The Sex Reimagined Podcast

Lenerd Louw: Beyond Orgasm - Can Semen Retention Make You a Better Lover? | #95

• Leah Piper, Dr. Willow Brown, Lenerd Louw • Season 2 • Episode 95

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Imagine lasting for hours in bed, experiencing full-body bliss, and connecting with your partner on a deeper level than ever before. Tantra Teacher Lenerd Louw's offer’s men a roadmap to not only enhance their sexual experiences but also tap into their inner power and emotional well-being. Whether you're a curious beginner or a seasoned practitioner of mindful masturbation, this episode has something for everyone looking to elevate their intimate life.

EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS

  • The life-changing effects of practicing ejaculatory choice
  • How to achieve male multiple orgasms without ejaculation
  • The unexpected emotional healing power of prostate massage
  • Transforming sexual habits through a 21-day challenge
  • Building brotherhood and connection through men's groups
  • Partner support strategies for exploring new sexual practices

EPISODE LINKS


KING & QUEEN OF HEARTS. Leah & Willow's King & Queen of Hearts Intimacy Toolkit is on sale. Buy Now. 10% off Coupon: KINGANDQUEEN10.

THE MALE GSPOT & PROSTATE MASTERCLASS. This is for you if… You’ve heard of epic anal orgasms, & you wonder if it’s possible for you too. Buy Now. Save 20% Coupon PODCAST20.

THE VAGINAL ORGASM MASTERCLASS. Discover how to activate the female Gspot, clitoris, & cervical orgasms. Buy Now. Save 20% Coupon: PODCAST 20

LAST 10x LONGER. If you suffer from premature ejaculation, you are not alone, master 5 techniques to cure this stressful & embarrassing issue once and for all. Buy Now. Save 20% Coupon: PODCAST20.

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Leah:

It's that hour with Leah Piper, your host at Sex Reimagined, with my other host

Willow:

dr. Willow Brown. Today we interviewed a very special man in the field of sacred sexuality, a man named Lenerd Louw, a South African man who has been around the world and back. He actually left his life, his job, his country, his continent, he sold everything, he gave it away, and he bought a one way ticket to South America and journeyed around the world studying, learning, and healing, and awakening for five years. Through all of that, he now teaches men how to meet and process their emotions, how to get to know their inner feminine, how to align their hearts. power and businesses and how not to ejaculate so that they can last for hours in bed. He is an incredible wealth of wisdom. We had such a great time talking to him. He's got a book that he's sharing with you all. It's his free gift and you're going to want to check it out.

Leah:

Wow, Lenerd Louw, I just have to say, so refreshing to talk about ejaculatory choice with a man who's been practicing and teaches other men. This is such an important interview, an important concept. Don't worry, we're not telling you never to ejaculate again. We still want you to have pleasure. In fact, we want you to have even more pleasure by practicing ejaculatory choice. So tune in, turn on, and fall in love with Lenerd.

Announcer:

Welcome to the Sex Reimagined Podcast, where sex is shame free and pleasure forward. Let's get into the show.

Leah:

Welcome, Lenerd. We're so happy to have you here today.

Willow:

Yeah, we're going to talk about one of our favorite topics, which is ejaculatory choice. We're so excited to have a man on board to tell us more about this.

Lenerd:

Super excited to be here talking to the two of you. I've been really looking forward to this. Thank you.

Leah:

You know, I was looking at some of your information and looking at part of your journey, and I was sort of struck by, you know, you having this moment in time where you had to act, you had to do something, you had to change and you gave away all your stuff or you sold it, you, you changed locations and you go on this epic journey for, I think it's at five years, so tell us a little bit about how you got started on this path.

Lenerd:

Yes, I call it my rock bottom Clifton walk. Clifton Beach here in Cape Town, an unbelievable, beautiful spot, you know. And I was staying on the beach basically. And I was that stage very much in, uh, uh, in business and corporate and, um, running a, an insurance company in South Africa, CEO of insurance company. And, and I had fun in my days, but then the last few years, I just realized I needed to do something different with my life going forward. Um, And I distracted myself a little bit from the voice telling me to do the journey, the jump, you know, deep, deep journey in and to, to, to really, uh, clear out the old and make way for the new. And then on that day, after two, three, four years, when I walked there, I just couldn't see the beauty around me anymore. And it was a, it's a pretty magical place, you know, Cape Town and, you know, Clifton. And I just realized I've got, I'm so disconnected, so disconnected from myself, So disconnected from nature, from people. Yeah, so I just, I just jumped, you know. It looked like a jump to the outer. I resigned, sold everything, bought a one way ticket to Lima, Peru. And that became a five year journey, 35 countries all around the world. A lot of workshops, initiations, learnings. It's a tremendous, tremendous journey.

Willow:

When

Leah:

old were you at the time?

Lenerd:

Pardon?

Leah:

How old were you when you had sort of this midlife breakthrough, maybe?

Lenerd:

Yeah, I was, I was 49. I was a young, beautiful, fit, lean 49.

Leah:

Yeah, right on.

Willow:

And did you ever, did you ever imagine Lenerd that it would be a five year journey? I mean, cause I personally just took the leap myself two years ago. And, um, it's taking a lot longer than I thought it would. So I'm just curious if when you took the leap, you thought it would be that long of a journey.

Lenerd:

Well, absolutely not. I thought at least, let me do at least three months. You know,

Willow:

Uh huh. Yeah.

Lenerd:

and I thought at least three months, you know, maybe a year. And, uh, I mean, I didn't know what, what I was jumping into. I thought I was on my way to, to New York because I thought I was just bored of Business, this business that we were in, and I was doing, and I was looking at new innovations and new stuff in the world out there. Um, but the temperature, you know, for African to go to New York in, uh, in December, uh, January is not good. It was like super cold. I thought South America first. I just spent a few months there, then make my way in New York and then, you know, a few months later back, and it just turned, it just, everything changed, you know, so yeah, it,

Willow:

and so, wait. It just kept going, and you weren't, when you left on this, this life shifting journey, you were not really out in particular to become a sexual healer or coach around sexuality.

