Brown

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Leah Piper

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Karen Fitzgerald

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