Lenerd:

If you tell me that, like, you know, ask me five, you know, how long is this now? 10 years, 10 years ago, uh, that you and I would be having this conversation about sexuality and men's sexuality where I came from, you know, what I did before previously in my life. I would have, I would have really laughed. I did not at all. It really just became a journey. Deep Inner Journey, and it was, I mean, it included a lot of stuff on spirituality, sexuality, spiritual sexual shamanism, but also crystal healing, energy, India, meditation, so much, but yeah, sexuality was a big central theme in it.

Leah:

Yeah, you know, when I hear you say, I went to Peru, I immediately think plant medicine. So was it was ayahuasca and some plant medicine kind of a part of your journey and and like what? Well, I'll ask that question. I've got a follow up question. I'm kind of famous for asking three questions at the same time.

Lenerd:

Perfect Yeah. So it wasn't, and what happened with me in South America, and that's where the spiritual journey in a way started, is I got sick with parasites. I went from a lean foot, 82 kilograms to 72 kilograms. I dunno whether that's in pound, but I can almost double it. So I lost losing about. Ten, uh, probably 20 pounds of muscle. I just, I really was, I was going through tough times and I was trying antibiotics and everything and it didn't work. And then someone said, well, try Ayahuasca.

Leah:

hmm.

Lenerd:

So that's how I came across plant medicine. And then I had this journey with Ayahuasca and then I realized, okay, wow, there's, there's, there's a lot more here. And I ended up in the five years doing four, all the four, all the four different, you know, plant journeys, you know, Psilocybin, San Pedro and Iboga also over the four years. So yeah, it actually became also quite a, quite a big teacher for me.

Leah:

I bet I bet I don't I don't think anyone can visit those Medicines and not have it be a big reality shift.

Lenerd:

Yeah.

Leah:

Yeah. So how did the whole sexual Aspect of this

Willow:

when did that

Leah:

that that's the shift you needed or wanted?

Lenerd:

Yeah, that's fascinating. So after the ayahuasca journey in, in, um, in Colombia, it was actually Colombia, not Peru, from Peru, I went up to Colombia, spent six months there. Um, and I ended up at the Lake Lagua Tirtlan in Guatemala. Um, and I was still suffering with a parasite and I came across someone there that Shamanic guy that said to me, you know, listen, someone around the corner can help me with emotional release, because that would help with, uh, with a whole, um, with the parasites. And I did that. And then she told me, Oh, by the way, there's a Tantra festival in Hawaii, um, in six months time happening in a big, uh, island Hawaii. Went to the Puna Coast and they're also doing a spiritual, sexual, shaman level 1, 6, 7 day journey there. And that could also really be helpful. So totally by coincidence. Yup. It's like it just happened. So then I just got on a plane flew to Hawaii and I wasn't even sure I didn't register for the course, I just arrived. I thought, let me check this out. I went to the tantra festival first time in my life and And it started with like eye gazing and I was like, wow, it was really new. I was like a really innocent boy in this world of spirituality, if you could call it innocent.

Leah:

You are a Tantra puppy.

Lenerd:

Yeah, I was a, I was a puppy, man. I was like doing this eye gazing, and I thought, I mean, the next hour, next evening, there was ecstatic dance, and there was this big sign up there, you know, you know, no alcohol, no drugs, and no talking on the dance floor, and I went, wow, how am I gonna dance without having a drink or something, you know? So, I I mean, now I look at that version of myself and I just have a smile because I, you know, do often get ecstatic dances. I can just, I mean, I, I, but it's amazing, you know, the conditioning of, of, of, you know, of life, you know, so, so yeah, so that was really just an expansion. And after the Tantra Festival, I just loved what I saw and then I went into the seven day journey. Um, and that was profound, you know, it was, it was on Tantra, it was in sexuality, but it was some, lots, lots. of other stuff also in it, you know, and I really met, I really met my inner feminine, you know, that's the point. There was so much learnings in the seven days, but I really met my inner feminine, um, and yeah, now why I just, after the course would walk on the beach, I write to my book about it on a date with my inner feminine, you know, and I really felt it so profound. And this from a guy that in Cape Town days, At the crazy drug, sex and Jacuzzi life there, you know, on the deck, you know, just me and two, three women having sex. You know, it was, it was like quite unconscious, you know, and it was always the outer feminine. It was always attracted to the outer feminine and the love women. And now I'm in Hawaii and all these beautiful women around me and I'm not connecting with any of them. I'm taking myself on a date on the beach. So it was super beautiful and interesting. And I wrote about it, I blog about it. And a lot of my friends thought in the rut and said, what this guy's losing it. But for me, it was a beautiful experience.

Willow:

and Hawaii is the perfect place to be connecting with your divine inner feminine. And so this is one of the things that you help, um, your clients, especially your male clients with is reconnecting or possibly reconnecting to their feminine energy. How do you work with people around that?

Lenerd:

Yeah, you know, most guys, like I was, just to start on the emotional part, are so disconnected from the emotions. So, I kind of start, you know, just to get the emotional body moving, for people to just connect in their emotions, you know, do emotional expression, release, and then start moving the emotional body, and then also, you know, And then the erotic body can also start, start, start going there. Um, and, you know, for me specifically, one thing, and I mean, I'll just jump straight in there, just one thing that was very important for me in that week long residential training is that we actually had a sacred spot massage, which is the male, male prostate massage. And it was, I mean, it was amazing, and I really connected with my inner feminine in that exercise. You know,

Willow:

I love

Leah:

very familiar with this practice

Lenerd:

thought a

Leah:

cool to hear how that comes together. Willow, you want to say something a little bit, give a little bit background on male sacred spot massage?

Willow:

It's a powerful practice. I've had men just absolutely puddle in my hands and completely watch their, uh, synaptic, uh, pathways in their brain and the rest of their body change before my very eyes. It's really powerful. There's a couple of different, um, places inside of a man's ass which is the the prostate and the g spot so um you know working with both can be it can not only create so much more profound pleasure inside of a man's uh orgasm but also just it can it can help Um, with that ejaculatory choice and it can really help him understand his inner feminine. I actually have another dear friend who, um, you know, started to have a sexual, a very heterosexual man started to have sexual relations with another man just because it was an exploration and it was something that, you know, he hadn't gone down that road before. And, um, he, after having that experience, um, Just said the way that he enters a woman now is completely altered and completely different.

Leah:

Yeah.

Lenerd:

hundred percent, you know, that was my experience, you know, it was a man I was, I was lying there with my, my legs open, feeling super vulnerable. And I, luckily I drew a woman as a partner, not as a man, that would have been just too much for me. You heterosexual man and all coming across this and I had this beautiful tiny woman asking me before she entered me, asking me permission to enter, you know, my hands with her finger and I felt so honored. I felt, I felt, I could, in that moment, felt how a woman would feel lying with her legs open and you penetrating her. It was, it totally changed my relationship with penetration. You know, it was, it It was, it was really profound, um, I mean to your question that you asked earlier, you know, I don't jump in with this with the guys, you know, that this is, and I mean, I don't specifically do body works. But I, um, I get, I really get them just really to you. To also, you know, you know, when the music is on, to drop into the feminine, to dance like, like, like a woman would, not just like a man, but to really flow with, with stuff. But I think really, for most guys, this is a, it's really a great experience to have. It's, that was profound for me. And after the massage, we were lying there and they, they put on like a sarong over me and the music was playing. And I promise you, I, I truly connected with, with a collective womanhood, you know, and I started crying. I just felt this, almost this hurt of the, you know, like the, the, sure that, you know, the, the hurt and damage that had been caught to, to the collective women. I could feel I tapped into collective womanhood and I went, wow. What the last few thousand years have done the patriarchy to women, obviously to men also a lot of damage. But I dropped into that space. So for me, it was profound, you know, where I was coming from left brain business, law or marketing, finance, and then you're now In a workshop on Hawaii and you're having this experience. So yeah,

Willow:

How, how do you think the world would change if, if every man on the planet had that experience, Lenerd, that you had?

Lenerd:

Ah, but I promise you I don't think there will be, I mean, that's a big thing to say, but I don't think there will be any wars. Honestly, I think, I think, I think there will be so much more compassion I think, uh, specifically men will be integrated in their masculine and feminine energies much more. Um, we were, because I did a number of these, I ended up doing 10 of them, because there's level 1, 2, 3, whatever, of these around the world, over 4, 5 years of these trainings. And we were used to, and I've been assisted in a few, and we were used to

Leah:

to ISTA?

Lenerd:

uh, yes, yes, it was one of the, yeah,

Leah:

Temple Arts, International School of Temple Arts, yeah. Yeah, of Temple Arts, yeah,

Lenerd:

yeah. And the guys were always joking, they would say that, you know, that the European Parliament, you know, that should be compulsory, like once a week or once a month, everyone there should go for a prostate massage, you

Leah:

That's right, that's right. Well,

Lenerd:

I really think it'll make a difference.

Willow:

Yeah.

Leah:

you bring up a really, a number of important points. One is, I think it would be hard for men to understand if they've never had the experience of being penetrated, the psychic magnitude that comes with being penetrated. And so there's something that happens when, um, uh, a woman has been, um, you know, penetrated over time with a lot of unconscious energy. Because the, the second chakra of the genitals is the most psychic of all the chakras. And so when we get penetrated, we are experiencing, if the man is unconscious, like, Oh God, I just want to relax. I just want to sleep. I just want to let go. I've had a stressful day. That kind of energy can then transfer. Like a depository to her nervous system. And then over time we see women is in a lot of marriages also where they stop being interested in sex. They stop caring about sex. They start resisting sex and it becomes less for them because it feels like it's always for their partner. And there's something so powerful that men can make a simple, simple, simple shift. And that is right before they penetrate to come up with a thought form for what you want to deposit into her system; love, beauty, belonging, safety, trust, vulnerability, passion, aliveness. And it just takes one thought form to transform the energy that comes from you to them. And so I think the same presence can then be afforded to penetrating a man. And I think this, this amazing profound experience of being a man and being penetrated, you get to feel what we call like this yin essence. And this thing opens inside of you. And I've never met a man yet who hasn't had that experience, who isn't more aware of, like you said, that, that moment of like penetration, of being able to understand what it feels like to hold that yin essence. I think when men hear about this for the first time, they're like, They do get scared. Like, Oh my God, what if I like it? What does that mean about my sexuality? Will I be gay in the morning? And so oftentimes that's a roadblock from wanting to have any ass play, quote unquote. And so I love hearing men talk about this because they need to hear from other men. That it doesn't change your sexual identity. It just gives you more access to more of yourself. Not only more inner reflection, more emotional, um, Material, information, connection, expression, but then there's a whole pleasure pathway through simple anal orgasms, that's also very different than ejaculatory orgasms. So with that all being said, what, what do you want to pick up and run with?

Lenerd:

I love what you're saying. I love about the intention of the penetration and what you deposit in it. So I think that's amazing. That's beautiful. That's, and I often find it, you know, I often find guys saying, you know, my My wife's not interested in sex anymore, and I always know, you know, it doesn't just start from the one, you know, so there's, there's Are you conscious, are you consciously penetrating, or how long is the lovemaking lasting, you know, is it, you know, is it, how is the penetration, you know, is it, is it, is it one or two minutes, and then, you know, she's not even warmed up, and then you check, you know, I'm just going all over now, but there's so much to this, um, and,

Leah:

Yeah, there's so much more than meets the eye. I think we tend to go, Oh, she's cold. It's her problem. It's her fault. She's got to go be fixed, when really it's not and no one's at fault. It's just a new way of relating to who we get to be together through intimacy and sexuality. And here's another thing. I'm curious to get your take on. Because there's also an unconscious way that I believe women penetrate men, and it's oftentimes the energy from the heart. If we could say that, you know, there's a masculine pull in a woman's heart, we lead from our heart, we want to penetrate the world through our heart, our breasts are the physical manifestation of that energy that wants to give and be a force field in the world. And we can be very unconscious towards men and how we treat them, our act, our way of entitlement, our, we can, We have our own way of sort of barging in, so to speak. And so I think when that woman that you worked with said, may I enter you. It's, it's again, it's like an awareness of consciousness of, you know, can I be with you in this way? Instead of just assuming that I can have and take.

Lenerd:

Oh, I love that, Leo. I think that's beautiful. And, um, yeah, no, there's this thing out there that men, you know, always are ready for sex and always want sex and then always should have sex and you know and I think that that for me ties in with exactly what you're saying you know so when a woman becomes also conscious with that in how she penetrates the man and with her heart and how she connects with him that Being, you know, it's false. It's not, it's not true. We, men and women, are not so, so different, you know, and it's not like, and I, I, I often say to, to guys, you know, honor your, uh, erection, honor your self, you know, if you're not ready for lovemaking. Uh, and if your body, let's say, is not ready for lovemaking, either your erection or your heart isn't, don't make love, you

Leah:

Yes. I love that. We call that honoring the wisdom of the wand. How do I know I'm supposed to be soft? Because I'm soft. How do I know I'm supposed to be hard? Because I'm hard. How do I know I want to have sex? Because I feel the desire for it. And it's the right time and it's the right person.

Lenerd:

Yes, exactly. And then sometimes you can even have, I've got one, one, uh, group of eight guys I spoke to the other day, and he was saying, um, and you know, you can even have the erection, but you know, he felt, wow, man, my Wife just fought me now with me the morning and she's like, I must get in and she just want to fuck me. And I said, I don't feel like that now because even I have an erection, I feel like I'm not being honored, you know, I'm just not going to be used. You know, and these conversations are not, people are not used to it. It's okay for women to say that, but for men to say that is kind of not okay. And so, but most guys, Don't say it, but you know, if you create a safe space for men to share, then a guy like that actually share it. And I said to him, well done, brother. Thanks before you're so vulnerable and so open. Because it ties to me exactly into what you're saying there.

Willow:

Yeah. And I think that it really provides men with a new sense of empowerment when they can say that to a group of men, you know, it's like a new sense of, of wholeness comes online for them. And, um, and you know, you're, you're teaching men how to, um, have, uh, orgasm without ejaculating so that they can have multiples is, you know, one of the, Powerful things that you teach men. And what have you seen are the benefits in the rest of their life? Not just like, okay, they become better lovers, but how does it penetrate into other sectors, their health, their work in the world, their relationships, their home life?

Lenerd:

Oh, well, I could talk for, for two days about this. Yeah, the benefits are so numerous. It's just amazing. And as you say, you know, just, uh, just, just in the context of, of the sex life, making love for longer, you know, so it's not just improving the sex life, but also then improving the intimacy and the relationship with, with their partners, because now, now they spend not two minutes or five or 10 minutes in this interaction, but you know, 20 minutes, half an hour, an hour, two hours. Now, I just love it, you know, imagine now having that sensual close time with your partner. Yeah. And you make love, and you rest, and you make love more, and there's eye connection, and all of that, the intimacy, the vulnerability, all of that spills over into the rest of the relationship, you know. After that, you go and cook some food, but that loving, the lovemaking still continues, you know, for me. You know, it spills over and you wash the dishes, but in between you, there's still this lovemaking happening because you've taken time with each other. And, um, and I really believe, I feel so strongly about it, I really believe as a man, you know, you, you have to learn some skills around, Being able to have choice around your ejaculation, to hold it, I don't like the word control, but to hold it, and to have choice around it, and be able to make love longer, because it brings so much more into your life. Because now, not just in the relationship space, but also you you become more aware of your body, you become more aware of your partner, and you know, all of this means you become more aware of life around you. So now you walk in the world, a day or two days later, and you're just more aware. Awareness creates awareness. You know, so now you become a much more conscious, aware man, and now you interact with the world with bigger awareness. God, I think we really need more aware, conscious men, you know, and be in their power, and be in their strength, and be in their masculinity, but also be connected to their heart, and to be in full awareness of people and the planet around them.

Leah:

yeah, bravo, more of that please. Um, you know, my theory on why that awareness becomes more alive for a man who doesn't ejaculate every time he makes love with himself or with a partner is because he stays full instead of empties. Like there's that, there's that place where when a man ejaculates, it's a wonderful reset for stress, which is why I think so many men end up being addicted to their ejaculation is because they're trying to get relief, but it kind of empties everything out. Whereas when you can play with your sexual energy and you, you. You know, Chinese medicine says that in order to create life itself, the energy has to come from the organs, the chakras, and the glands, to have enough life force energy to endow that sperm with life so that the chances of creating life are greater. So if you spin all that up, and instead of ejaculating, You reverse the polarity of that energy and you give it back to yourself. It goes back to the organs, goes back to the glands, goes back to the chakras, therefore creating regeneration in you. And I feel like it's that alchemy that provides a man with this more, uh, this bigger ability to stay present, to have more awareness, um, to feel his aliveness and vitality. And therefore, as a woman, he's more romantic. Like he's paying attention more. He's more present. We're getting extra text messages in between the day. And there's more, I love yous. And there's more like, The hugs are longer and the gazes are longer and, and the little pats on the butt are sweeter. All these little things just get richer and richer that I think add to that intimacy and add to that what you described is like the lovemaking doesn't stop because he doesn't go away because he emptied out. Does that make sense?

Lenerd:

It makes 100 percent sense. By the way, beautifully articulated. Um, definitely. I mean, I find, I'm just talking about myself, but also the guys, you know, I do these 21 day journeys with guys, you know, guided journey for 21 days. We don't ejaculate, don't watch porn, I mean, there's quite a lot to it, but, but, so what I get from the guys afterwards when I ask them what's happened is that it deepened their heart connection with their partner. Yeah. I mean, I had partners of guys saying to me, wow, what do you do with my hand Or what, what, what happened there? Because our heart connection is so much stronger and I can just personally talk, you know, and I make love and I don't ejaculate. I almost, I mean, it sounds amazing. I'm just going to say it as it comes up. I almost become like a woman, you know, I still want to cuddle, you know, I want to hold. I hold my, my beloved, my woman, my chick, you know, and I, I, I, you know, you know, roll over and sleep, you know, sometimes it's cool to do that, but I, I find I definitely, exactly, I, I like what you say, you stay full. So you're not empty, you're still full. I still want to cuddle, I'm still a hold her And then, you know, it's essential, and ten minutes later, energy takes us into another lovemaking. Um, so yeah, I think it's, I mean, I mean, the, the, the semen is this, I mean, we make life out of semen, you know. All this best part of our body goes into a drop of semen that creates life. a new life in this planet. So this is so powerful stuff. And I mean, I don't know what, I think the Taoist said something about, I mean, you guys are better than me, but like, I don't know how, how many cups of blood to take a drop of semen and how many, I don't know, uh, uh, maybe not track loads, but how many, how many track loads of food just to make the blood, you know, so, so much food to make the blood and so much blood to make the drop of semen, you know, so we, This is so crucial, this, and I love what you say, if you retain it in your body, you just, you know, so the guys are saying they're glowing, you know, the people are coming up, and actually people coming to them with business proposals, women are approaching guys that they would, them that they would have never done. I hear crazy stories.

Leah:

Yeah. Yeah! I think, um, I think it's the fountain of youth, Lenerd. I think it's the fountain of youth for the masculine. I think that life force energy going back to the body, going back to the nervous system, is what keeps men, Younger and alive and having more volunteer erections as they age and are going to it's what's enabled them to make love long into their old age. I really feel like it's one of the greatest sexual secrets, um, of our time for, for men to learn. I'm so happy that you're out there, uh, providing this for men because for Willow and I, we can coach men and we're pretty good coaches at helping men experience this phenomenon, but to get it from the masculine is a whole nother ballpark that I think her and I can never transmit. And one of the things that you said that I want to just highlight is there's this desire to be more cuddly, more affectionate. And I think what's important is that that feels authentic. And so what I hear you saying is that as a result of doing these practices, it's an authentic expression for you, that desire to hold and connect and have that sort of non sexual, but sensual intimacy.

Lenerd:

definitely, you know, when I was in my twenties, I mean, you hear these things, you know, Don't jump up, and you see it in some of the movies, South American movies, you know? Don't jump up, hold the woman, and then be like, I'll lie there, and it counts to ten. Okay, is this now long enough to hold her?

Leah:

Right,

Lenerd:

Because you know, it would be an asshole. Okay, now you made love. Okay, let's hold her, so she feels good. I mean, fuck, if you practice this stuff, it doesn't come from that place. It comes from, as you say, an authentic place. You really want to cuddle her, you know? You want to hold

Leah:

yeah, yeah, it's

Lenerd:

isn't it? Yeah.

Willow:

So, I'm curious to hear more about your 21 day journey because that's quite a short amount of time for a man to get proficient, I feel like, at this work. So, tell us more about how you guide them.

Lenerd:

Yes, so I actually have it as a self study and then I have it where you can do as a self study and you can do one on one with me, four Zoom calls. And then I have it as a guided, the third option, a guided where I've got 20 guys, last week with 20 guys on a call, and then four Zoom calls over the 21 days. And then I find that super powerful because the men keep each other also accountable and We've got a number of four or five, um, uh, agreements when you, when you, when we, we start. Um, and the first one is not to ejaculate for the 21 days. Uh, although, you know, and if you do, you're not getting shamed, you know, so it's, it's like, but, but yes, as you put your agreement in. The other one is not to watch porn for 21 days. I mean, it seems short, but some guys are addicted to porn. That's pretty tough to them. Um, and then, um, and then we've got a morning breathing thing, you know, not to look at your phone and, and, you know, and do, do a Kundalini fire breath and then a gratitude thing. And, you know, so it's quite a, it's structured and it builds up over the 21 days with videos on a daily basis. And I take them through the whole process of starting to feel energy. And as you say, we're like 21 days is, it's like, I probably got a level one. I want to do a level two. I haven't done that out, but it is profound what the guys start feeling in terms of energy and breathing energy up. Towards the end, we actually get into the microcosmic orbit, which is quite advanced for guys that have never done anything, you know, and in a way. Um, but you know,

Leah:

say, Lenerd?

Lenerd:

pardon?

Leah:

what, what do they say? Like, what, what do they, how do they describe the energy or the feelings that they're feeling as a result of the practices?

Lenerd:

Yes. I tell you that for me, the big thing that I've, especially this last group, this is the self pleasuring. So I, I, I, I teach them in a course, um, or talk them through it in terms of self pleasuring where you don't go to your genitals first, you just touch your arms. So it all builds up, you know, the first week is just, you know, you don't even go into genitals. Then the energy start building up and the guys start feeling, wow, this is not hectic, you know, they get super energized or super horny. And then I have like sexual energy integration exercises that they can breathe it up or tell him to go and run around the block. But the beauty is guys that have never been aware of, of, of energy, start feeling this energy in their body. And they start feeling that, wow, even not 21 days, but seven days or 10 days, fuck, there's something different happening.

Willow:

a difference. Yeah.

Lenerd:

Because, because most men, let's just be very direct about it, is since the age of teenage years, have ejaculated on a daily basis or every second or third day. And I believe there's this ejaculation hangover period, you know, it takes you four, five, six, seven days for it to replenish in your body. So most men, you know, they're 50, 60, that means for 30 years they've lived in ejaculation hangover.

Leah:

no idea

Willow:

never replenished.

Lenerd:

never, they never replenish, and that's why I'm so passionate to have the guys on the course, either my course or other courses, there are two, three other guys in the world. Not many, but there are two, three other guys also doing the same thing. Because I say to the guys, you know, you can watch so many YouTube videos, you can watch this beautiful video interview we're doing here, and you get it in your mind. But unless you go and do a journey with someone, unless you go through the practice of not ejaculating, for example, for 7 days or 10 or 21 days, you're not going to have this body experience. So, yeah, I think it's super important.

Leah:

I think, I think what's unique about what you're doing, Lenerd, is that it is a daily thing. You've got, you've given them a prescription of what they have to do each day and what they're looking for. I think in a lot of schools and trainings, we, we teach them the theory, the practices, the pressure points to help them get, get control, but to have some accountability where they're actually practicing a method every single day and then that builds up over time and their awareness for what they're looking for has. Those subtle shifts, um, is a great way to support men having an embodied experience where they can be successful with this. Because what I experience is that many men, they kind of, they give it a try, right? They try it once. Oh, they, the technique didn't work. They still ejaculated. It was now anti-climatic.

Willow:

Was not a good orgasm.

Leah:

Wasn't for me. You know, or they might try it twice, you know, they believe in the theory, but they don't actually take it into their body and it's one of these things you do have to practice in order to discover it's magnitude.

Willow:

Yeah.

Lenerd:

And if you go play football or rugby or golf, I mean, you

Willow:

You got to practice. Yeah, exactly.

Lenerd:

practice. It's not just like you read a book and then now you're a handicapped golfer. You know, you play a lot of golf to get to that point. Football or

Willow:

I love, I love the

Lenerd:

yeah. And what I find is that the container is so powerful that that's the one thing about men, I tell you, they are, if you put them in a circle like this, it changes because the guys are then supported by the brotherhood. Plus there's also a little bit of a pressure and a nice way about, bit of, you know, wow. Okay. you know, given my agreement, I'm gonna go. So, so I think that is a critical part at accountability being witnessed because now it's not so easy to, after 5 days. Well, I'm not going to ejaculate because now the zoom call next Tuesday when you share you have to now say you did,

Leah:

I don't want to let down the group. Yeah. That, that totally has a,

Willow:

Yeah. Or I don't want to be the one guy who, who did ejaculate.

Leah:

blew it off.

Willow:

a little bit. Yeah. I think, um, I think having like a men's, there's more and more men's groups coming, you know, online these days. And I think it's so Vital and so powerful for men to have that support. And as you said, Lenerd being witnessed by each other and without judgment. Because there's so much judgment amongst everyone in the world, but especially amongst men and competition and, you know, self judgment and self criticism. And all of that can just really, when you're building a container, like what you're building, Lenerd, you can really, Keep all of that out and just be honest with yourself and then be honest with others about what you're going through and what you're experiencing and the shift that you're having. And I think that is just one of the biggest gifts that we could give to any human being really on the planet.

Lenerd:

I tell you I often say to say that after these courses I say I wish there was some woman as flies against the wall. Yeah. To hear the vulnerability of these guys when they share. Good God, I mean, I get blown away. At the moment you put like 20 guys in a circle and they feel safe. And obviously there's a confidentiality and you know, we have some agreements that there's one of the agreements, you know, you know, this is confidential. The sharing and the openness and discussion from between the guys is like, yeah, it's, it's, it's really beautiful.

Leah:

So I've got a two fold question. One is, how is the pleasure different, like, non ejaculatory orgasms, because I think a lot of men hear this and go, wait, what do you mean? You want me to fucking give up my ejaculation? That's how I come. Are you crazy? Why would I ever do that? So, like, to talk about how you get more pleasure, not less, and then, um, Um, and then I'll, I'll, I'll save the follow up till after.

Lenerd:

Also, can I switch the light on just because I think it's, the sun, the sun is going

Leah:

light on you, Lenerd. Yeah.

Lenerd:

the sun is going down just for you guys.

Leah:

Lenerd is, um, is calling us from South Africa, as he said in the interview. So, different time zone.

Lenerd:

All right, so otherwise I'm going to sit in pitch dark here. No, no.

Willow:

Now we can see you.

Lenerd:

Also, that's better. Otherwise, we'll just get darker. Yes, that's you know, that's the first reaction from the guys is exactly that is that Hey, man, the ejaculation is pleasurable. Why would I want to give that up? And are you crazy? And then when they start realizing that by breathing this energy up in their body, they can feel so much more pleasure through their body. Now, obviously that doesn't happen on day one, but they start feeling, you know, that moving this energy, they can, you know, they make love for a longer period, you know, still have the beautiful sensation in your, in your lingam, in your cock, while, whilst you're making love, you know um, and then they start, uh, dropping into that and then feeling the, the orgasm in the body and that Tantra. I like, I prefer not to say orgasm, but almost like the feelings and that in a, in a, in a, in a sensation of energy moving in their body. Then they start, once they start experiencing that, they're like, wow, there's more to it. And then, you know, some of the guys get to a point where you actually have this almost like genital orgasm, but without the ejaculation happening. You know, that's, that's, that has been profound for me. You know, I just happen totally by accident with me 20 years ago. I mean, I didn't even know about Tantra. I didn't even know about Taoism 20 years ago. I just started having these orgasms, not just the full body orgasms with energy in my body, but also, also like feel as if I have ejaculated, but nothing actually comes out. It's just like just energy coming out.

Willow:

Hmm.

Lenerd:

so I, I tell them about that and I'm cautious because you'd also don't want to put this massive thing up there that they feel they now need to achieve. But the guys, the guys start understanding that, wow, there's a bit more to it than just the ejaculatory thing. And then as the course goes on guys start experiencing it and then some guys share in the circle and say wow man this crazy thing happened with me last night. And then I think it's a it's a slow process, but I think it's a massive challenge I think I don't know I'm guessing but I think probably 90 percent 95 percent of the planet doesn't know even about what we're talking about No, I don't know this 95 99 But the vast majority don't know men or women and I think it's because it's in a way a difficult to to get the point across, you know, because it has to be a body experience in a way,

Leah:

I think it's because it's, um, It goes against the way our biology is wired. Our biology, our instinct from this animal place, it goes, Come, come, populate the planet, make sure we survive. And so we feel compelled biologically to have this expression of an ejaculation. So when men are learning this, when women are learning this, it's anti, it's, it's not intuitive. They have to actually, Reverse, they have to grasp that moment of consciousness, make a decision before they go into it to go, No, I want to find out what this is. No, I want to see what other people are talking about. Why is this important? Why is it bigger? Why is it different? And you can only do that through multiple experiences, but then once you harness that choice, Then the doors start to open. And what a lot of men have told me regarding like, how is it different? Well, not only is the after effects, I think that's the biggest difference is how you feel energetically, the vitality, the awareness, the consciousness. But in the moment of pleasure, it's like, it's like climbing peaks. It's like you get to these high levels of arousal, but you don't go over the waterfall. And then you cool down and then you can go to another high point of arousal. And it's so thrilling. It's so exciting to stay awake in those moments of high, high pleasure, arousal states. And then you come to realize, well, yeah, going over the waterfall is great, but then it's over.

Lenerd:

Yes.

Leah:

so you get to like harness peak states of consciousness, pleasure and sensation. And then that carries over. So I think we, I think the hard sell on helping men make a choice to give this a shot is that thing They think they're giving up something

Lenerd:

Hmm.

Leah:

But what they don't realize is that what they're picking up is even better because I've never met a man yet Lenerd who goes Yeah, I think I'll go back to the way it was. They tried and they're like, I'm this is this is it. I have more pleasure than ever before,

Lenerd:

That's exactly it. And that's what's so nice to hear that from other men, you know, when they actually say that. I think that's another, not just me saying it, not just you saying it, you know, you guys saying it, it's like the men that then experience it. That's beautiful. That's why I interview the guys afterwards and we put it out. And yeah, I know, definitely. Yeah, it's,

Willow:

I'm so curious, um, what like age range and what kind of men, like, what's the demographic who tends to come to you and work with you? I

Lenerd:

You're gonna laugh. My, my, uh, the, the group before this group, the youngest guy was 22 and the oldest 70,

Willow:

love it. That's great. Such a range. Yeah. And I bet the 22 year old was like, oh, thank God I'm learning this now. And the 70 year old was like, how come no one ever told me this earlier in life?

Leah:

Right.

Lenerd:

Exactly. In the 22-year-old, he's sharings in a circle. It's actually a friend of my son. He read my book and he was like, wow. I know my son is too close to home to do it, you know, he isn't. But, uh, his friend did, and he heard it, and I heard about the course, and I gave him quite a big discount on it, you know, under 25, I'd do it under 12 for 25, a big discount, and he was on this course, and this guy was actually an inspiration for so many other guys. At the age of 22, and he was already saying, he was saying to me, he called me and said, I read your book, because he knows me, you know, from, you know, from my son. And he said, you know, I don't think I'm doing too badly. I make love for 15, 20 minutes, but I read stuff here, and I think I may be missing something, and I would like to check it out, and then he gave me this course, and, ah, it was so beautiful to hear his sharings, and the stuff happening there, and, and that really, the young guys, I don't know, it's just so beautiful for me to have the guys in their 20s on this, and, yeah, damn, man, we should learn this all in

Leah:

much hope, doesn't it?

Lenerd:

It gave me so much hope, you know, we all as boys should learn this stuff, you know, in our teens, you know, because the body gets so programmed, as you say, you know, it's biological and, you know, and porn, you know, the ejaculation is all what it's about, and as a teenager you're hiding it. So if we can, but I mean, that's the past, let's go into the future. To bring it to more young people. That's so amazing. You guys see, so it's a wide range. It's quite a range from people. 20, 30, forties, fifties, sixties. Yeah.

Willow:

all right. So if you're, if you're a male out there and you're looking to really learn how to do non ejaculatory orgasms, have multiple orgasms, have really profound ejaculatory choice, and get in touch with your inner feminine, then go hang out with Lenerd. Tell us how they can find you.

Lenerd:

Uh, www.LenerdLouw.com is the website. Okay. Wow. I have to spell that. It's, it's Lenerd Louw, but it's L-E-N-E-R-D-L-O-U-W.com.

Leah:

Yeah. We'll have it in the show notes too. And I believe you have a free gift for our audience.

Lenerd:

Yes, I am so, so excited to talk to, to guys in the States. I mean, I talk to a lot of people in South Africa and Europe. A lot of people in Europe, it was four months in Europe now and presenting at festivals, but it's amazing to, to be in the States. I just, I just think it's everywhere all needed, but I think it's so needed there. And I, I, yeah, I would love to give to my, to your listeners and my, a free copy of my audio and ebook. We put the link in the description. It's a free download.

Willow:

I love a good audio book. Can't wait. Did you read it? Did you, were you the reader for your audio?

Lenerd:

didn't actually. No, I didn't actually. I laughed towards people and said I should have, but you know. The intonation and the, so I got a really brilliant guy, Peter Noble, he won the audio awards actually two, three years ago in New York for Forward for Audio, it was the Oscars of audios. So I got the best guy

Willow:

Amazing. Amazing.

Leah:

him. Okay. So the book is called Jump, an Epic Soul and Sex Adventure. So be sure to pick that up. Of course the link is in the show notes and I've got one last, uh, question to end this interview, uh, Lenerd. And that is. How can women support their partner, or it doesn't have to be a woman, how can partners support their partner in the practice of ejaculatory choice?

Lenerd:

Oh, super, super important, yeah. So in my course, I actually get the guys on, on day two, three, four to discuss with their partner what they're doing. And then actually to show some of the videos for them. It is, it's super important. So for a woman, if you're a partner, if you're doing this, your partner must know about it. And she also has to learn a bit about what this is about. There's so much about this, you know. And, phew, we could talk about that for so long. Because in the lovemaking, So you start learning, you know, when also to slow down, especially when he's starting learning at the point when he's close is to also slow down and stop when she feels since you can massively support him. And then also, you know, um, and that is quite a discussion. So it's a discussion to have in a nice gentle way because women has also got a attachment to ejaculation because it's sometimes built to the desirability, linked to the desirability. So, so just to bring it across, this, this is the reason for that. And, and also, you know, now we can maybe put too detail for the question, but there's also, you know, subconsciously women can also draw the, the, the, the semen out. And I mean, I, I, I believe you could be as good as you are. If a woman wanted to draw that semen out, it's very

Leah:

Oh, semen chasers.

Lenerd:

See, well, exactly. I mean, my previous partner, we, we, I was pretty good at that. And we, and I had this discussion with her. She said, Oh, wow. I wasn't aware. And I went, no, I'm sure it's just subconscious. The next time we met love, it was slightly different. That subconscious pull. So this is just a pointer. It's not enough time to talk in detail about it, but it's a pointer why it's so important for both partners to talk about this. So the women, the partners are a huge support in this.

Leah:

Big time.

Willow:

Yeah. It seems like really important that women would need to, um, kind of keep their finger on the pulse of the energy of what the man was experiencing.

Leah:

Yeah. And do not take it personally. He's not not ejaculating because he doesn't like you or isn't desire. You're not desirable. All of these things and ways women can make up a story that it's about them. It's not about you. It's about him growing in his mastery. And we want to celebrate that and, and empower that. Thank you so much, Lenerd, for being on the show. We can't wait to have you back.

Lenerd:

Wonderful. Great. Thanks for the time. I really enjoyed it. Lots of love.

Leah:

Love, love, love.

Announcer:

Now, our favorite part, the dish.

Willow:

Okay.

Leah:

Oh, yes, oh, yes, oh, yes, I'll have more of that, please, Lenerd. Ejaculatory choice.

Willow:

That was a great interview with Lenerd. I just, you can tell that he's really walked his talk and that he just gets lit up by teaching other men and guiding them and seeing them go through these transformations that really mastering this sacred sexual technique requires.

Leah:

Yeah. And I really love his 21 day process. I like that he slows them down. You know, I like that he's having them build awareness of different parts of their body and like bridging the energetics to this. I think he's doing a really interesting job. And I love men gathering and getting vulnerable and cultivating trust with each other and being open, I feel like it's sort of an epidemic in our culture for a lot of adult men are so lonely. And then once they start getting to middle age and they've had their first divorce and their kids don't want to talk to them, I mean, they're so alone. Where, where women, I feel like have these connections that we invest in throughout a lifetime. And I feel like once a man kind of gets through that first 25 years of his life, he doesn't have as many guy friends. And it really, it concerns me quite a bit. I think about it quite a bit.

Willow:

You do. It's a thought that keeps you up at night. Yeah.

Leah:

It does. You know, I listened to an NPR episode once about this because the suicide rates are the highest among middle aged white men. Um, And it's staggering. And, and I believe it's due to this sense of aloneness and not belonging. And they get married and they invest all their energy into the kids and the, and the partner, the partner becomes the only friend, you know, and they might be friends with other couples, but they doesn't have that BFF like he did when he was seven years old, you know, and women keep those BFFs most of the time. So I think there's a connection to that. And when men can talk about like conscious sex. It evolves

Willow:

so much closer together. Yeah. Cause first of all, they'd never really got to talk about sex in a conscious way to begin with. And then now they're not only are they talking about it, but they're transforming, like they're experiencing something they have never experienced. I think that's one of the really powerful things that Lenerd brings together with, um, with the groups of men that he works with is the opportunity for them to, uh, articulate what's going on for them. Because when you actually speak out loud, a physical, spiritual experience that you had last night or a few days ago, it concretes it more into your cellular body so that you actually own it more and you become more empowered around, um, your, your ability, your, and your confidence grows. I think that's probably one of the biggest things that I would imagine that his men walk away with is just a lot more embodied confidence.

Leah:

Yeah. And being in touch that, that, that, that goes with that embodied awareness that you were just talking about. It's having this emotional connection to themselves where they start to not only understand what they're feeling, but then can articulate what they're feeling, which I think it's what women are. Often feel like we're missing or that we crave. It's, you know, I want to know what's going on with you. And I think a lot of male partners don't always know how to express the, the feelings, the sensations, you know, in a way that can bond them. You know, I think, I think there's a disconnect sometimes, like we're speaking two different languages and it sounds like through some of these practices, they're getting in touch with a certain part of their emotional selves that adds to the connection and the intimacy. with a partner. I mean, how can it not?

Willow:

Yeah. Yeah. So powerful and just totally transformative for the relationships that these men are in. I love how he's like, I hear from the women and they're like, what did you do to my partner? Wow. He's so much more connective and alive. I mean, ultimately that's what we all want is to be seen and to be acknowledged. And it does require slowing down and looking deeper within yourself to be able to do that with someone outside of you.

Leah:

Now, the good news for our audience is that we have a course that is all about, uh, ejaculatory control or choice. We've got a course that's all about this phenomenon that we, that we, that he brought up at the beginning of the interview, which is the root chakra work or the prostate massage and the emotional release that can happen there and the orgasmic potential that is alive there. And so we really encourage people if you, if you want to deep dive into what the whole Anal pleasure potential is for penis owners. It's, it's a great, easy to work through course. It comes with all sorts of, um, eBooks and course materials and, and the last 10 times longer is, is, is exactly on this topic that we want men to feel empowered and that they've got a lot more range when it comes to pleasure and mastery that your dad never knew to teach you. He didn't know this information.

Willow:

Exactly. So let's, for those of you who are listening and want to grab those courses, we'll give you a little, um, special discount code.

Leah:

Okay, so we'll have the um, the code in the show notes.

Willow:

All right, y'all. And if you want to find Lenerd, you know where to find him on his, on his website and, um, check out his book. I think you're going to love it.

Leah:

That's a wrap! Love, love, love!

Announcer:

Thanks for tuning in. This episode was hosted by Tantric Sex Master Coach and Positive Psychology Facilitator, Leah Piper, as well as by Chinese and Functional Medicine Doctor and Taoist Sexology Teacher, Dr. Willow Brown. Don't forget, your comments, likes, subscribes, and suggestions matter. Let's realize this new world together.

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Dr. Willow Brown

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Leah Piper

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Lenerd Louw

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